General Skating Chat

[WinForPooh]

I love his hydroblades and IB. I can usually tell which programme it's from even watching UA clips without music, because each is distinctive. I prefer his Biellmann in ex programmes, he gets much better extension and keeps speed better when he doesn't have to expend energy on so many jumps. But it is pretty awesome that he can still do it at all. I'd be very very sad to lose his hydroblade or his layback IB! And I love that new variation on the hydroblade he did, without changing foot on exit. It was sooo cool!

 

(I do also think that his hydroblade has definitely evolved. His edge control has improved, and how he touches the ice with his hand has changed drastically, too. He can hold that edge without touching the ice at all now for a large part of the curve and that's incredible.)

[Xen]

Guys, properly done, low sitting hydroblades are *hard*, and the cross-footed one that Yuzu does is among the hardest variation.

It's not just a leg strength issue-edge control is also important, because how you use your edge, your balance can determine how much leg strength is needed (I can't do a shoot the duck, but I can hydroblade). Yuzu can go so low on his hydroblade, with so much speed, hold it for so long, and not need his hands...is pretty darn amazing.

And if anyone thinks it is easy...um, I'll offer this-next time let's meet at a competition together, bring our skates and head to a different ice rink, and I'll try to teach you how to hydroblade. =D

Curious ones can check out this video (https://youtu.be/JwgQwPnqKDc)

 

As for hydroblade into a jump-uh no, that's too taxing on the skating leg. I think going into a back spiral, or even transitioning it to a spin entry would be more doable.

As for what other moves Yuzu could try...I honestly want to see him do a really nice extended outside SE sequence. He already has nice SE from jump exits with minimum speed, I want to see what it could look like when he gets good speed going. Something like a giant SE that changes edges midway so it zigzags across the rink in an S shape, flowing inside to outside and so. And then go from that to an Ina Bauer. The SE sequence to end all SE sequences.

 

[SweetSakura]

2 hours ago, Sammie said:

OT 

 

Wow, this is big news! Thanks for sharing!! Do you think Orser consulted this with Yuzuru the way he did with Javier (when Yuzuru first joined TCC)? Hopefully he did and more info comes out soon. But very exciting, especially if Yuzu is on board. 😊

[hoodie axel]

25 minutes ago, yuzuangel said:

She did for one season in her Assasin's Tango program.

Oh, I didn't find it here:

 

Though really... Why would you do a hydroblade in a tango? It's a "cool" move, which works in programs like Spiderman (and with the bonus of being a signature pose for Spiderman himself), but it's not sensual or anything.

[yuzuangel]

3 minutes ago, hoodie axel said:

Oh, I didn't find it here:

 

Though really... Why would you do a hydroblade in a tango? It's a "cool" move, which works in programs like Spiderman (and with the bonus of being a signature pose for Spiderman himself), but it's not sensual or anything.

I guess she took it out, hah

 

 

[hoodie axel]

1 minute ago, yuzuangel said:

I guess she took it out, hah

 

 

Oh lord, OK, Medvedeva's is better.

 

Maybe this can finally settle the "debate" of whether or not Boyang has good skating skills. What he did in Spiderman was a pretty good show of his control.

[Danibellerika]

28 minutes ago, Xen said:

As for hydroblade into a jump-uh no, that's too taxing on the skating leg. 

 

I'm sure it's quite taxing which is why we hardly ever see it. Doesn't mean I wouldn't find it cool.  But since you pointed out that difficulty I think it's a good time to post Tim Goebel's effortless one as his last jumping pass (he also did 3 quads in this program too making him the first man to do it at the time ):

 

[Xen]

2 minutes ago, Danibellerika said:

 

I'm sure it's quite taxing which is why we hardly ever see it. Doesn't mean I wouldn't find it cool.  But since you pointed out that difficulty I think it's a good time to post Tim Goebel's effortless one as his last jumping pass (he also did 3 quads in this program too making him the first man to do it at the time ):

 

It is, but he also changes from his skating leg in the hydroblade to the right leg for the loop take off. Mind you, it's still bloody taxing and difficult.

And....for all the love of jumps, it's amusing that US media kind of forgot the existence of Timothy Goebel when we talk about quads these days. o_O

[hoodie axel]

3 minutes ago, Xen said:

And....for all the love of jumps, it's amusing that US media kind of forgot the existence of Timothy Goebel when we talk about quads these days. o_O

I think the US forgets that its previous men are far stronger than any of its current ones, at least the way they hype the current ones. Did they forget about Boitano when they talk about artistry (and great jumps!)? And did they forget Goebel and Savoie? But hype is hype I guess.

