General Yuzuru Chat

[Old Cat Lady]

3 minutes ago, Lunna said:

More money or just more medals for strong feds so skaters with less tech like Kolyada or Jason Brown can win (or just Chen can win both with ballet arms and all that), I don't believe artistic program has anything to do to keep skaters in the sport longer.

I have very slight hope ISu will not go there cuz I'm not even sure if artistic program can belong to Olys and just for the sake of current young skaters when at least some them try to up BV and have not completely empty programs at the same time.

 

I'm pretty sure strong feds are strong feds because they're seen as sources of money.  Perhaps I'm overly cynical (actually no more than you guys, just a different type of cynical), but I think it all comes down to money.  From a business perspective, it makes way more sense to provide an avenue for older skaters to stay in the sport.  In skating, careers are often so short and it takes years to build up a new following.  Medvedeva is still hugely popular but does anyone realistically see her even making the team in Beijing?  ISU can either provide an avenue where she still has regular public exposure or just accept that it'll lose at least some of her fans.  I'm not immersed in anyone else's fandoms, but I'm guessing anyone who is hugely popular has fans that won't be interested when they're gone. However, if she's still in competition in some form, ISU can still milk her popularity - there are sure to be fans who will buy all event tickets just to see her.

 

No, ISU does not care about preserving skater careers, per se.  But they do care about what will make money.  Having a combination of older skaters and newer skaters as well as a variety of markets makes more sense for business than putting all your eggs in 1 or 2 very fragile, short lived baskets. ISU does not seem to have any idea about nuances of fandom and sporting philosophies so they're not calculating any of that.  From their very limited perspective, I can kind of see why they're pushing this.  I personally think the whole team competition makes the sport look more like a joke, but maybe that's not true outside of the serious fandom - maybe from ISU perspective, the team comp is doing what it was intended for and they're just looking for more exposure.  I just hope that they can format it in a way that it still has some semblance of respectability, but I don't have high expectations based on what I see of the team comp.

 

Simply the fact that they're calling it an "artistic" competition makes me think that it'll be a farce of a competition.  The only way I can see it working is if it's structured like the SP, where there's still a set of technical requirements that are *supposed* to be judged by a set standard, but more limited in number of elements you're allowed to do while giving more time for non jump elements.  But then, there's also the issue of judging PCS correctly. Either way, the supposed artistic portion needs to have set standards in order to have any legitimacy as a sport and hopefully they also don't call it the "artistic" competition.

[4Nessie]

7 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

I think Lakernik said it himself why they are considering this (same reason why they make some rules less strict; I remember some comment about how they eased up on the UR rule because there were too many UR calls last season... like... ugh... if there were many URs, there should be many UR calls? that UR calls penalize a skater twice is an issue, but not that there were too many...): some skaters - or most skaters - can't do everything, so they're changing the rules to make it possible for those skaters to win as well. Personally, I think that's stupid. That's like deciding to not teach functions or equations in Maths in school, so that more kids can get high grades. Or deciding that it's not necessary for school kids to read classical novels, they can just read magazine articles and SNS posts to develop comprehension skills. And in school, that would still be somewhat understandable, but in a sport, deciding to simplify things so as to make it easier for athletes who can't raise up to a certain level is just stupid. It's a sport, it's not a 'let's make it so everybody can win!' thing. In a sport, the best athlete wins. If one could argue that NOBODY can raise to the demanded level, ok, maybe then the rules do need re-thinking. But obviously, it's not impossible. So why not insist on skaters actually improving to such a level, instead of simplifying the sport so they don't have to? But well, it's the ISU, so...

 

Oh, so here is an idea. Let's split soccer into two competitions. One with only catching balls, and in the other players can just steal the ball among themselves. I think that is a brilliant idea, because not everyone can score a goal so it's unnecessary to have all those players in one team. Oh wait, we could have two different teams at once and split the field. That would spare some costs!

 

 

I honestly don't know how there could be so many ignorant people on Earth. And ISU is full of them.

