General Skating Chat

[EisElle]

1 minute ago, kaeryth said:

I think I remember that Yuzu's StSq were constructed prior to a rule change for step sequence levels in the 2015/16 season. So he struggled to get to level 4 mainly because of that rule change. And honestly, I would give Chiddy a level 4 for his StSq always (unless he trips or falls during the StSq LOL). Now, 4CC SP... I'm not quite sure what happened here (someone who knows StSq scoring pls help... ) but wasn't judging all around all over the place in that comp?

I remember that too, but he had a whole team to deal with the rule change, why it didn't bothered Javi for example? It's possible that, Yuzuru being more picky about matching to the music and all, he thought the "modified" stsq didn't felt as natural and fitting as the original ones, hence the struggles, but yeah, it's really strange.

Now I'm worried for the new rule change, I hope he doesn't loses levels again.... please Yuzu and Yuzu's team, don't give anyone reason to pull you down!

 

About 4CC I don't know if the tech panel too was all over the place... the judges certainly had a lot of fun...even if they did give one of the criminally few +3s to Yuzu's 3A...one of the criminally few +3s to Yuzu's jumps in general.

God, every time I think about what criminal stingy scores some of the best jumps ever (of all times, not just by Yuzu) have got all past season...I'm still so salty

[kaeryth]

2 minutes ago, LadyLou said:

I remember that too, but he had a whole team to deal with the rule change, why it didn't bothered Javi for example? It's possible that, Yuzuru being more picky about matching to the music and all, he thought the "modified" stsq didn't felt as natural and fitting as the original ones, hence the struggles, but yeah, it's really strange.

Now I'm worried for the new rule change, I hope he doesn't loses levels again.... please Yuzu and Yuzu's team, don't give anyone reason to pull you down!

 

About 4CC I don't know if the tech panel too was all over the place... the judges certainly had a lot of fun...even if they did give one of the criminally few +3s to Yuzu's 3A...one of the criminally few +3s to Yuzu's jumps in general.

God, every time I think about what criminal stingy scores some of the best jumps ever (of all times, not just by Yuzu) have got all past season...I'm still so salty

 

Yeah, when they took away anonymous judging I thought scoring would get better but I was a fool to believe that . Tech panel is very suspect as well. And this is not just Yuzu but a lot of other skaters as well (Chiddy should've broke 100 in his GPF'16 SP - I'm salty about this).

[EisElle]

I can kind of accept (though sometimes it'is really hard) some bigger variability in pcs scoring (despite those still having some nice technical guidelines), but the tech part, goes included, should have a little more objectivity. I'd even be in for giving tech panel more power, but tech panels can't always be trusted either...so it really always goes back to the human material you have (as in professional training and ethics).

As for all things, you may have the best rules (which for fs is sometimes a bit questionable) but if you don't have people applying them, they're totally useless.

 

(my STEM background kind of makes me always a bit wary about the scoring part of judged sports. Of course someone can always find something to criticize even when judging is actually good, but it's when experimental evidence is being total disregarded that it really ticks me off and I start grumbling and grumbling endlessly aaand I think I'm always repeating the same things over and over again, sorry )

[sallycinnamon]

 

35 minutes ago, kaeryth said:

 

Yeah, when they took away anonymous judging I thought scoring would get better but I was a fool to believe that . Tech panel is very suspect as well. And this is not just Yuzu but a lot of other skaters as well (Chiddy should've broke 100 in his GPF'16 SP - I'm salty about this).

 

If there are no consequences of the scoring, then the abolishment of the anonymous judging doesn't change anything, unfortunately. Transparency doesn't mean anything if the accountability of the judges is non existent.

I don't know if anything will change in the future but we've seen lots of questionable scorings during the last season, so I'm not optimistic either.

[xeyra]

28 minutes ago, sallycinnamon said:

 

 

If there are no consequences of the scoring, then the abolishment of the anonymous judging doesn't change anything, unfortunately. Transparency doesn't mean anything if the accountability of the judges is non existent.

I don't know if anything will change in the future but we've seen lots of questionable scorings during the last season, so I'm not optimistic either.

 

I know someone should have been made accountable for that 0 to the last minute 3A at 4CC H&L. Or whoever gave a 0 or +1 to his 3F anytime in the later half of the season, when Yuzu even added a twizzle exit.

[sallycinnamon]

42 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

I know someone should have been made accountable for that 0 to the last minute 3A at 4CC H&L. Or whoever gave a 0 or +1 to his 3F anytime in the later half of the season, when Yuzu even added a twizzle exit.

 

Yes, that Mexican judge.

 

Fortunately, no one gave Yuzu a 0 to his 3F in the second half the season. Last time he got one was at SC.

+1 is bad enough, though...

