General Skating Chat

[xeyra]

9 minutes ago, Xen said:

I actually try to eyeball the distance by using visual markers in the arenas. So Yuzu's 4Lz being around 3 meters distance is something I find believable, simply because he took off in the area around the hockey goalie region, and cleared quite a bit of ice in that region. Boyang though, I have to give the biggest 4Lz award to him. He nearly ran into the boards.  

 

He regularly seems to run so close into the boards, to sometimes the detriment of good flow out of his -3T when he does 4Lz3T. The distance is just insane. 

[Xen]

Just now, xeyra said:

 

He regularly seems to run so close into the boards, to sometimes the detriment of good flow out of his -3T when he does 4Lz3T. The distance is just insane. 

Yuzu is almost there, but he starts his 4Lz a bit earlier than Boyang I think.  These photos from CoR don't have many markers so it's harder for me to eyeball the distance. T_T

[meoima]

18 minutes ago, Xen said:

Yuzu is almost there, but he starts his 4Lz a bit earlier than Boyang I think.  These photos from CoR don't have many markers so it's harder for me to eyeball the distance. T_T

I would say Yuzuru’s air time is very much the highest. Hopefully we will see better 4lz from him soon. 

[SSS]

8 hours ago, xeyra said:

 

@SSS, I'm going to be blunt. There are things you can twist yourself over about within reason and others that you're just being a tad too high strung over. Nathan being part of this analysis is not something to be crying propaganda over, especially since there's been an analysis of Boyang's 4Lz before on their site. Taking issue with heights here is also a bit too much. If you're going to be treating every Nathan mention as propaganda, it's going to be a very problematic season for you. 

I think all three should be put into one post. I want Boyang to be there. and height should be adjusted correctly in order to be a correct analysis. wrong data just made me uncomfortable..lol...Sorry I am always into those tiny data... besides that, it was a good analysis. 

Edit: as mentioned above, camera angle is also different. Noticed that when I read the post. What else can we do though. It is probably the best analysis we can get.

[meoima]

3 minutes ago, SSS said:

I think all three should be put into one post. I want Boyang to be there. and height should be adjusted correctly in order to be a correct analysis. wrong data just made me uncomfortable..lol...Sorry I am always into those tiny data... besides that, it was a good analysis. 

The guy does the video analysis for a living with other European athletes so he is pretty serious about that. He just doesn’t know the true numbers of their heights, and the cameras being so unstable doesn’t help as well. Who could have said ISU and co are so unreliable when it comes to biographies and recording... lol

[SSS]

10 minutes ago, meoima said:

The guy does the video analysis for a living with other European athletes so he is pretty serious about that. He just doesn’t know the true numbers of their heights, and the cameras being so unstable doesn’t help as well. Who could have said ISU and co are so unreliable when it comes to biographies and recording... lol

Yeah, I just edited my post with the camera angle difference. I thought since he discovered the grow of Nathan, I probably expected someone told him the correct height of Yuzu. Actually 172 might still be a troll...

[Mastyaeva]

Absolutely not a specialist so I'm a little afraid to tell my opinion here, but I saw Boyang's luz live in Helsinki and Yuzu's ones in practice and during the CoR. I'm basing only on my eyesight but Boyangs's one still seems to have the biggest distance. And speaking about Yuzu's luzs, the rotation of the one from practice really was more quick than of the one he made during the competition. Frankly, I've never seen such a quick rotation as I saw that morning (I also saw Nathan, Aliev and Kolyada that day and they didn't seemed so quick; Nathan's luz is maybe the closest one speaking about speed). Again, sorry I don't have enough experience or knowledge. But this is what just jumped out at me when I saw it.

