General Skating Chat

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

10 分ぐらい, Murieleirumさんが言いました:

 

As much as I know Yuzuru is unique, I don't want to believe no one will ever come close to his skating. I believe in him, but we joke when we say that he comes from another Planet. He is a HUMAN, and the more children will be inspired by his skating, the more some of them will try to be like him, and I am sure many have the potential to be as great as him. He is not a prophet, he is not a God, he is someone who can and will inspire the future generations, either in figure skating or other fields. I do agree with you that separating SP and FS is not absurd, since a whole other bunch of competitions in Olympics only differ in time/duration variations. But separating technical skating and artistic skating is something else entirely.

I didn't say he's a god. But he is an anomaly. And while there may be others, perhaps someone even better emerging after him, they'd still be able thrive even under the new system, like I expressed confidence Hanyu would if he weren't retired by then. Heck, we may even see someone of his caliber being rewarded the multiple golds they deserve. And if they were anything like him, they'd make complete masterpieces out of both technical programs and artistic ones.

 

I'm not saying separation is good or bad. But it'd be different and we'll be seeing different things. We may like it or we may not (though many are quite adamant that they will not) but it's still very far away with very little details hashed out. So I'm...keeping an open mind, so to speak.

[Murieleirum]

2 minutes ago, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

I didn't say he's a god. But he is an anomaly. And while there may be others, perhaps someone even better emerging after him, they'd still be able thrive even under the new system, like I expressed confidence Hanyu would if he weren't retired by then.

 

I'm not saying separation is good or bad. But it'd be different and we'll be seeing different things. We may like it or we may not (though many are quite adamant that they will not) but it's still very far away with very little details hashed out. So I'm...keeping an open mind, so to speak.

 

Yeah, I understand keeping an open mind. I guess I had a gut reaction. I trust my gut though. 

In any case, Bach was an anomaly for music too. Skip a couple centuries, he became the basics of western music in the whole world and everyone had to study him for years to be considered somewhat decent c: So I think the sport should evolve in Yuzuru's direction - praise the capacity to be "all-rounded". Instead of dividing abilities. It just seems like the wisest choice. 

[Sombreuil]

I don't want to watch a jump fest. Did it in the 80s pretty much and it was tedious. And as I don't follow ice dance much I think I'd probably not be particularly interested in a no jump ' artistic' skate - and I'm sure the judging of that part would send my blood pressure sky high. So they're going to lose me and people like me- if they go through with it.  How are they going to replace us?  Because the perception in NA and Western Europe that it's a girly sport isn't going to go away because of a new rule book.

[xeyra]

1 hour ago, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

Got nothing to say about the splitting of programs into tech-based ones and artistic-based ones since this one is still in the embryonic stage of development. If it does come into fruition, however, it does allow skaters like Aaron and Brown to medal at different events in major championships like WC and the Olympics and people like Chan, Hanyu and Fernandez can probably win all-around medals. As it is, skaters like Aaron and Brown can work their asses of their whole lives and have little hope of anything much in the way of bling to show for it...I mean they're both from the US and it seems that the NA skaters, especially, of mostly, uh, non-Asian descent, have the most trouble in blending both (they're either really good at one or the other) so @yuzuangel may be on to something when she said this:

 

 

I don't disagree with your points about the new scale or even the BV reduction. I'm not so optimistic as you are about how effective these changes will be, but I'm willing to wait and see, even if lowering jump base value can help curtail and stagnate technical progress in the sport: the lower BV allied to however the -5+5 GOE will go, might lead people to hesitate on risking certain elements. Less quads in men but also less attempts at 3As and harder combos like 3A3Lo in ladies. 

 

I do disagree with the splitting, though. Vehemently. There are alternatives to bridging the gap between PCS and TES that do not involve dividing the sport between technical and 'artistic'. This is the idea I completely disagree with. Change the ways PCS are factored, give more weight to GOE on triples again, give better BV to spins or steps, learn how to actually judge GOEs and PCS, etc. But having two different programs to award two different sides of the sport is the furthest from 'bridging' the gap. 

