General Skating Chat

[SitTwizzle]

Well, the maximum distance without a stroke, and the average one, are perfectly quantifiable too.

I don't see the point in moving from components (they are) to tech score, which scores elements only.

I know too, very few, even quite unbiased judges would be able to see the difference in artistry between a great Yuzuru Hanyu program and a nice entertaining one. I find it normal, it's a sport. This "unscorable" supplement in Yuzuru Hanyu's artistry is for our souls, and for the history of skating. And with fair scoring on quantifiable elements, and even a biased scoring on others (equalling the beauty of his skate with a meaningless agitation, which no unbiased judge could do but which biased judges with advanced AI measurements would certainly do), he would still be above his celebrated rivals, even when quite down in health.

[sallycinnamon]

Interview with Andras Sallay, former Olympic ice dancer who works as an event organizer at ISU, and there are some interesting info about how ISU is connected with IMG and how sponsorships are working at ISU

 

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How long have you been coordinating events?

 

[...] Now for almost 20 years I have worked exclusively for a huge US global company, IMG, a leader in entertainment, sports and fashion, where I cover a wide range of areas from figure skating to tennis to golf.

 

But as a former ice dancer, figure skating has a special place in his heart. What is your role as the director of organizing ISU competitions?

 

ISU's contract with IMG is about us creating the economic backing for the competitions. My job is extremely diversified and involves a lot of responsibility. In fact, the only thing I don't do is go on the ice to skate, otherwise I'm responsible for almost everything. I am responsible for approving all the printed material, planning and approving advertising, sponsorship sales, liaising with sponsors and accounting to them, assessing their satisfaction, as well as serving VIP guests, like for example Prince Edward. Because we run the VIP lounge [lounge and bar] at events, where, for example, in Japan we had 350 people in one evening. From seating them to feeding and watering them to entertaining them, looking after their comfort also requires a lot of energy and attention from the large staff, which I also coordinate. But I'm also involved in some aspects of television, especially archiving, and I have to approve the lights, for example.

 

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Which companies are sponsors of the ISU?

ISU currently has nine sponsors: Japanese credit institution Acom, Canon, also Japanese, which specialises mainly in the manufacture and distribution of cameras and printers, Japanese watch brand Citizen, French cosmetics brands Guinot and Mary Cohr, and Russian pharmaceutical company Kagocel (Кагоцел), Kinoshita, a Japanese company specialising in cinema operation and film distribution, but also in architecture and interiors, Kosé, a Japanese cosmetics brand, and Maruhan, also Japanese, which operates gambling rooms, slightly different from casinos. The slate can hold 14 boards per side, so 28 can be sold in total. Of these, Citizen, Kosé and Kinoshita have four to four, Guinot and Mary Cohr three to three, while the other sponsors and the event logo are displayed on two boards.

 

Which sponsors get the better seats? What even counts as a good location for broadcasting?

 

Unlike many other companies, we don't have a gold sponsor or a main sponsor, we treat them all somewhat uniformly in terms of placement. This is because each event has a different TV company, so we don't know the choreography of the coverage in advance. So how can I guarantee that certain signs will appear more than once during the broadcast. Since they jump a lot in the corner, that's a good spot, but so is the middle of the track for the bending. Nobody wants to get on the door, of course, as it is constantly being opened and closed, and there have been complications from that: we lost Nikon, for example, because their logo was on the door once.

 

But most of the sponsors, as I look back over the years, are constant.

 

That's true, Citizen, for example, has been with us for 35 years, but the French brands have been with us for a long time. And it's no coincidence that six of the nine companies are Japanese, because the sport is very popular in Japan, and when there's a figure skating competition, everyone watches it on Fuji TV. For example, one year in Tokyo, a grand prix final or world championship featuring Mao Asada had an incredible viewership of over 50 percent, which is absolutely unique. And if that coverage represents a good few hours of total airtime in primetime, with ratings like that, you couldn't imagine a more ideal platform to promote a brand.

 

Full interview here

[shanshani]

Been fiddling around with some database stuff lately, and lool look at this list of how Russian judges have scored the top 10 ladies by world standing:

 

 

point bias = average of points the judge scored the specific skater above/below the panel average - average of points the judge scored all skaters above/below the panel average (to account for overall judge leniency) [actually I didn't make this correction this time, whoops  I'm still thinking about how to math it out in the most logical way to account for things like judge leniency, so this is provisional]. note that this is per program, so double that if you want to get an estimate of the point difference per competition

 

in simple terms, it's how many points extra the skater got compared to the judge's baseline

 

so basically, if we summarize by combination of russian judge+skater

 

	Russian	Not Russian
Positive (bonus)	15	2
Negative (penalty)	0	20

 

this includes all the GPs, euros, 4cc, and worlds since the 2018-2019 season. it also includes 2019 ACI but I can re-run it without that

 

 

[sallycinnamon]

Thank you for this @shanshani, it's very informative. It shows Russian judges underscore Rika the most, which isn't surprising, and that ofc they overscore their skaters a lot.