[meoima]

57 minutes ago, Mastyaeva said:

Absolutely not a specialist so I'm a little afraid to tell my opinion here, but I saw Boyang's luz live in Helsinki and Yuzu's ones in practice and during the CoR. I'm basing only on my eyesight but Boyangs's one still seems to have the biggest distance. And speaking about Yuzu's luzs, the rotation of the one from practice really was more quick than of the one he made during the competition. Frankly, I've never seen such a quick rotation as I saw that morning (I also saw Nathan, Aliev and Kolyada that day and they didn't seemed so quick; Nathan's luz is maybe the closest one speaking about speed). Again, sorry I don't have enough experience or knowledge. But this is what just jumped out at me when I saw it.

Yes. The Lutz during the competition was less fast in rotation but higher.

The lutz he did in practice had better body angle that’s why the landing was good. 

Overall Yuzuru still needs time to get used to the 4lz in competition. Since he said he knew he won the free skate due to landing the 4lz, I don’t see him backing down on the 4lz...

[SSS]

8 minutes ago, meoima said:

Yes. The Lutz during the competition was less fast in rotation but higher.

The lutz he did in practice had better body angle that’s why the landing was good. 

Overall Yuzuru still needs time to get used to the 4lz in competition. Since he said he knew he won the free skate due to landing the 4lz, I don’t see him backing down on the 4lz...

Is it true that Yuzu entered his Lutz with not much speed maybe because of the transitions he did?

[meoima]

26 minutes ago, SSS said:

Is it true that Yuzu entered his Lutz with not much speed maybe because of the transitions he did?

No... mostly because Yuzuru didn’t stalk his way into this jump. He skated straight into it, turned around and snapped right away. The moment he turned around for the lutz, he didn’t prepare anything. 

It is obvious in the arena to see who were going to prepare for which jump.

For example, during practice, I saw Nathan paragraph into 4lo (which he didn’t try in competition) for almost the length of the ice rink. 

[Lunna]

В 24.10.2017 в 21:29, Xen сказал:

To everyone who is wondering about the Boyang/Yuzu fan overlap. I can kind of only explain it from my own perspective. 

Boyang I did not like, period, in 15/16, and it was only really last season that he managed to grab my attention with La Strada, and what an improvement!

I agree, in 15/16 I was in awe with his 4Lz, but the programmes were  Last season La Strada suited him 100% so it was hard not to cheer him on.

I feel like all guys in top-6 have their strong points, so I can like one of them more then other depending on the programme. This year I really like Nate's SP, last year it were Boyang's progs and Shoma's FS. This season Boyang's SP can be nice but FS - not a chance...

[Lunna]

В 23.10.2017 в 15:40, Murieleirum сказал:

 

At the Kiss and Cry, Rafael seemed happier than Nathan to discover that he won a Grand Prix series. I wonder if Nathan actually suffers a little from the environment that surrounds him. I don't see him as blind as he might seem. 

Nate seems to be quite down-to-earth guy... and I wonder how he feels when it's so obvious who gets more cheers from the public despite not getting the gold (this time)... Of course cheers for Yuzu are always loud but during GPF or Worlds the difference wasn't THAT drastic to me

[Lunna]

5 часов назад, Danibellerika сказал:

Regardless of these, I wouldn't be shouting any stats to the rooftop as proof of much.  I know what my eyes tell me and watching both Nate and Boyang do several lutzes in the same spot at worlds for practice, there was no comparison.  Kolyada too even though he fell.  Boyang and Kolyada's are both wow moments. Nate's not so much. Yuzu's looks like a slightly less wow, but still a wow. 

I think Boyang's and Mika's (when he lands it) lutzes are the most WOW cuz of it's hight and distance. Yuzu has good hight and distance - his wow factor is short setup (not like... seeeeeee noooow there'll be a lutz) and the jump looks effortless (especially good ones at practice) like his other jumps - you can't say that it's the hardest jump (for now).

