General Skating Chat

[CiaoCiao]

2 hours ago, xeyra said:

Errr. I wouldn't go so far as to say that Romeo is a character that belongs to Yuzu. I mean, I'll fight you on that because I loved the Leonardo DiCaprio movie, okay!?  

 

1 hour ago, Forcefield said:

Then I should probably rewatch it as I saw Leo's version while I was in college (yep I was an adult by then) and it was the first time I got on the Leo train - plus I even cried at the end which I didn't do for the other version I've seen. At least my childhood will remain intact. 

It's amazing to see how both the film and Yuzu's performance can express the character so much.

[SSS]

Will we see grown-up Romeo in UA in practice this season?

[Yatagarasu]

3 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

Also, I can't help but comment on this piece in the interview you linked me:

 

 

Hint: it's gonna be hard to improve your components when you're 16 and you have to focus on landing a high number of extremely difficult quads in a short amount of time. Oh, did I say hard? I meant impossible. And, guess what? You can see it if you watch his FS. He's got nothing on his mind but quads. When he's not jumping, his mind is restoring energy for the next jump. And there would be no other way. 

 

 

Pretty much. And worst off, they're not even good quads, so many URs. They are throwing everything in just to get him to the Olympics via a short-cut. He's not going to be a medal contender, so all this rushing and for what? I am also miffed because just by throwing in these quads it is pretty much almost guaranteed either Jason or Adam doesn't get to go (Joshua aside, we've yet to see how he'll come back) and both of them eat Vincent for breakfast frankly, when it comes to overall quality. 

 

Generally speaking, at this point, I have got to say apart from the usual human compassion for other people, I can just shake my head if he ends up breaking himself. There's such a thing as personal responsibility and not everything is on ISU to control. Skaters and their teams must do some of it too. It's where I respect Brian a lot because he's been very careful with quads and how they're introduced. 

[liv]

Yes. Compare him to someone around his age, like jun hwan, who I  find more interesting to watch. He only has a couple of quads, but his programs are well thought out and attention has been paid to many areas. It will be interesting to see what his programs look like this year to better compare. 

[CupidsBow]

Junhwan seems very level-headed and grounded, not getting caught up in the quad race and playing the long game. He knows he's not likely to get any medals at Pyeongchang and has his sights set on the next Olympics and I think that's smart. Brian will make sure he has a strong foundation in his skills and performance components and raise his tech at the right time - he can do the jumps cuz Yuzu has talked about seeing Junhwan training before. I feel like Nathan and Vincent are a bit more 'here for a good time not for a long time' while Junhwan seems to be thinking more about a bigger picture.

Vincent might be trying a lot of quads but the execution of them is a bit...eh and watching his FS...I feel like the choice of music, particularly the similarity to Hanyu's 2012 music cuts, is an unfortunate choice because it's really hard not to compare and it really draws attention to how little impact he has (right now) performance wise. It'll probably be tidied up before the season really starts but it really shows (to me) that jumps are not enough. He'll get the hype for the quads but overall it's not a great program imo. We'll see how it plays out in the season but I'll be really sad if Jason or Adam lose a ticket to Pyeongchang to Vincent because I'd much rather see them skate than Vincent tbh.

[Murieleirum]

Seeing Vincent's quads really stresses how rare and unique Yuzuru's quads are. Of course, their natural flow, the lack of tension, the speed, the way he makes them look so easy is visible without the need to compare them to other quads but... when comparing, it's so ridiculous, for real. 

I really hope the changes of ISU rules in two years will manage to reflect more the importance of good jump technique and quality over quantity.

[Yatagarasu]

16 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

I really hope the changes of ISU rules in two years will manage to reflect more the importance of good jump technique and quality over quantity.

 

Hopefully. There is already a way to improve the current situation, which is better judging but it's the Olympics so I am very skeptical. 

Considering we've already heard rumors of PCS scoring being altered, probably lifting the ceiling and thus balancing it out more, and combined with the one jumping pass less, maybe it'll improve post Games and I certainly hope so as the current situation really does not help skating as a whole. I've always loved quads, and I was in the jumps corner when we had Lysacek but now we're almost at the opposite extreme and surely there's a balance to be found.

[SSS]

48 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

Seeing Vincent's quads really stresses how rare and unique Yuzuru's quads are. Of course, their natural flow, the lack of tension, the speed, the way he makes them look so easy is visible without the need to compare them to other quads but... when comparing, it's so ridiculous, for real. 

[singcarcom]

I just went to watch Yuzu's FS from 2012 before watching Vincent's...and I see what y'all mean.

