General Skating Chat

[CupidsBow]

1 hour ago, yuzuangel said:

I don't think Vincent wants to stay a while in the sport, though.

I have a feeling if he makes the Olympics this year he might r****. At most he will stay until 2022. 

 

Looking at his Wikipedia page, I see him wanting to go to Harvard and pursuing a non-skating path, not having a long skating career or becoming a professional skater/coach/choreographer of some sort.

 

huh kinda the same as nathan then? that kinda sucks for US men if they both quit after PC for school. 

[moni]

1 hour ago, yuzuangel said:

I don't think Vincent wants to stay a while in the sport, though.

I have a feeling if he makes the Olympics this year he might r****. At most he will stay until 2022. 

 

Looking at his Wikipedia page, I see him wanting to go to Harvard and pursuing a non-skating path, not having a long skating career or becoming a professional skater/coach/choreographer of some sort.

 

Well, in 2012 he said this but maybe changed his mind since then... or soon will (have to) do:  

 

Quote

“I want to go to the Olympics four times— in 2018, 2022, 2026, and 2030 before r***ng,” he said matter-of-factly. “It’s a fat chance, but I really want the glory of winning the most competitive award and to stand on top of the Olympic podium with the gold medal.”

 

source

[SSS]

On 7/17/2017 at 4:33 AM, AsteroidB-612 said:

So most of you are saying that if Yuzu is clean for both SP and FS then there is no way he will loose? But what about what happened to Yuna Kim in Sochi? I didnt study her and Adelina's protocol... But to my understanding Yuna did well for both program, was the queen coming into the event yet still lost against politicking? And even though people protested the result, they never gave her the gold medal instead... So isn't it still possible that Yuzu will face the same situation? And we would be mad like we did for the underscoring for worlds but while Helsinki at least gave Yuzu a gold for all the unfair judging, who knows if the end result will still be okay for Olympic?...it was already a close call in Helsinki...

I went to watch several most viewed Sochi scandal videos on YouTube today... All the manipulation techniques mentioned sound so familiar...Like if you change names and year, it can be applied to current situation...Nothing is impossible...Though yuzu is at a better position ...I have no hope on judges now. I can only trust Yuzu and pray to God...

[kaeryth]

Are we streaming the Asian Open Trophy?

 

[robin]

@kaeryth

Why not, we can stream it. Is there any info on entries?

 

eta: I guess not yet

[kaeryth]

20 minutes ago, robin said:

@kaeryth

Why not, we can stream it. Is there any info on entries?

 

eta: I guess not yet

 

I think Keiji, Yuna Shiraiwa, Kaori Sakamoto, Takahashi/Shibata, and a lot of skaters from team Korea (including CJH and Dabn Choi announced that they were participating.

[robin]

42 minutes ago, kaeryth said:

 

I think Keiji, Yuna Shiraiwa, Kaori Sakamoto, Takahashi/Shibata, and a lot of skaters from team Korea (including CJH and Dabn Choi announced that they were participating.

 

Yay Jun!! That's more than enough reason to stream then

 

 

[Yolo3a]

Why is everyone acting like it's the last Olympics ever??? Even Yuzu, with all his over achiever mushroomness thought that PC was his peaking Olympics. And all these tiny kids think that they want a piece of that at 16-17???? And the way to reach it!! Soon the sport would be called figure jumping. 

[Yatagarasu]

16 hours ago, moni said:

 

Well, in 2012 he said this but maybe changed his mind since then... or soon will (have to) do:  

source

 

No, it's Nathan who wants to go to Harvard, not Vincent. Though last time he spoke of it, there was slight change of plans there so who knows. Still, it does seems like they're throwing everything and the kitchen sink at this season so to me, it still seems likely he'll go, if he medals. If he doesn't, then I am not sure.

 

10 hours ago, SSS said:

I went to watch several most viewed Sochi scandal videos on YouTube today... All the manipulation techniques mentioned sound so familiar...Like if you change names and year, it can be applied to current situation...Nothing is impossible...Though yuzu is at a better position ...I have no hope on judges now. I can only trust Yuzu and pray to God...

