General Skating Chat

[Xen]

58 minutes ago, Lilona said:

Thank you for hard work. A funny fact-this interview was translated to Russian in Russian sports fan blog (and without any credit. They gave link only in comments when someone asked of source) and translator HATES Yuzu. His/Her remarks in () were quite harsh. He/She even named interviewer Hanyufangirl. So after reading Ru version, I was sure that Zhao bashed Yuzu, bcs how it was translated... Offf.

I was arguing with her/him in comments but I was quite calm. Bcs I read for three weeks a brilliant complimentary for Yuzu and his skating from world FS experts and when some haters thought that they are more capable in decisions who deserved to win I can only laugh and feel pity for them.

Also, their arguments abt Yuzu are lacking any logic and actual facts -_-... Like no one on the podium didn't deserve to be there...  I read for three weeks a brilliant complimentary for Yuzu and his skating from world FS experts and when some haters thought that they are more capable in decisions who deserved to win I can only laugh and feel pity for them. Also, their arguments abt Yuzu are lacking any logic and actual facts -_-... Or that one: Hanyu didn't have right even to make it to Olympics...  And when I wrote that on WC I will be cheering AmaJin Boyang He/She answered that Hanyu crazy fangirls support only that skaters that never won over Yuzuru oO...

 I was like: WHAT? 

Offf sorry for nagging, but I needed to get it out of my chest. 

...o_O well I hope my translation helps. I would be happy if people actually bother to read the original Chinese/English translation here to clear up misunderstandings. =)

 

There's a part of me that is slightly surprised that people who understood Chinese thought Zhao was bashing Yuzu. Zhao doesn't really wax poetic about Yuzu's skating, but he does speak a lot about Yuzu's mentality and dedication to figure skating. And frankly, that's what Zhao thinks is most important as he mentions mentality a lot. Psychological state, and preparations and how it must be built up over time, and is the crucial ingredient to winning. Techniques, artistry are all things that skaters can gain over time, coaches and teams can help. But psychology is something that is dependent on the skater him/herself-this is why he said going through one Olys is a rite of passage, it's something that no coach, no matter how he and Shen tried, could really prepare people for. 

 

Well, if Hanyu fans only like skaters who never won over him, we have a long list to choose from. And there's a good cross section of fans who like Javi, Patrick, Daisuke etc. I think that antis just can't comprehend how a figure skater can become so popular, and need a small pet theory to feel better. =)

[Lilona]

49 минут назад, Xen сказал:

...o_O well I hope my translation helps. I would be happy if people actually bother to read the original Chinese/English translation here to clear up misunderstandings. =)

 

There's a part of me that is slightly surprised that people who understood Chinese thought Zhao was bashing Yuzu. Zhao doesn't really wax poetic about Yuzu's skating, but he does speak a lot about Yuzu's mentality and dedication to figure skating. And frankly, that's what Zhao thinks is most important as he mentions mentality a lot. Psychological state, and preparations and how it must be built up over time, and is the crucial ingredient to winning. Techniques, artistry are all things that skaters can gain over time, coaches and teams can help. But psychology is something that is dependent on the skater him/herself-this is why he said going through one Olys is a rite of passage, it's something that no coach, no matter how he and Shen tried, could really prepare people for. 

 

Well, if Hanyu fans only like skaters who never won over him, we have a long list to choose from. And there's a good cross section of fans who like Javi, Patrick, Daisuke etc. I think that antis just can't comprehend how a figure skater can become so popular, and need a small pet theory to feel better. =)

Oh sorry for misunderstanding-THEY USED YOUR ENGLISH TRANSLATION FROM CHINESE WITHOUT ANY CREDIT! So basically they translated from your English translation to Russian. So it was quite complicated read in final Russian and mb because it was translation not straight from Chinese and also translator dislikeness of Yuzuru I was offended. 

I was laughing my ass off and didn't believe my eyes when they gave the link to Planet Hanyu-they take English translation of an interview from here, but put Yuzuru in such a bad light in remarks to the article and in comments... I was speechless really of some people shamelessness...

 

[Xen]

11 hours ago, Lilona said:

Oh sorry for misunderstanding-THEY USED YOUR ENGLISH TRANSLATION FROM CHINESE WITHOUT ANY CREDIT! So basically they translated from your English translation to Russian. So it was quite complicated read in final Russian and mb because it was translation not straight from Chinese and also translator dislikeness of Yuzuru I was offended. 

I was laughing my ass off and didn't believe my eyes when they gave the link to Planet Hanyu-they take English translation of an interview from here, but put Yuzuru in such a bad light in remarks to the article and in comments... I was speechless really of some people shamelessness...