[xeyra]

27 minutes ago, sallycinnamon said:

 

Yes, that Mexican judge.

 

Fortunately, no one gave Yuzu a 0 to his 3F in the second half the season. Last time he got one was at SC.

+1 is bad enough, though...

 

Good to know not even the Mexican judge was that blind. 

[Murieleirum]

 

You can find 4CC Step Sequence here. I put it at half the speed (even if I had already seen it and didn't remember anything being different than the other times he skated it). Luckily, the camera almost always follows Yuzu's feet. 

Honestly, the only thing he did different was the layback during the zusa. He spared it, I'm not sure why (he skipped biellman for the FS too), but that has to do with 'upper body movements' which, like someone has already said in the previous comments, can be added to any kind of step, and aren't mandatory everywhere. Maybe they got salty because Yuzuru always did that sexy layback during the zusa and decided to lower the overall level of the step sequence?! But that would be criminal nontheless.

[sallycinnamon]

19 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

Good to know not even the Mexican judge was that blind. 

 

She gave it a +2 ;-)

She must have blinked during the 3A...or she was amazed by YOLOing the axel and accidentally hit the 0 button...

 

3 hours ago, xeyra said:

Bringing this here because I love when people do these analysis:

 

 

The FS 3F graphic is probably what my heart looks like whenever Zuzu skates. 

 

I like that the flip was not called at all during the whole 2011/12 season.

And that it only got -GOE twice since the end of the 2013/2014 season.

 

Clear edges or not...the 3F has the highest success rate (even if it doesn't make too much sense - he jumped the flip 47 times, while the axel 130 times at competitions. And the rate difference is only 1%).

[xeyra]

19 minutes ago, sallycinnamon said:

 

She gave it a +2 ;-)

She must have blinked during the 3A...or she was amazed by YOLOing the axel and accidentally hit the 0 button...

 

 

I like that the flip was not called at all during the whole 2011/12 season.

And that it only got -GOE twice since the end of the 2013/2014 season.

 

Clear edges or not...the 3F has the highest success rate (even if it doesn't make too much sense - he jumped the flip 47 times, while the axel 130 times at competitions. And the rate difference is only 1%).

 

Technically, he jumped the 3F a lot less times than that if one were to count his 3F(e) as sorta-Lutzes. 

[Dori6886]

I'm really curious why he got level 3 in SP in Boston. If lvl 4, it would be new WR 

[Murieleirum]

39 minutes ago, Dori6886 said:

I'm really curious why he got level 3 in SP in Boston. If lvl 4, it would be new WR 

 

He's definitely gonna win that lvl 4 this year around 

[SparkleSalad]

1 hour ago, Murieleirum said:

 

You can find 4CC Step Sequence here. I put it at half the speed (even if I had already seen it and didn't remember anything being different than the other times he skated it). Luckily, the camera almost always follows Yuzu's feet. 

Honestly, the only thing he did different was the layback during the zusa. He spared it, I'm not sure why (he skipped biellman for the FS too), but that has to do with 'upper body movements' which, like someone has already said in the previous comments, can be added to any kind of step, and aren't mandatory everywhere. Maybe they got salty because Yuzuru always did that sexy layback during the zusa and decided to lower the overall level of the step sequence?! But that would be criminal nontheless.

 

It is a bit different, I think. I can't side-by-side it on this machine but compare the twizzles from GPF with 4CC. 

[moni]

I think the reason Yuzu got Lv3 in Boston and 4CC is that he made a small mistake during some of his turns. Probably wrong/unclear edge or putting free foot down too soon or similar thing. Because of this, one/some of his turn/turns was/were not counted. Right now I can't tell the exact moment but maybe later when I have time I will watch it in slowmotion and check every turn carefully. It is something you can't notice in real time unless you are really an expert.

 

Why do some others get Lv4 so easily? 
It depends on a particular skater, some are just very good at steps (Patrick, Shoma...). But in general, many skaters don't do step sequence at such a high speed/such deep edges/so much upper body movement as Yuzu, thus are less prone to make a mistake and it is easier for them to do it more precisely. 

 

[Murieleirum]

15 minutes ago, moni said:

It depends on a particular skater, some are just very good at steps (Patrick, Shoma...). But in general, many skaters don't do step sequence at such a high speed/such deep edges/so much upper body movement as Yuzu, thus are less prone to make a mistake and it is easier for them to do it more precisely. 

 

Totally agree. When I watch Yuzu's step sequences, they are completely part of the coreography, but when I watch others, sometimes they are closer to technical exercises.

There's a video out there in which Nobunari Oda and Shizuka Arakawa explain why Yuzu's step sequence in Hope and Legacy is so hard: the deep edges and the upper body movements.