 

 

Well they cannot push it to some incredible extent. Could Helsinki and the judging there repeat? Sure but still, there is a limit to how far they can go, when it comes to Yuzuru, even when we take into account propping up other people.

Honestly, even if clean on both programs it's not 100% a sure thing he'd walk away with the gold but he does give himself the best of chances that way. More than likely, if he skates like that, it's his. It's no small task but if anyone can do it, he can. 

 

[yuzuangel]

2 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

No, it's Nathan who wants to go to Harvard, not Vincent.

Lol, they could both want to go to Harvard. It's not mutually exclusive. 

 

I'm guessing someone who skips grades, gets straight A's, and has tons of volunteering activities is aiming for a strong non-skating resume.

[Xen]

..I'm honestly just praying that the guys pay attention to their damn health. While previously I suspected that 5 quads in the long is the fatigue limit for men's long, these guys really want to prove me wrong. So here's to hoping that I'm right, and it sinks in to them at some point.  And to think that maybe in 3-4 years we might have to say something similar about the ladies' field, with all the new young girls doing quads.....

[yuzuangel]

11 minutes ago, Xen said:

..I'm honestly just praying that the guys pay attention to their damn health. While previously I suspected that 5 quads in the long is the fatigue limit for men's long, these guys really want to prove me wrong. So here's to hoping that I'm right, and it sinks in to them at some point.  And to think that maybe in 3-4 years we might have to say something similar about the ladies' field, with all the new young girls doing quads.....

To be fair, young girls have been doing quads for a while. Miki has done quads in competition, Mao has trained quads as a junior skater, Yuna said she has tried triple axel as a junior skater...but most of the time they lose it by the time they get to seniors.

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

On 2017/7/17 at 午後7時33分, AsteroidB-612さんが言いました:

So most of you are saying that if Yuzu is clean for both SP and FS then there is no way he will loose? But what about what happened to Yuna Kim in Sochi? I didnt study her and Adelina's protocol... But to my understanding Yuna did well for both program, was the queen coming into the event yet still lost against politicking? And even though people protested the result, they never gave her the gold medal instead... So isn't it still possible that Yuzu will face the same situation? And we would be mad like we did for the underscoring for worlds but while Helsinki at least gave Yuzu a gold for all the unfair judging, who knows if the end result will still be okay for Olympic?...it was already a close call in Helsinki...

 

On 2017/7/17 at 午後10時37分, Lunnaさんが言いました:

It wasn't only politicking. Adelina truly had a skate of her life there, she had higher BV and always had good PCS too, so in my opinion she deserved that gold. Of course the place of Games helped the case.

 

If the gods remain firmly by his side, victory is his. Because as far as complete skating goes, no one is closer to the mark than Hanyu. ISU knows this. That and, even while his BV isn't the highest, it's very, very, VERY  high still, and if he manages to develop the momentum he wants, he can basically command his GOEs, and to a certain extent, his PCS.

 

But he can't command the GOEs and PCS of others, especially if they skate clean, as well. While the overt lifting has so far still not been enough to overcome Hanyu's sheer skill even when he couldn't fully deliver his best, as was the case last season, no one can say for sure that the Olympic crazy won't eat so deeply into the brains of those calling the shots that they'll throw caution to the wind just to please those with money in their pockets. 

 

If this happens, the scandalized outrage after will likely be bigger than the Kim vs Sotnikova debacle due to a couple of reasons:

 

1) Hanyu has been a strong presence in the sport. And that's an understatement. He's even more of a giant in it now than Plushenko or Kim ever were (and these two were HUGE) in terms of pushing the sport forward, fanbase and results. In fact, this whole situation with all these strong contenders and their myriad quads wouldn't have emerged if it weren't for him. He may not have singlehandedly brought figure skating to this level, but he did at least 50% of the heavylifting. And that's a low estimate. FS fan or no,  anyone with eyes--and they only need to casually track the past seasons--and aren't obstinately kidding themselves due to reasons unknown, will draw the same conclusion. We're talking about a leap from 3-4 quads total for the most ambitious skaters back in 2014 to an average of 7ish quads total among the top contenders in 2018. If anyone tracks back the last few seasons to the last Olympics, they'll find that the only common denominator that stands out high above the rest throughout this particular cycle is none other than Hanyu. And if we match him up against other remarkable figureheads  in all the history of this sport, there has never been one even close to being like him ever.

