General Skating Chat

[Xen]

1 hour ago, Katt said:

I agree that 4Lo might a bit harder than 4F because its hard to get enough height to make the rotation and its easy go to off axis too. I read somewhere that its harder to put other jump after the loop, maybe thats why we saw when some ladies miss the combo, they only recover by putting 2T after 3lo. With Yuzu, I think his 4lo doesn't have the flow as his other quads yet. But its quite a consistent quad for him last season so I hope it just went off a bit at COR.  In the open practice at TCC, I saw his 4lo improve abit compare to last season, more height and better flow. So, please show it  Yuzu  

My own skating experience- I hate the loop jump with a passion. I got my flip to stabilize before I got my loop to be any good growing up, partially because I found keeping my hip closed while on a right back outside edge to be super hard. Why? It's your jump landing edge, so my body always wanted to turn out, so it's counter-intuitive in my opinion. The take off is off a 3 turn curve, and has nothing to help it for height or distance. You can't go into it with no speed obviously, but you can't go into it with that much speed, unlike the lutz, flip and even toe-loop, and even unlike the axel, you don't have skidding to help you with the take off. Either you go up, or you fall out of it. And for height and distance, it's just a small bit of speed, a lot of muscle power and timing being key. Trickiest jump IMO. 

 

 

[Summer]

I was watching CoR Ladies event on Eurosport and Mika Saarelainen (ISU judge) was commenting. He said that a hand above a skater’s head during a jump (tano, rippon) does NOT give any extra points. According to him it is only seen as a stylistic choice and not something that makes a jump more difficult and thus award more GOE.

 

This isn’t the first time he mentions it and he sounded slightly annoyed about the amount of tanos&rippons the ladies kept doing and clearly would have preferred hands on a chest especially when there was an error during landing such a jump.

[singcarcom]

9 hours ago, MrPudding said:

Patrick NOOOO

Poor Patrick....he sounds like he's having a quarter life crisis....

 

[Lunna]

10 часов назад, kiches сказал:

Going back to Boyang and Nathan’s lutzes really quick. I saw them do their lutzes one right after the other nearly side by side in the same spot during practice (I may have even captured it in my fancam, would need to check) but it’s no contest. Boyang’s is a monster. 

 

I wish I could’ve seen Yuzu’s 4Lz, I had been hoping he’d bring it at ACI but it wasn’t mean to to be. I’m just glad he landed it in Russia and hope to see many more beautiful quad lutzes from him. 

Boyang's lutz has insane height - it really stands out compared to his other jumps, I think Kolyda is closest to him in that aspect (when he lands it), Yuzu's lutz is light and pretty but not that much height, I think it's more or less like his other quads in that term, Nate's is ok, but nothing spectacular (not that can make you go"wow!).

Yuzu has great high in his 3A especially when it's the first jump in practice.

[Lunna]

3 часа назад, Katt сказал:

In the open practice at TCC, I saw his 4lo improve abit compare to last season, more height and better flow. So, please show it  Yuzu  

Funnily enough Yuzu jumped great 4Lo during FS warm-up at CoR right after the announcer introduced him. Maybe it was hard to concentrate on it after the tough 4Lz landing during FS. Hope it'll behave better at NHK already.

[Moria Polonius]

2 hours ago, Summer said:

I was watching CoR Ladies event on Eurosport and Mika Saarelainen (ISU judge) was commenting. He said that a hand above a skater’s head during a jump (tano, rippon) does NOT give any extra points. According to him it is only seen as a stylistic choice and not something that makes a jump more difficult and thus award more GOE.

 

This isn’t the first time he mentions it and he sounded slightly annoyed about the amount of tanos&rippons the ladies kept doing and clearly would have preferred hands on a chest especially when there was an error during landing such a jump.

 

Isn't there some "varied air position" bullet towards the GOE though? I saw an explanation somewhere that tanos and rippons are a way to satisfy this bullet, and therefore potentially raising one's GOE.

[cirelle]

The Swedish commentators said that tanos/rippons actually help with keeping the hip straight, which is apparently good in the air. I thought that was interesting and maybe another reason for people to use it.

[Yatagarasu]

5 minutes ago, Moria Polonius said:

 

Isn't there some "varied air position" bullet towards the GOE though? I saw an explanation somewhere that tanos and rippons are a way to satisfy this bullet, and therefore potentially raising one's GOE.

 

Yes, there is. I can only face palm at a supposed ISU judge not knowing this but boy, how it illustrates the current situation. 

• Unexpected / creative / difficult entry
• Clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
• Varied position in the air / delay in rotation
• Great height and/or distance
• Superior extension on landing / creative exit
• Superior flow in and out (and in-between in jump combinations / sequences)

So one more bullet and GOE go up one point.