[Fay]

 

[Lunna]

8 минут назад, Old Cat Lady сказал:

I'm pretty sure strong feds are strong feds because they're seen as sources of money.  Perhaps I'm overly cynical (actually no more than you guys, just a different type of cynical), but I think it all comes down to money.  From a business perspective, it makes way more sense to provide an avenue for older skaters to stay in the sport.  In skating, careers are often so short and it takes years to build up a new following.  Medvedeva is still hugely popular but does anyone realistically see her even making the team in Beijing?  ISU can either provide an avenue where she still has regular public exposure or just accept that it'll lose at least some of her fans.  I'm not immersed in anyone else's fandoms, but I'm guessing anyone who is hugely popular has fans that won't be interested when they're gone. However, if she's still in competition in some form, ISU can still milk her popularity - there are sure to be fans who will buy all event tickets just to see her.

I get your logic I just feel like ISU has it's own logic and business views (not like mere mortals can understand it), so it's hard to predict what they want in the end. Also as I understand ISU might not care too mush about selling tickets (it's mostly organizers problems), most of the income comes from TV rights anyway.

[4Nessie]

And I think we need some strong murderface emoji. Desperate times call for desperate measures. 

[Yuzurella]

All I can say about the possibility of splitting figure skating into artistic and technical programs, competitions or whatever, is that if the ISU is really delusional and dumb enough to do this, it would be the end of figure skating. The most fascinating and exciting characteristic of figure skating is that it's a sport that combines physical prowess and technical abilities with music, performance and interpretation. Without this unique combination, who would still be interested in it? I certainly haven't read or heard about one single figure skating fan who's in favor of a split like that.

 

And if the ISU is indeed willing to destroy figure skating and does decide to make the split, Yuzu would be out of there. If they should really do that before Yuzu r******, I'm sure that it would enough of a reason for him to step back. I can't imagine that he'd allow the ISU to destroy his art and craft like this and that he'd actually bend to their new idea of figure skating.

 

The ideal of Yuzu's skating is the perfect fusion of art and technique. There's no separating these two in his vision of figure skating. This is the ideal he's always strived for. And he's achieved this better and in more perfect form than any skater before him. And to be honest, the way figure skating is going, I can't imagine that anyone will ever reach his level of excellence.

 

This is why I believe and hope that Yuzu will do many ice shows for many years after he r****** from competing. He definitely has enough of a draw to tour around the world and sell out ice rinks around the globe. I look forward to what he can and will do after the restrictions and pressure of competition are over. Yuzu's already created skating and programs that surpassed everything we've ever seen before him. It's mind-boggling for me to imagine what he could put out into the world once all the restraints of scores and rules are gone.

 

I also don't think that Yuzu would want to do anything that involves political games or lobbying. To me, he doesn't seem to be this type of person. He's more someone who prefers to focus on his art and craft. That's why I also don't think that he'd get involved in skating federation issues.

 

Anyway, all I can say is that I'm grateful for every moment Yuzu still competes, every moment he gives us the excitement, passion and emotions that only he can generate. I will enjoy and savor every moment of this.

[Henni147]

1 hour ago, liv said:

Yes, if so many get UR calls, then should they not be even MORE strict? I would rather the skaters who actually have proper technique and ability win competitions. You know, the best ones win? 

 

If the ISU doesn't like the excessive number of UR calls in the scoresheets, there is a very easy solution:

 

I put this in spoilers because 

Spoiler

 

Step 1: Measure the exact number of rotations in the air in degrees.

Example: skater attempts a 4Lz and rotates 1 172° in the air (that equals ~ 3.25 rotations, which is quite common nowadays).

 

Step 2: Set an ideal number of rotations in the air (depending on the jump type and its mechanics).

Example: ideal rotation number for a 4Lz 4 × 360° = 1 440° (this is humanly possible because FaOI19).

 

Step 3: Calculate the relative number of rotations and factor it with the BV.

[EDIT] Example: 1 172° / 1 440° = 0.814.   BV factoring = 11.50 × 0.814^3 = 6.20.