 

2) No one in the men's field up to now, absolutely no one, is close to him in terms of overall skills. The nearest would be Chan and Fernandez and even they have been left far in the dust by Hanyu. This isn't an opinion, this is fact.  The younger skaters, a couple of them show promise but unless they slow down and reevaluate their overall objectives as to why they skate, they probably won't ever achieve the same level of perfection as Hanyu. Funny how, though, that they are the ones with a better chance of beating a clean Hanyu than the ones who are actually closer to the guy in skills. Some things won't ever compute, I guess. And I'm not sure how close Sotnikova's overall skills were to Kim's but one thing I'm sure of is there's no way the gap was as wide as it is between Hanyu and everyone else. Not even close. Kim is one-of-a-kind, a remarkable talent, but she's not the force of nature Hanyu is. She is 50% artist, 50% athlete (some might argue it's more 60-40, and if these are fans, maybe they know better). Hanyu is 50% artist, 250% athlete.

 

So it would almost be an inconsiderable stretch to put someone else, no matter how clean or how much higher their BV, above a pitch perfect Hanyu who's delivered a monster of a layout himself. Not unless, like I've said,  this person somehow manages to develop the same kind of completeness, if not better, than what has taken Hanyu, even with his advantage of talent, physique, indomitable spirit, relentless drive and sharply honed mind, his whole life to gain, in a few short months. Think that's gonna happen? I don't think so either. So a stretch it is. But not a stretch that shady business can't make happen if the people behind it want it badly enough to compromise the integrity of the Games to the point of no return and effectively completely lose the essence behind the sport.

 

If that happens, that'd be their problem, not Hanyu's. ISU would have had the most perfect representation of the sport they'll ever get for a long time to come, and if they want to squander the one chance that'll very likely bring in more long-term returns than the short-term ones shady dealings can only afford, well, it wouldn't be the first time something with so much potential gets flushed down the lavatory. Hanyu would have his ideal skate and thus at least won't have to beat himself up over having delivered something less than perfect. We fans will feel poorly for him for a while but I think we'll all be okay so long he has his dream skates, or as close to them as he possibly could get, that would go down in the annals of history and burn his name into the minds of the masses for good. Because those, my friends, are the true prizes.

 

So my only real concern is if he'd be able to put out those best skates he's been hankering to do on that particular stage probably since, I dunno, the Stone Ages or something.

 

...though I must say that I'm also mildly apprehensive that these beautiful skates, if they happen and the outcome still isn't as it should be, may potentially be overshadowed by the ugliness of the ensuing shitstorm. So...let's just hope they're wise enough to give him the gold medal if he delivers and save everyone and themselves a shit ton of grief.

[yuzuangel]

10 minutes ago, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

 

 

If the gods remain firmly by his side, victory is his. Because as far as complete skating goes, no one is closer to the mark than Hanyu. ISU knows this. That and, even while his BV isn't the highest, it's very, very, VERY  high still, and if he manages to develop the momentum he wants, he can basically command his GOEs, and to a certain extent, his PCS.

 

But he can't command the GOEs and PCS of others, especially if they skate clean, as well. While the overt lifting has so far still not been enough to overcome Hanyu's sheer skill even when he couldn't fully deliver his best, as was the case last season, no one can say for sure that the Olympic crazy won't eat so deeply into the brains of those calling the shots that they'll throw caution to the wind just to please those with money in their pockets. 