 

LoL, can you PM me the link?  I hope afterwards people bothered to check the source at least. =)

 

Personally I don't care about credit, but I am a bit pissed that this got used as Anti-Hanyu fodder. Which is bad on two counts- one is that it's a misinterpretation of what I translated. Two is that it's a misinterpretation of Zhao Hongbo, which is a pretty big deal since he's the head coach for team China. I really don't want people to get the impression that Chinese Skating Fed (as indicated by their head coach) is dismissive of Yuzu, because frankly, they're not. This in fact, is one of the reasons why I bothered to watch and translate it initially-let the crowds judge for themselves after getting the full context (because chinese is a language heavily dependent upon context).

 

I'm still amazed people want to use Zhao as anti-Yuzu fodder. C'mon, think for a second. Zhao is the head coach of the chinese team, he is the face of Chinese skating, so highly likely no freakin' way he'd go anti on anyone. If anything I thought Vincent Zhou fans would be most offended, because Zhao just refers to him as "USA's Zhou" when Vincent Zhou himself pretty well known in China (possibly more than even Nathan) due to his fluency in Chinese. Realistically, coaches, ex-athletes themselves are highly unlikely to not credit or outright dismiss competing skaters, especially skaters who won. They know how hard the sport is, and how hard it is to stay on top. It's the critics who have never competed in figure skating in their lives who tend to do that (not all, but definitely some).

 

The interviewer was not a Fanyu-far from it. From the way he talked, he seemed to have just collected random bits and info from online forums, baidu bars etc dedicated to Yuzu. I've checked into several baidu Hanyu bars, and I'm not...impressed? Yuzu does come off as an unapproachable diety in there at times.

Slightly off topic:

Spoiler

Instead I prefer the "humanized" version of Yuzu presented by Zhao-a version that has a very passionate human being who is mature, has good artistic sensibility, and is so thoroughly engaged with his sport that he dedicates so much free time to perfecting it-a true master at work, even if other people have to be engaged (choreographer etc). It is both discouraging and encouraging at the same time. 

 

Usually when I hear people say "such and such a person is godlike" it's an expression of respect, but also sometimes gets used as an excuse for why I (a normal human) cannot do the same. Hence, when such person is shown to be human, it's discouraging because you realize how little effort you really put into your craft. Well since I'm female, I guess one example would be if you knew a really pretty lady at your work, with a great body. Maybe everyone around her says it's just genes, and good luck to that. But maybe one day you notice that she doesn't eat junk food, works out 1 hour every day,  etc, all of which contribute to her looks. But it's easier to just say, it's due to genes.

 

On the other hand, it's encouraging, because looking at Yuzu, you also see a pathway to excel in figure skating. Well, maybe you won't (fortunately) get something as monumental as 3.11 to crystalize your goal, but everything else Yuzu does, is a blueprint for how to do better, from early years (journals) to later life (music and philosophy of skating).

 

 

[cinemacoconut]

Hey guys im jst wondering if yuzu can skate for another 4 years cuz the jr circuit for mens wasnt impressive. Like only gogolev seems a threat at this point. Wat do u guys think?? 

[Rora1608]

45 minutes ago, cinemacoconut said:

Hey guys im jst wondering if yuzu can skate for another 4 years cuz the jr circuit for mens wasnt impressive. Like only gogolev seems a threat at this point. Wat do u guys think?? 

I'm pretty sure Yuzu can still be one of the top skaters for the next 4 years but even if the junior circuit is not so impressive right now, we can't forget that skaters like Shoma, Nathan, Boyang and Vincent are still young and have a lot of potential, so they can still be a threat.
In particular Boyang, in my opinion, has a lot of potential. He is so understimated, everyone forgets that he is a jumping bean like Nathan, his jumps are great (still think his 4Lz is the best) but unlike Nathan, he's actually understood that jumps are not everything, that he needs to work on his artistry and pcs. I still feel that this is what Nathan is missing, that he's thinking too much about all the jumps and not enough about everything else...
So if Boyang works hard on everything I think he will be great in the future.
Shoma, on the other hand, is already balanced between technical score and pcs, he has enough stamina to be competitive with jumps and just need to work harder on improving his goe and pcs.
He just needs to STOP BEING THE SECOND lmao

 

I'm so excited to see how everyone will evolve in the future under the new rules.

[cinemacoconut]

5 minutes ago, Rora1608 said:

I'm pretty sure Yuzu can still be one of the top skaters for the next 4 years but even if the junior circuit is not so impressive right now, we can't forget that skaters like Shoma, Nathan, Boyang and Vincent are still young and have a lot of potential, so they can still be a threat.
In particular Boyang, in my opinion, has a lot of potential. He is so understimated, everyone forgets that he is a jumping bean like Nathan, his jumps are great (still think his 4Lz is the best) but unlike Nathan, he's actually understood that jumps are not everything, that he needs to work on his artistry and pcs. I still feel that this is what Nathan is missing, that he's thinking too much about all the jumps and not enough about everything else...
So if Boyang works hard on everything I think he will be great in the future.
Shoma, on the other hand, is already balanced between technical score and pcs, he has enough stamina to be competitive with jumps and just need to work harder on improving his goe and pcs.
He just needs to STOP BEING THE SECOND lmao

 

I'm so excited to see how everyone will evolve in the future under the new rules.