[yuzuangel]

i wouldn't mind seeing a spin champion, a jump champion, and a team event like gymnastics where you have spin, jump, and overall events, instead of the current odd format where you have mixed disciplines and you can replace up to two skaters. but splitting up the short program and long program, and replacing it with an artistic and technical program, will absolutely kill any interest i have in this sport, lol 

[Sombreuil]

1 minute ago, xeyra said:

I do disagree with the splitting, though. Vehemently. There are alternatives to bridging the gap between PCS and TES that do not involve dividing the sport between technical and 'artistic'. This is the idea I completely disagree with. Change the ways PCS are factored, give more weight to GOE on triples again, give better BV to spins or steps, learn how to actually judge GOEs and PCS, etc. But having two different programs to award two different sides of the sport is the furthest from 'bridging' the gap. 

Couldn't agree more - it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[Aotoshiro]

2 hours ago, Hydroblade said:

I can see the headlines already tho, "Evil Fanyus accused of harrassment by ISU officials" 

After all, we are the all powerful! Able to change skater's program by disliking it on YT! Making skaters fall by the power of Pooh Rain! *Sarcasm mode off*

Seriously tho, it's not about the faves anymore...

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

 

1 時間前, Murieleirumさんが言いました:

 

Yeah, I understand keeping an open mind. I guess I had a gut reaction. I trust my gut though. 

In any case, Bach was an anomaly for music too. Skip a couple centuries, he became the basics of western music in the whole world and everyone had to study him for years to be considered somewhat decent c: So I think the sport should evolve in Yuzuru's direction - praise the capacity to be "all-rounded". Instead of dividing abilities. It just seems like the wisest choice. 

 

Figure skating as a sport, unlike music, has a governing body that basically created it. So it won't progress, develop or be retained the same way. True that it'd be sad that the separation would likely enable a platform that doesn't strongly encourage programs like the ones Hanyu is delivering currently (and not just Hanyu either) but just as Hanyu incorporated the best of all his favorites (most of whom were skating under a different system when he became enamored by them) and made them his own while adopting his own philosophy, others, too, would take the best parts of him as well as others and come into their own styles, under whatever system they're competing in.

 

Maybe Hanyu should start a school on how to jump like a boss...

 

1 時間前, xeyraさんが言いました:

 

I do disagree with the splitting, though. Vehemently. There are alternatives to bridging the gap between PCS and TES that do not involve dividing the sport between technical and 'artistic'. This is the idea I completely disagree with. Change the ways PCS are factored, give more weight to GOE on triples again, give better BV to spins or steps, learn how to actually judge GOEs and PCS, etc. But having two different programs to award two different sides of the sport is the furthest from 'bridging' the gap. 

 

Lol. Maybe in order to bridge it, they have to widen it first. Or maybe, it's only a drastic measure they'll resort to if this whole lessening BVs and increasing of GOE range somehow blows up in their face. Like if even this doesn't help bridge the gap, then just pull it apart altogether and see what happens from there. Or maybe it does still try the same thing but with more incentive for less technically-inclined skaters. Since tech isn't just about jumps (don't spins count as tech as well?), maybe by tech prog they mean something like what's happening in the FS now (but shorter, tho longer than the SP) where difficult elements are encouraged, but so is artistry (it'd be the tie breaker for those on top who are able to manage the most difficult elements) and in the artistic category, where the less technically inclined actually have a chance but so do complete skaters, the program is maybe about the length of the FS portion now but with jumps limited to triples and how well you blend those as well as how well you match spins with the music is the key. I mean there are a lot of ways they can develop and take this. It doesn't have to be the dead end many here seem convinced it'd be. Or maybe I'm just talking crap. I dunno. I'm not even 100% sure of  what I'm saying anymore. I'm up way past my bed time here with an early start tmrw in less than a few hours so imma go zzz now. No more controversial input from me for the time being.