 

In this system a heavily pre-rotated and over 90° short 4Lz would have a slightly higher BV than a fully rotated 3Lz, which is fair imo. And more importantly: it would solve all UR call problems in the future.

 

 

[pinkosek]

On 9/22/2019 at 11:30 AM, Yuzurella said:

Regarding On Ice Perspectives, I've been checking their YouTube and Instagram since yesterday. Still nothing...

 

you need to go into their 2019 ACI playlist, there are multiple vids including Yuzu  

 

[Yuzurella]

Warrior Yuzu getting ready for battle.

 

And yes, @4Nessie, we definitely need a murder face Yuzu emoji!

[Paskud]

2 hours ago, Old Cat Lady said:

random, probably unpopular thought.  It's possible that this whole splitting tech and artistic is actually to keep skaters like Yuzu in the sport longer.  ISU has to know at this point that without Yuzu, tickets only sell in Russia and Japan, but by having an "artistic" event, skaters that can no longer compete technically can still win but they can still have an American/Russian champion in the "technical" competition.  It's a "win/win" by ISU perspective - they can keep milking Yuzu for his popularity while still trying to create champions to market in other parts of the world.

 

I imagine ISU also wants to have more opportunities to crown Olympic skating champions.  Most of the public doesn't know how much of a farce the team event is so they buy into team medalists getting introduced as Olympic champions.  

 

I never took the proposal seriously so I haven't looked into it, but in theory, my main problem is with how they're going to be able to score the "artistic" portion with any type of competitive integrity - granted, they haven't been particularly successful with that in skating's current format.  Right now, I'm imagining "competitions" like the old pro-ams and professional competitions, which screamed cheese and made the sport a joke.  If it's like that, I imagine that it'll just further kill the sport.

How Yuzuru has to win artistic program with constant bad posture and weak expression narration around him, even from his own coach?

[Yuzurella]

16 minutes ago, Henni147 said:

 

If the ISU doesn't like the excessive number of UR calls in the scoresheets, there is a very easy solution:

 

I put this in spoilers because 

  Hide contents

 

Step 1: Measure the exact number of rotations in the air in degrees.

Example: skater attempts a 4Lz and rotates 1 172° in the air (that equals ~ 3.25 rotations, which is quite common nowadays).

 

Step 2: Set an ideal number of rotations in the air (depending on the jump type and its mechanics).

Example: ideal rotation number for a 4Lz 4 × 360° = 1 440° (this is humanly possible because FaOI19).

 

Step 3: Calculate the relative number of rotations and factor it with the BV.

Example: 1 172° / 1 440° = 0.814.   BV factoring = 11.50 × 0.814 = 9.36.

 

In this system a heavily pre-rotated and over 90° short 4Lz would have a slightly lower BV than a fully rotated 4T, which is fair imo. And more importantly: it would solve all UR call problems in the future.

 

 

 

This looks like a fair and reasonable solution. It would make direct comparisons possible and create accountability... And that's exactly why the ISU would never even consider it!

And this would also require highly developed technical equipment and such. You know how the ISU doesn't have the money... blah, blah, blah...

 

One very simple solution to get rid of the most biased scoring and judging would be to just delete the highest as well as the lowest scores among all the scores given. This way, you can achieve a more even and fair score in an easy way. Extreme outliers would be eliminated. This would be simple, effective and not create any additional cost. Many judged sports introduced this successfully many years ago. So, why not figure skating, one has to wonder?

 

To be honest, I think the ISU doesn't even want judging to become more transparent, accountable or fair. After all, that would take away their power to, let's just say, steer the results in the right direction.

[Old Cat Lady]

2 minutes ago, Paskud said:

How Yuzuru has to win artistic program with constant bad posture and weak expression narration around him, even from his own coach?

 

uuuh, you do realize that when he skates near clean he gets the highest PCS scores with these "bad posture and weak expression narration" right?  The real question is "how can he win these when he won't bother entering a competition like that" but, as I've already said multiple times, I'm looking at it from the ISU perspective, not personal preference or what is likely to happen.