 

 

But didnt nathan wnt to go to med school? He cnt b serious about Olympic gold in beijing becuz med school timetable is very tough. 

 

And boyang yes i admit but jst doesnt have the charisma and artistry of yuzu and never will.

 

Shoma i think maybe. But hes a bit lacking in the height department which affects the viewers perception. FS is a sport where height and beauty does matter. 

 

 

[Neenah]

2 hours ago, cinemacoconut said:

 

 

But didnt nathan wnt to go to med school? He cnt b serious about Olympic gold in beijing becuz med school timetable is very tough. 

 

And boyang yes i admit but jst doesnt have the charisma and artistry of yuzu and never will.

 

Shoma i think maybe. But hes a bit lacking in the height department which affects the viewers perception. FS is a sport where height and beauty does matter. 

 

 

Nathan said that he will try collage and skating next year to see if he can balance both. If not, he may take time off studying for FS. The interview were he talked about it is here, it is the last question 

 

 

Boyang does not have Yuzu's charisma but that is natural because it is Yuzu's and I don't think he is giving it up   (sorry for the terrible joke, I just had to). I do think that Boyang has charisma and a lot of personalty, he just needs to improve his skating skills enough to allow him to show it.  He has been doing everything right so far, and we can clearly see the improvement, so I do believe that he will get there eventually. 

 

Not sure about the hight thing since Shoma already has a lot of fans and the judges clearly love him so it is obviously not affecting him much. He is a very talented performer and knows how to utilize his upper body perfectly which works great in taking the attention of his technical flaws, so I think he will be fine.

 

I also think that expecting any skater to be the next Yuzu (or any great skater) is not fair to them. The should be allowed to build their own image and style and be themselves on ice. There will never be a second Yuzu just like there will not be another Nathan, Shoma, or Boyang. They are all unique and I feel we should be focusing on that rather than putting them in a box. This is the reason I get so annoyed when people say that all the Russian ladies are the same because while they do have similarities in their programs, they are also different so why focus only on the similarities and forget what makes them special.

 

Edit: added link to Nathan's interview 

[WinForPooh]

39 minutes ago, cinemacoconut said:

 

 

But didnt nathan wnt to go to med school? He cnt b serious about Olympic gold in beijing becuz med school timetable is very tough. 

 

And boyang yes i admit but jst doesnt have the charisma and artistry of yuzu and never will.

 

Shoma i think maybe. But hes a bit lacking in the height department which affects the viewers perception. FS is a sport where height and beauty does matter. 

 

 

Nathan said before the Olympic season that he wanted to go to med school, giving the impression that that was his focus. But during the Olympic season, he said he wanted to balance the two. He is only 18, motivations and aims change a lot. He might have said something a couple of years ago, believing that his Olympics would go a lot differently, and then everything happened and we don't know how he feels about it. He's a very talented young man whose parents are doctors, I believe. If he finds now after facing such disappointment that his joy and passion is in figure skating, then he could become a wonderful skater. If he feels it's not, he might not go on till then. We don't know. But doing med school AND being an elite skater would be just about impossible.

 

Boyang doesn't have Yuzu's enchanting artistry, but he does have a different kind of very engaging artistry and a commitment to improving his skating skills and performance skills. It would be a mistake for him to try to emulate Yuzu, the almost recluse (I am not talking about his immediate personal life) who focuses almost entirely on skating, the perfectionist who can shut everything else out until it's time to let us and our support in again, for his strength. Boyang is a social media-happy little tol bean who puts his energy out there and who gets it back from his supporters. That's reflected in his performances, too. This season's programmes were very different for him, a stepping stone to more serious ones, and considering that he went from Spiderman to Crouching Tiger, he did a great job. Yuzu reminds us often that artistry is built on technique. You can't focus on expressive movements if your edges are uncertain. Boyang, when he develops more, will have a different kind of artistry, but it will also be the kind that can make you feel something special. Different, maybe never equal to Yuzu's because he's one in many ages, but very good, very special. 