[SSS]

1 hour ago, Lunna said:

Funnily enough Yuzu jumped great 4Lo during FS warm-up at CoR right after the announcer introduced him. Maybe it was hard to concentrate on it after the tough 4Lz landing during FS. Hope it'll behave better at NHK already.

that was a perfect introduction + 4lo. He got all his titles announced ...dream

[yuzupon]

17 minutes ago, cirelle said:

The Swedish commentators said that tanos/rippons actually help with keeping the hip straight, which is apparently good in the air. I thought that was interesting and maybe another reason for people to use it.

 

There are reasons why skaters keep their hands closer to their body when jumping (and why the closer their limbs to their body while spinning makes them spin faster) - it helps them rotate faster. Keeping the hip straight while jumping, while potentially helps the axis, does not help rotations. Raising hand(s) also changes the centre of mass, hence making the body more difficult to control.

 

I am sure someone can explain the exact physics law governing this thing, but it is simultaneously cringeworthy and such an eye-roll moment for the current situation. Commentators not knowing this, I can maaaaaybe forgive. ISU judge? No. Figure skating - and how ISU is botching it - is this close to losing me as a fan.

 

ETA: personally I don't like it when skaters overuse tano/rippon - but that's a personal preference, which does not take away the fact that doing tano/rippon does make the jumps more difficult and deserve the 'varied air position' bullet ticked for it.

[Murieleirum]

1 hour ago, Lunna said:

Boyang's lutz has insane height - it really stands out compared to his other jumps, I think Kolyda is closest to him in that aspect (when he lands it), Yuzu's lutz is light and pretty but not that much height, I think it's more or less like his other quads in that term, Nate's is ok, but nothing spectacular (not that can make you go"wow!).

Yuzu has great high in his 3A especially when it's the first jump in practice.

 

Actually, following the analysis of Yuzu's 4Lz that was posted here a few days ago, his 4Lz is not less high than Boyang c: If I'm not mistaken, both the analised jumps were 69 cm in height. Which is amazing! 

[Lunna]

15 минут назад, Murieleirum сказал:

 

Actually, following the analysis of Yuzu's 4Lz that was posted here a few days ago, his 4Lz is not less high than Boyang c: If I'm not mistaken, both the analised jumps were 69 cm in height. Which is amazing! 

I'm only talking about my own impression, but it's hard to compare jumps when they're not in the same competition, hope to see both at GPF already

[Murieleirum]

16 minutes ago, Lunna said:

I'm only talking about my own impression, but it's hard to compare jumps when they're not in the same competition, hope to see both at GPF already

 

Yes, since Boyang's was a little longer, I think the overall impression is that it's a bigger jump c: It looks the biggest to me as well, so far. I can't wait to see Yuzu's perfect 4Lz in competition  

[Aotoshiro]

1 hour ago, Murieleirum said:

 

Yes, since Boyang's was a little longer, I think the overall impression is that it's a bigger jump c: It looks the biggest to me as well, so far. I can't wait to see Yuzu's perfect 4Lz in competition  

Just dropping by to say that the mix of your rank and your pic (pics?) makes me snort with laughter. Good job, Overlord would be pleased!

[Katt]

12 hours ago, Xen said:

My own skating experience- I hate the loop jump with a passion. I got my flip to stabilize before I got my loop to be any good growing up, partially because I found keeping my hip closed while on a right back outside edge to be super hard. Why? It's your jump landing edge, so my body always wanted to turn out, so it's counter-intuitive in my opinion. The take off is off a 3 turn curve, and has nothing to help it for height or distance. You can't go into it with no speed obviously, but you can't go into it with that much speed, unlike the lutz, flip and even toe-loop, and even unlike the axel, you don't have skidding to help you with the take off. Either you go up, or you fall out of it. And for height and distance, it's just a small bit of speed, a lot of muscle power and timing being key. Trickiest jump IMO. 

 

 

Thank you for your input. I never skate, but from what I see, I feel loop jump need a very special control. Just like you said too much or lacking of speed/power can make you fail the jump. Its would be way harder with quad version. Sometime I watch Yuzu's 4lo and I'm scared by the way he twist his ankle and knee for the take off . No wonder Brian had to stop him do 4lo when he has knee pain

10 hours ago, Lunna said:

Funnily enough Yuzu jumped great 4Lo during FS warm-up at CoR right after the announcer introduced him. Maybe it was hard to concentrate on it after the tough 4Lz landing during FS. Hope it'll behave better at NHK already.

Haha, when I saw him did that perfect 4lo, I felt he would mess up later  I'm like " why dont you save it for the actual comp ?". I think his 4lo went off abit at COR, similar to last year's SC but it will comeback at NHK. The 4lz landing may effect too. I remember he said its take alot of energy to save/correct the jump.