[Mastyaeva]

5 минут назад, Lunna сказал:

Nate seems to be quite down-to-earth guy... and I wonder how he feels when it's so obvious who gets more cheers from the public despite not getting the gold (this time)... Of course cheers for Yuzu are always laud but during GPF or Worlds the difference wasn't THAT drastic to me

I still remember the end of the men's practice last Saturday. Yuzu started his bows just three seconds before Nathan ended his ones and the difference in the level of cheers was simply dramatic. Maybe I'm imagining things a bit, but for me it looked like Nathan just gave up his bows that moment and left the ice. Even if I'm not correct, sure, the situation should to be a bit unpleasant for him. But, frankly, in any case, if we compare the level of ovations, sorry Nathan, but between mens, the second seems to be Misha Ge)

In addition, I think, there were not so many American fans in Moscow (except some Japanese with American flags). But Nathan still has home grand prix to give justice to him. 

[Joey]

52 minutes ago, meoima said:

Yes. The Lutz during the competition was less fast in rotation but higher.

The lutz he did in practice had better body angle that’s why the landing was good. 

Overall Yuzuru still needs time to get used to the 4lz in competition. Since he said he knew he won the free skate due to landing the 4lz, I don’t see him backing down on the 4lz...

 

I'd still bet actual money on seeing the 4Lz in the SP as well  His 4Lo was a bit iffy at CoR overall, Yuzu is Yuzu and loves his risky things, and he even tends to be more successful with higher risk (look at Chopin with 1 quad vs 2 quads ). If so, RIP Brians hair!

 

 

@kaeryth I'm late, but I can share some of my impressions from CoR (aka I will talk your virtual ear off I'm afraid!). Regarding Yuzu, I thought he looked in really good shape. He focused quite a bit on the lutz in practice, and his succession rate with it increased throughout the practice days (I saw all 3 from thursday to saturday). At first, he popped a lot, last day had more low landings/step outs. When he lands it, it is absolutely wow - the highest jump I've seen in FS I think! What really makes it special, like meoima said, is the short prep time Yuzu takes for it compared to every other 4Lz we've seen so far. It gives the take off even more oomph to me (the reason I love lutzes anyway - the outside edge and counter rotation make the take off so explosive, where flips for example look softer to me. Yuzu's shorter entry into the 4Lz makes it look like a gunshot/bullet, it's awesome!). In good old cranky jealous girlfriend style, his 4Lo was on and off too. IMO it might be related to after effects of less training time caused by the knee troubles, and maybe the 4Lz also interferes a bit with his loop timing. Everything else was spot on. And that would be 3As, 4Ts, 4Ss and one lonely 3F (because practicing non-axel triples is for whimps I guess! as is practicing spins, lol, who practices spins?! Jk, normal people do, normal people do). Yuzu was actually the first to jump, every time. He starts off with a bit of stroking, then bam!, 3A. Perfect every time. Then he went to 4T, 4S, then 4Lo, lastly the lutz. He didn't miss one 3A throughout CoR. The worst 4T he had in practice had a scratchy landing, and that was it (which is why his competition 4T mistakes really frustrated me "xD). And his 4S is still my favorite non-3A of Yuzu, the ice coverage and flow he has really are insane. Outside of jumps he was a bit low on energy (probably also related to early practice times), but every time he focused on a bit of choreo/steps, he locked really sharp. Honestly, he looked great. In competition, he was a bit more tight IMO. Especially in the SP, but also the 2nd half of the LP. Guess most of his energy really went into the 4Lz, which is fair, given that it is a big new element and when it comes to Yuzu, there is so much anticipation and hype around everything.... he must have had so much pressure to land it. Regarding Chopin I still have to say I'm too meh about it being back, so I don't really know what to say... the 4-3 placement really is divine, but only when he lands it as for Seimei, it is an improved version compared to 2015-16 in every way, IMO. The placement of the last 4T and 3As so close to each other, it's a real climax moment and showcases Yuzus skill perfectly by highlighting the non-existent set up. Given the great shape he's in right now, I think he'll get those perfect programs he wants, and they will be even better then 2015 NHK/GPF. Let's hope it will be at the Olympics!