 

If this happens, the scandalized outrage after will likely be bigger than the Kim vs Sotnikova debacle due to a couple of reasons:

 

1) Hanyu has been a strong presence in the sport. And that's an understatement. He's even more of a giant in it now than Plushenko or Kim ever were (and these two were HUGE) in terms of pushing the sport forward, fanbase and results. In fact, this whole situation with all these strong contenders and their myriad quads wouldn't have emerged if it weren't for him. He may not have singlehandedly brought figure skating to this level, but he did at least 50% of the heavylifting. And that's a low estimate. FS fan or no,  anyone with eyes--and they only need to casually track the past seasons--and aren't obstinately kidding themselves due to reasons unknown, will draw the same conclusion. We're talking about a leap from 3-4 quads total for the most ambitious skaters back in 2014 to an average of 7ish quads total among the top contenders in 2018. If anyone tracks back the last few seasons to the last Olympics, they'll find that the only common denominator that stands out high above the rest throughout this particular cycle is none other than Hanyu. And if we match him up against other remarkable figureheads  in all the history of this sport, there has never been one even close to being like him ever.

 

2) No one in the men's field up to now, absolutely no one, is close to him in terms of overall skills. The nearest would be Chan and Fernandez and even they have been left far in the dust by Hanyu. This isn't an objective opinion, this is fact.  The younger skaters, a couple of them show promise but unless they slow down and reevaluate their overall objectives as to why they skate, they probably won't ever achieve the same level of perfection as Hanyu. Funny how, though, that they are the ones with a better chance of beating a clean Hanyu than the ones who are actually closer to the guy in skills. Some things won't ever compute, I guess. And I'm not sure how close Sotnikova's overall skills were to Kim's but one thing I'm sure of is there's no way the gap was as wide as it is between Hanyu and everyone else. Not even close. Kim is one-of-a-kind, a remarkable talent, but she's not the force of nature Hanyu is. She is 50% artist, 50% athlete (some might argue it's more 60-40, and if these are fans, maybe they know better). Hanyu is 50% artist, 250% athlete.

 

So it would almost be an inconsiderable stretch to put someone else, no matter how clean or how much higher their BV, above a pitch perfect Hanyu who's delivered a monster of a layout himself. Not unless, like I've said,  this person somehow manages to develop the same kind of completeness, if not better, than what has taken Hanyu, even with his advantage of talent, physique, indomitable spirit, relentless drive and sharply honed mind, his whole life to gain, in a few short months. Think that's gonna happen? I don't think so either. So a stretch it is. But not a stretch that shady business can't make happen if the people behind it want it badly enough to compromise the integrity of the Games to the point of no return and effectively completely lose the essence behind the sport.

 

If that happens, that'd be their problem, not Hanyu's. ISU would have had the most perfect representation of the sport they'll ever get for a long time to come, and if they want to squander the one chance that'll very likely bring in more long-term returns than the short-term ones shady dealings can only afford, well, it wouldn't be the first time something with so much potential gets flushed down the lavatory. Hanyu would have his ideal skate and thus at least won't have to beat himself over having delivered something less than perfect. We fans will feel poorly for him for a while but I think we'll all be okay so long he has his dream skates, or as close to them as he possibly could get, that would go down in the annals of history and burn his name into the minds of the masses for good. Because those, my friends, are the true prizes.

 

So my only real concern is if he'd be able to put out those best skates he's been hankering to do on that particular stage probably since, I dunno, the Stone Ages or something.

 

...though I must say that I'm also mildly apprehensive that these beautiful skates, if they happen and the outcome still isn't as it should be, may potentially be overshadowed by the ugliness of the ensuing shitstorm. So...let's just hope they're wise enough to give him the gold medal if he delivers and save everyone and themselves a shit ton of grief.

all of this  hoping so hard!

[SSS]

3 hours ago, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

 

 

If the gods remain firmly by his side, victory is his. Because as far as complete skating goes, no one is closer to the mark than Hanyu. ISU knows this. That and, even while his BV isn't the highest, it's very, very, VERY  high still, and if he manages to develop the momentum he wants, he can basically command his GOEs, and to a certain extent, his PCS.