[shanshani]

7 minutes ago, sallycinnamon said:

Thank you for this @shanshani, it's very informative. It shows Russian judges underscore Rika the most, which isn't surprising, and that ofc they overscore their skaters a lot.

it's also notable how they underscore everyone else, even if to a lesser extent. So even if they "only" overscore their own skater 2-3 points per program (which is already 4-6 points per competition), if they also underscore their skater's competitors by another 2 points per program, it makes the overall gap 8-10 points over the whole competition

[sallycinnamon]

2 minutes ago, shanshani said:

it's also notable how they underscore everyone else, even if to a lesser extent. So even if they "only" overscore their own skater 2-3 points per program (which is already 4-6 points per competition), if they also underscore their skater's competitors by another 2 points per program, it makes the overall gap 8-10 points over the whole competition

 

Yeah. And those 8-10 points gap are a lot.

[Melodie]

 

Hidden gem from Pyeongchang! I haven’t seen this before. Can we archive it?

[Paskud]

https://www.isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/documents-communications/about-isu/congress-documents/25790-congress-2021-provisional-agenda-1/file

[Paskud]

I'm so proud of them. #progress #innovation #futureishere

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52. ISU COUNCIL URGENT & ESSENTIAL
Rule 112, paragraph 4.c)
Amend as follows:
c) The means of music production and the format, means and timetable in which the music and back-up music shall be submitted (see rules 343 and 823). Acceptable music formats are CD, MP3, AAC-formats, WAV and WMA.
Reason: CDs are out of date and more vulnerable to virus attacks than music formats currently used. CDs are no longer easily available and cause extra concern for Skaters who should prepare for and focus on competitions. Most rinks do not carry CD players anymore and the music is played from computers at the majority of events. Modern music formats reduce the risk of music malfunctions during competition. In addition, CDs cause lots of plastic waste and thus, are not environmentally friendly and in line with the ISU's sustainability goals. 

 

(...)

 

188. TURKEY TO BE POSTPONED TO THE 2002 CONGRESS
Rule 343, Music reproduction system. Amend as follows:
1. All programs must be skated to music.
2. ISU Championships, ISU GP, ISU JGP, ISU Challenger Series; All Competitors shall upload their music to ISU ‘ORS’ or ISU ‘Cloud’ system. The music will be in an MP3 format..
a) The uploaded music should specify the Skater, discipline, couples, Team, segment and running time. Ex.Ladies SP –Zagitova-2:50 (not skating time), which shall be certified by the Competitor and by the Coach, when submitted at the time of registration.
b) Each program (Short Program /Free Skating/Pattern Dance when music is provided by the Couple / Short Dance Rhythm Dance / Free Dance) must be recorded on one track and on a separate disc;
b ) Competitors must provide a back- up on USB for each program.
Reason: Digitalizing CDs at events takes a lot of times for the organizers. We would like to have a new electronic music system (like ISU ORS or Cloud) to load and restorage Skaters music. It can also give ISU opportunity to have a good data base. Electronic music storage will cause less printing and time saving.

 

Council Recommendation:
Not urgent, requires a possible discussion. [lol]

 

[yuzuangel]

On 5/1/2021 at 1:15 PM, Melodie said:

 

Hidden gem from Pyeongchang! I haven’t seen this before. Can we archive it?

yess we have it, will post it in the archive soon

[Melodie]

 

 

 

Nasty stuff 

 

[Paskud]

Street Dance style (*Φ皿Φ*)

ICE DANCE Requirements for Technical Rules

https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-communications/communications/25800-isu-communication-2393/file

[shanshani]

On 5/6/2021 at 3:56 PM, Melodie said:

 

 

 

Nasty stuff 

 

lol I remember when I wrote a blog post laying out statistics on the national bias of judges, I also got a lot of freak outs and I think one or two veiled legal threats. this doesn't surprise me one bit

[yuzuangel]

"but let's hold the olympics there" lol

[Paskud]

anonymous skaters sharing their experience with eating disorders

warning: some really nasty stories

https://sport24.ru/news/figureskating/2021-05-12-problema-vesa-v-figurnom-katanii---istorii-figuristok-figuristki-anoreksiya-chto-delat-podrobnosti