[Hydroblade]

1 minute ago, yuzuangel said:

i wouldn't mind seeing a spin champion, a jump champion, and a team event like gymnastics where you have spin, jump, and overall events. but splitting up the short program and long program, and replacing it with an artistic and technical program, will absolutely kill any interest i have in this sport, lol 

Even if they awarded medals for each element, i feel like it would be a completely different sport. At least in my opinion. Definitely not one i would like to see. Figure skating moves something in me, through the blending of the technical and artistic aspect. I came back for a reason and if these changes take place i have no reason to stay (unless Yuzu stays too, because i would be interested in seeing how he would fight with that system in place. But it would be a huge loss for me to stop watching the beautiful way he skates under the current system. And i wonder if he would stay, given that his perfect skate is a complete package, not a separation of elements). I see it as taking a step back, rewarding individual strengths rather than pushing the skaters to work on everything and through that, achieve perfection.

[Sombreuil]

Have any of them looked at the way tickets for the men's competitions are going as soon as the internet sales open ?  The viewing figures on YouTube etc? ( it wouldn't astonish me if they only took into a/c terrestrial TV figures). In the men's competition they have a winning formula and they want to throw it out because they are incapable/ unwilling/ not interested in fixing the problems caused by their own judges?  

[yuzuangel]

6 minutes ago, Hydroblade said:

Even if they awarded medals for each element, i feel like it would be a completely different sport. At least in my opinion. Definitely not one i would like to see. Figure skating moves something in me, through the blending of the technical and artistic aspect. I came back for a reason and if these changes take place i have no reason to stay (unless Yuzu stays too, because i would be interested in seeing how he would fight with that system in place. But it would be a huge loss for me to stop watching the beautiful way he skates under the current system. And i wonder if he would stay, given that his perfect skate is a complete package, not a separation of elements). I see it as taking a step back, rewarding individual strengths rather than pushing the skaters to work on everything and through that, achieve perfection.

Yeah but it would be in addition to what we currently have, i.e. the overall program (short+long).

[Hydroblade]

6 minutes ago, yuzuangel said:

Yeah but it would be in addition to what we currently have, i.e. the overall program (short+long).

Yes, but still... idk, i feel like it doesn't make sense  

[Yatagarasu]

ISU has always been incompetent. And corrupt. It's just a question on how much can they mess something up. 

 

For this newest "gem" of an idea, well it'd finally kill figure skating. It is a sport, and in order to be recognized as one, it cannot have an "artistic" program that is going to be pure subjectivity in judging. IOC is going to kick them out really quickly. 

 

I mean it's obvious the point of this is to allow medals to those skaters who cannot cope with the technical at the level of the current top 6-8 but the solution is to rework how PCS is awarded and raise the ceiling, not this nonsense. It'd essentially turn half of the sport into ice-dance with even less rules. And while I love the blending of artistry with athleticism, lets be real here, people like those jumps. So in the end we'd end up with - less rounded skaters who wouldn't bother with one or the other, less interest in the sport that may not even remain a part of the Olympcis and it'd be thrown even further onto the margins to slowly dwindle away. 

One thing that gives me hope this won't pass is that it will most likely jeopardize the money they get. 

[yuzuangel]

When it comes to technical elements, I do think that it is a little bit sad that you can be a terrible spinner but a fine jumper and still do well (i.e. Elizaveta Tuktamysheva), but you can not be a beautiful spinner and a mediocre jumper (i.e. Alisa Lozko, Yulia Lipnitskaya post-Sochi).

 

Skaters like Liza can still win worlds, whereas skaters like Yulia couldn't even get a GP.

[Dori6886]

9 minutes ago, yuzuangel said:

Yeah but it would be in addition to what we currently have, i.e. the overall program (short+long).

If it would work as extra prize/ medal (for example, athlete that got the most points on spins (level + goe) gets prize/medal for being best spinner) or something like that then I don't have anything against it. But I don't think that changing figure skating into gymanstics on ice is a good idea.