[Paskud]

7 hours ago, Old Cat Lady said:

 

uuuh, you do realize that when he skates near clean he gets the highest PCS scores with these "bad posture and weak expression narration" right?  The real question is "how can he win these when he won't bother entering a competition like that" but, as I've already said multiple times, I'm looking at it from the ISU perspective, not personal preference or what is likely to happen.

the highest PCS... sure...

Do you know what would be in ISU interest? To keep Yuzuru always somewhere high, but never allow him to win any big competition. To milk fans and at the same time crown their own champion. Two birds with one stone. Basically, what they are currently doing, but this time with more assurance, because artistic program will be less demanding physically.

[shanshani]

1 hour ago, Henni147 said:

 

If the ISU doesn't like the excessive number of UR calls in the scoresheets, there is a very easy solution:

 

I put this in spoilers because 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Step 1: Measure the exact number of rotations in the air in degrees.

Example: skater attempts a 4Lz and rotates 1 172° in the air (that equals ~ 3.25 rotations, which is quite common nowadays).

 

Step 2: Set an ideal number of rotations in the air (depending on the jump type and its mechanics).

Example: ideal rotation number for a 4Lz 4 × 360° = 1 440° (this is humanly possible because FaOI19).

 

Step 3: Calculate the relative number of rotations and factor it with the BV.

[EDIT] Example: 1 172° / 1 440° = 0.814.   BV factoring = 11.50 × 0.814^3 = 6.20.

 

In this system a heavily pre-rotated and over 90° short 4Lz would have a slightly higher BV than a fully rotated 3Lz, which is fair imo. And more importantly: it would solve all UR call problems in the future.

 

 

Spoiler

I totally agree that this is what they need to do, but I would make an amendment and say that the fraction of degrees you are short of the final rotation out of 360 should be the factor, and that factor should be applied to the BV difference between your jump and the next lower revolution version of the same jump. So for instance, if you need 1440 degrees for a true quad lutz, and you only rotate 3.25 revolutions/1170 degrees, the factoring is 0.25, and you would get 5.9 (the base value of 3Lz) plus 0.25 times the difference between the base value of 4Lz and 3Lz = 5.9+1.4 = 7.3 BV.

 

The reason for this is because under the method you described, a skater would get extra points for just calling a 3Lz a 4Lz. A 3Lz has 3/4s of the rotation of a 4Lz, so if you jumped a 3Lz and called it a 4Lz, you would still get a factoring of 0.75, and 0.75*11.5=8.625, higher than the BV of a 3Lz.

 

I would get rid of the mandatory GOE deductions for URs, because I think this is punishing enough. I would also have to think about the number of degrees each jump would have as a standard. It's impossible not to PR loops and salchows, PR is part of the mechanic of the jump, so having the full 1440 as the standard would be unfair, because if you actually jumped that many degrees you would overrotate them and probably fall. You might want to grant a little leeway too before skaters start being deducted. Though I would say for flips and lutzes, that leeway should be no more than 90 degrees. 

 

[shanshani]

52 minutes ago, Yuzurella said:

 

This looks like a fair and reasonable solution. It would make direct comparisons possible and create accountability... And that's exactly why the ISU would never even consider it!

And this would also require highly developed technical equipment and such. You know how the ISU doesn't have the money... blah, blah, blah...

 

One very simple solution to get rid of the most biased scoring and judging would be to just delete the highest as well as the lowest scores among all the scores given. This way, you can achieve a more even and fair score in an easy way. Extreme outliers would be eliminated. This would be simple, effective and not create any additional cost. Many judged sports introduced this successfully many years ago. So, why not figure skating, one has to wonder?

 

To be honest, I think the ISU doesn't even want judging to become more transparent, accountable or fair. After all, that would take away their power to, let's just say, steer the results in the right direction.

The scoring system already drops the highest and lowest scores for each element/PCS category. It actually doesn't make that much of a difference to scores.