 

The first few seconds were still pretty enjoyable, but after that the entire program is simply preparing for and recovering from quads. His first 2 landings were so shaky that I went 'ouch' because of the impact his leg had to take...

 

I think it's such a pity that many youngsters are joining the quad race.  There is no shortcut to success, and even if jumping like crazy increases their chances of getting onto the podium, they would never be remembered as great skaters, like Plushenko, Patrick, Javi, Yuzu etc...

[EisElle]

11 hours ago, kaeryth said:

 

I don't remember the translation but the video is here. If I remember correctly (don't quote me on this) something about the music reminding them about a particular memorable skate by Hanyu.

 

It's the same bit in which they complain wonder about some GOEs awarded to 3A with different entries (and some judges not knowing what the hell they're watching)

 

About Vincent, earlier I watched a long interview and he sounded very down-to-heart and ambitious in a healty way, talking about improving in all fields and taking care of his health...then I got to watch his program and I was like

tbh what struck me the most, aside the almost identical musical cut and a general feeling of emptiness (which could as well change as the season progresses and he enriches the choreo), is how slow he looks on the ice.

I read this program was chosen so to highligh his speed and power, but I don't know if it is due to the camera angle, but he really looks so so slow (and his spins have lot of room for improving in that regard too... and many more aspects).

One thing that always impresses me when I watch 16-17 years old Yuzu is how much speed and power he has in his skating, despite the 2nd half stamina issues. His speed and power, coupled with the softness of some other movements, really make his RJ1 special (and the wonderful cut, of course, starting from the very beginning, which feels like a storm exploding). One can't doubt for a moment that he was Romeo.

True, it's still early in the season and Vincent has to focus on so many quads... has to...it's not like anyone is pointing a gun to him, he could start his senior career with a bit less jump upgrade and more work on all the rest  (and we could also question that a bunch of his quads aren't even real quads...why don't start rotating all of them, to begin with?)

As for now, he totally lacks the passion to be a true Romeo, which is strange, as he should be very familiar with the character already and they chose the piece specifically because they felt it fits him. He has the right age to let loose a bit of fire without having to be a super polished skater yet, why don't use age and freshness to his advantage, instead of getting all stuffy with all the not at all impressive quads eating all his energy and the performance? C'mon, boys, you're still so young! Less quads and more fire!

I was actually thinking that maybe Vincent is more the cerebral type, so expressing passion doesn't come that easy for him... but then  again Yuzuru is quite cerebral himself and he still is very passionate...

That said, I like the huge spread eagles.  (but the ending pose is so so similar to Marin's one... but I guess I should be glad that it doesn't resembles Yuzuru's one)

 

[CupidsBow]

@LadyLou  Hahaha my only take away from the program was that the spread eagle was great. Hopefully in the season he'll bring some...spark to the performance but yeah it fell kind of flat for me and the comparison to Yuzu doesn't help, especially when RJ1 was one of Yuzu's break-out programs that he performed with a lot of fire and saw a really big jump in his PCS compared to the previous season (his average PCS rose by like 10 points compared to the 2010-11 season)

[CupidsBow]

1 hour ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

Hopefully. There is already a way to improve the current situation, which is better judging but it's the Olympics so I am very skeptical. 

Considering we've already heard rumors of PCS scoring being altered, probably lifting the ceiling and thus balancing it out more, and combined with the one jumping pass less, maybe it'll improve post Games and I certainly hope so as the current situation really does not help skating as a whole. I've always loved quads, and I was in the jumps corner when we had Lysacek but now we're almost at the opposite extreme and surely there's a balance to be found.

 

I guess it will depend on how the +5/-5 GOE is applied too. If judges are a bit more stingy with the GOE only give +4 and +5 to jumps that don't look laboured, aren't telegraphed, have good air position, good take off, good height, good distance and strong landings then having good technique and quality to jumps will be worth it, but if it's like now where jumps can get over +2 just for being landed without a serious error (even if they look really laboured) then it won't really matter. If PCS value is raised and points are given outside of a PCS corridor, without points being given in PCS because the judges were impressed the skater tried an assload of quads, and GOE is applied a bit more consistently then maybe there will be more balance between quality and quantity. But lbr right now it's worth it to just try it and land a so-so quad vs a perfect triple because judges will be more generous with GOE and PCS to those who pack their programs with quads.  

[Anya]

I really don't want to comment on Vincent since it's too early in the season, but I'm looking forward to Yuzu and Vincent being on the same practice group... because we might see again Yuzu doing his R&J1 choreo on the sidelines  

[kaeryth]

More tips on identifying steps & turns (including explanation of levels & GOEs) using Yuzuru's step sequence for Let's Go Crazy!

[MrPudding]

 

some side by side comparison.