[Danibellerika]

14 minutes ago, Xen said:

It is, but he also changes from his skating leg in the hydroblade to the right leg for the loop take off. Mind you, it's still bloody taxing and difficult.

And....for all the love of jumps, it's amusing that US media kind of forgot the existence of Timothy Goebel when we talk about quads these days. o_O

 

I'm not picky whether you change a leg or not. I just remember the first time I saw it I was like

 

So anybody that does it will get plenty of snaps from this end!! 

 

 

And for the record, I know people liked to be hard on Tim for his artistry but I liked him.  He kept this program and I got to see it live at Worlds in DC the following year.  He had the skate of his life and the crowd was really pulling for him (but Plushy still won ).  

[kaeryth]

47 minutes ago, Xen said:

As for hydroblade into a jump-uh no, that's too taxing on the skating leg.

 

There was an attempt.. (to be fair, he botched ALL his jumps in the gala)

 

... and the baby version

[Xen]

2 minutes ago, kaeryth said:

 

There was an attempt.. (to be fair, he botched ALL his jumps in the gala)

 

... and the baby version

Well isn't he *extra*....

[Nutmeg]

Sorry for my lack of knowledge, but I was wondering, what is the name of that spin that Yuzuru (and a few other skaters) typically end their combination spins at the end of their programs with?

I have no idea about its difficulty level or anything, but I find it very aesthetically pleasing.

[hoodie axel]

The back crossfoot?

 

(And I think he does the headless variety?)

[Katt]

2 hours ago, Old Cat Lady said:

 

When I think about his choreographers, his strongest programs were made by Jeff Buttle.  Don't get me wrong - Semei is possibly my favorite LP of all time and H&L was great, but I think the difference between Buttle vs Shae/David is that Shae/David sort of string known elements together in a way that works with the program whereas Buttle adapts the moves to the music. He uses Yuzu's highlight moves sparingly, only when it is absolutely right for the nuance in the music that he's trying to highlight, and often adjusts it in a way that better suits the program or outright creates a new move.  When I look at LGC, not only is the knee slide unique to that program but with only one program, it's become an iconic move.  In addition to that slide, there's a leap in the step sequence that perfectly matches the music and is unique to that program.   That kick at the end of the axel - once again, so distinctive and perfect for the program.  It's the same with Parisian Walkways and Ballade - there are all these little moves that are special to those programs and make the programs special.   It's not that I don't want Yuzu to use his other signature moves, it's that by reserving them only for the most perfect moment, it allows room for all these other possibilities while making his signature moves even more glorious when you do get to see them.

 

It's not about how well he does the Ina Bauer/hydroblade/Biellman or whether he does other things better than these or about how well anyone else does these moves, or even that I think they are a bad choreographic choice.  It's that they often aren't optimal choices.  I would miss them if any of them went away completely but I don't find them necessary.  He has the best hydroblade in the business and it was great in Semei.  Actually, he doesn't really use it that much so I mis-wrote earlier.  His Ina Bauer is fantastic to highlight long dramatic moments in the music - I love the change edge Ina Bauer to the sweeping parts of the music in R&J1.  The softness of the Biellman was perfect for Notte Stellata and H&L.   

If you think about it, Jeff is always more a SP choreographer than LP, for all skater. And his choreo for Yuzuru is always on another level compare to what he did for most skaters out there. LP is another story since its longer, has more technical element and require way more stamina, especially for men with quad quad quad. Its a bit too much to expect the same level of transision and movement in SP for LP for men, even with Yuzuru. Great choreographer like Shae Lyn, David Wilson, Tom Dickson are capable of creating great SP and LP. Jeff didn't do any good LP, for both men and ladies as far as I saw.   

Most skaters have one or two signature moves that they always put it in their programs. Jason Brown with spilt jump, Shoma with cantilever and they do it in both programs. An overuse signature move is Vincent Zhou with his series of spread eagle. I think Yuzuru use his signature moves well, maybe I hope to see he does IB or hydroblade outside of chsp, but I don't mind as long as it fit the music. Just like I enjoy Satoko's spiral that I dont care if she put it into every chsq.