 

But he can't command the GOEs and PCS of others, especially if they skate clean, as well. While the overt lifting has so far still not been enough to overcome Hanyu's sheer skill even when he couldn't fully deliver his best, as was the case last season, no one can say for sure that the Olympic crazy won't eat so deeply into the brains of those calling the shots that they'll throw caution to the wind just to please those with money in their pockets. 

 

If this happens, the scandalized outrage after will likely be bigger than the Kim vs Sotnikova debacle due to a couple of reasons:

 

1) Hanyu has been a strong presence in the sport. And that's an understatement. He's even more of a giant in it now than Plushenko or Kim ever were (and these two were HUGE) in terms of pushing the sport forward, fanbase and results. In fact, this whole situation with all these strong contenders and their myriad quads wouldn't have emerged if it weren't for him. He may not have singlehandedly brought figure skating to this level, but he did at least 50% of the heavylifting. And that's a low estimate. FS fan or no,  anyone with eyes--and they only need to casually track the past seasons--and aren't obstinately kidding themselves due to reasons unknown, will draw the same conclusion. We're talking about a leap from 3-4 quads total for the most ambitious skaters back in 2014 to an average of 7ish quads total among the top contenders in 2018. If anyone tracks back the last few seasons to the last Olympics, they'll find that the only common denominator that stands out high above the rest throughout this particular cycle is none other than Hanyu. And if we match him up against other remarkable figureheads  in all the history of this sport, there has never been one even close to being like him ever.

 

2) No one in the men's field up to now, absolutely no one, is close to him in terms of overall skills. The nearest would be Chan and Fernandez and even they have been left far in the dust by Hanyu. This isn't an opinion, this is fact.  The younger skaters, a couple of them show promise but unless they slow down and reevaluate their overall objectives as to why they skate, they probably won't ever achieve the same level of perfection as Hanyu. Funny how, though, that they are the ones with a better chance of beating a clean Hanyu than the ones who are actually closer to the guy in skills. Some things won't ever compute, I guess. And I'm not sure how close Sotnikova's overall skills were to Kim's but one thing I'm sure of is there's no way the gap was as wide as it is between Hanyu and everyone else. Not even close. Kim is one-of-a-kind, a remarkable talent, but she's not the force of nature Hanyu is. She is 50% artist, 50% athlete (some might argue it's more 60-40, and if these are fans, maybe they know better). Hanyu is 50% artist, 250% athlete.

 

So it would almost be an inconsiderable stretch to put someone else, no matter how clean or how much higher their BV, above a pitch perfect Hanyu who's delivered a monster of a layout himself. Not unless, like I've said,  this person somehow manages to develop the same kind of completeness, if not better, than what has taken Hanyu, even with his advantage of talent, physique, indomitable spirit, relentless drive and sharply honed mind, his whole life to gain, in a few short months. Think that's gonna happen? I don't think so either. So a stretch it is. But not a stretch that shady business can't make happen if the people behind it want it badly enough to compromise the integrity of the Games to the point of no return and effectively completely lose the essence behind the sport.

 

If that happens, that'd be their problem, not Hanyu's. ISU would have had the most perfect representation of the sport they'll ever get for a long time to come, and if they want to squander the one chance that'll very likely bring in more long-term returns than the short-term ones shady dealings can only afford, well, it wouldn't be the first time something with so much potential gets flushed down the lavatory. Hanyu would have his ideal skate and thus at least won't have to beat himself up over having delivered something less than perfect. We fans will feel poorly for him for a while but I think we'll all be okay so long he has his dream skates, or as close to them as he possibly could get, that would go down in the annals of history and burn his name into the minds of the masses for good. Because those, my friends, are the true prizes.

 

Totally agree with your reason.

The videos I watched pointed out questionable high BV with URs and wrong edges, interesting GOE marks with so many 3s, sudden jump of pcs, and politicking... I just don't want to see if yuzu has his dream skates and doesn’t get gold, people are saying others have higher BV, goe and good pcs...If that happens, will JSF be on Yuzu’s side...

 

Have you guys watched Vincent's Romeo and Juliet?...