 

Shoma's height won't make so much difference, I think. When the rink is so big and the audience is far away, the ability to project is what matters, and how much can five centimetres help you project dramatically better? Shoma has that performance skill of keeping people's eyes on him. Personally, I think he needs to work with more choreographers to develop because it's Intense-Shoma all the time and his off ice personality is more interesting. His jumps, on the other hand, with the +/-5 GOE system, we'll see how that goes. He does come from a skating school that has more influence, unlike Yuzu. _{And gets GOE for fun apparently, but that's snark, don't mind me.} 

[Sombreuil]

I got quite annoyed during the Olympics when some commentators were implying that Jun Hwan Cha was somehow the new YH based presumably on being Asian and having the same coach- why can't they let him be himself - same goes for all of them.   I'm hoping that Boyang can continue to improve - he seems to me to be the one who is doing the work to gradually work up to the full package.  Maybe now the Olympic pressure is off and the toxic media attention has moved elsewhere the others might think of doing the same- unless they start trying to kill themselves trying to beat Yuzuru to land Nessie but I don't see any 3A out there that suggests that is likely.

[xeyra]

To be fair, before Nathan enters Med School he has to do his undergraduate degree, so he has some time! 

[Xen]

7 minutes ago, xeyra said:

To be fair, before Nathan enters Med School is has to do his undergraduate degree, so he has some time! 

 US colleges also allow you to enter later. Or at least that was the case when I studied there. So Nate could take his tests for college now, apply, and go in a year or 2 later after clarifying with the college probably. His special condition can't be unknown considering how many cereal boxes he appeared on. =)

[WinForPooh]

1 hour ago, xeyra said:

To be fair, before Nathan enters Med School is has to do his undergraduate degree, so he has some time! 

He'll have to do it in bio-science subject and he'll have minimum hour requirements to get through to med school, won't he? Doing pre-med should still be really demanding. 

 

2 hours ago, Sombreuil said:

I got quite annoyed during the Olympics when some commentators were implying that Jun Hwan Cha was somehow the new YH based presumably on being Asian and having the same coach- why can't they let him be himself - same goes for all of them.   I'm hoping that Boyang can continue to improve - he seems to me to be the one who is doing the work to gradually work up to the full package.  Maybe now the Olympic pressure is off and the toxic media attention has moved elsewhere the others might think of doing the same- unless they start trying to kill themselves trying to beat Yuzuru to land Nessie but I don't see any 3A out there that suggests that is likely.

Junhwan's free skate was special. He really put himself out there. He landed his jumps very well at that national competition to get chosen for the Olympics, but that free skate was far better for me. But there will probably never be a new Yuzu, unless he finds somebody that incredibly talented and coaches them, and Yuzu turns out to have the kind of talent for coaching that he does for skating. Doing a few one-hour sessions isn't the same, so we can't know. Even then, they won't be the new Yuzu. They will be a new one of a kind. I'd hope Yuzu would never drill the uniqueness out of a skating prodigy if he finds one. 

 

Boyang did a great job with his free skate, too. He didn't have much to work with, tbh. The music cuts. The choreo.  That's really why my affection for that young man went up. He really tried, and you could see it. Nathan tried, too, but to land his jumps, and he had much better programmes to work with.

 

Ah well, Olympics can do things to athletes. Boyang seems to be doing well after it. We'll see if Nathan's priorities shift. 

 

Speaking of youngsters, I hope Krasnozhon is okay after that terrible fall. 

[meoima]

Yuzuru can win Beijing Olympics if he stays healthy. But... he seems to be content with 2 Olympic gold, and his goal might be just landing the 4A in competition then retire and becomes a coach/instructor for young skaters. Personally I guess Yuzuru wants to retire at WC 2019 as it will be in Japan.

His remarks to CBC interview seems to me he’s thinking of retirement honestly, that he feels if he leaves now, Japan men will be in good hands. 

Well personally I don’t think Japan men will be in good hands if Yuzuru retires. But that’s the story of another day, as you know, that kind of bad technique will catch up eventually. 

[Sombreuil]

Mmmm- I know what you mean, but I'm not sure how much reliance one should place on these post competition interviews.  People are tired, or elated, and don't always mean what they seem to say.  Also he's not exactly fluent in English so he tends to speak in simple terms without the nuance he would use if he were speaking Japanese.  I agree with you about bad technique - judges can decide to 'see' UR etc whenever they choose, whatever they may have overlooked in the past.

[meoima]

8 minutes ago, Sombreuil said:

Mmmm- I know what you mean, but I'm not sure how much reliance one should place on these post competition interviews.  People are tired, or elated, and don't always mean what they seem to say.  Also he's not exactly fluent in English so he tends to speak in simple terms without the nuance he would use if he were speaking Japanese.  I agree with you about bad technique - judges can decide to 'see' UR etc whenever they choose, whatever they may have overlooked in the past.

Believe me, judges know, it will become a matter if it’s Nathan or Vincent or any Russian/Canadian/US top skaters going into the next Olympics as the medal contenders. It’s just what happens in this sport, you’re not lucky forever. Judges always have a way if they want. People didn’t expect Alina to score up so fast, yet she did. If judges want, they have a way.