General Yuzuru Chat

[kaeryth]

 

 

[kaeryth]

 

 

[Marte]

1 hour ago, Henni147 said:

 

This is just theoretical:

ISU allows you to jump two different quads plus one 3A in the short and seven quads plus two 3As in the free (nine quads plus three 3A in total).

The layout with the highest possible BV under current rules (without quints) is:

SP: 4A, 3A // 4Lz+3Lz (with change of rotation direction), CCoSp4, FLSp4, CCSp4, StSq4

BV: 53.44   max. GOE: 22.90   max. TSS (with 50 PCS): 126.34

FS (edited): 4T, 3A, 3Lz, 3F // 4A+4Lo, 4iA+4S, 3iA+4F+4Lz (with change of rotation direction)

(i = inside edge landing), FCCoSp4, CCoSP4, FCSp4, StSq4, ChSq1

BV: 129.07   max. GOE: 42.15   max. TSS (with 100 PCS): 271.22

Combined total: 397.56

Never say never, but I say that this will never happen 

 

People say that Nathan could land six quads plus one 3A in the FS:

4Lz, 4F, 4Lo, 4S, 4T (2×), 3A

I have my doubts that he can, but we will see.

 

why did you spoke it into existence?

all I know is that we'll become bald by the start of next season

 

1 hour ago, kaeryth said:

 

 

 

When they turned off the camera Yag bought half of that Yuzu stand, you can't change my mind 

[wildstrawberry]

 

 

[Sukigirl]

33 minutes ago, wildstrawberry said:

 

 

 

Good. Long overdue

[anski]

52 minutes ago, Marte said:

 

why did you spoke it into existence?

all I know is that we'll become bald by the start of next season

 

 

When they turned off the camera Yag bought half of that Yuzu stand, you can't change my mind 

I’m sure he did haha he’s the biggest Yuzu fan (that’s his new rivalry with Plushenko haha)

[kaeryth]

 

 

[yuzuangel]

7 minutes ago, kaeryth said:

 

 

👀

[Dreamer]

On 4/7/2019 at 5:42 AM, mercedes said:

a star House and a star Ferry Pier,can't think of better places to 'house' Yuzuru 

i would like to respectfully point out that those places are known as "The Star Ferry and Star House'

Capital S's to the star and THE STAR ferry 

[Ashley2162018]

8 hours ago, Henni147 said:

 

Sequences are not allowed in the SP plus the Axel jump (here 3A) cannot be repeated as a solo or combo jump. So the 4T+3A seq would be double-invalid. What he can do (and it's not unlikely imo): 4A, 3A, 4T+3T (+10%)

 

In the free... Beat me, but if he ever manages to do 4A, 4Lz AND 4F in the same program, he will say goodbye to 4Lo. That's my guess, since Yuzu said himself that the 4Lo depends too much on the ice conditions and is the least reliable quad (so it's not worth the low BV). [And it messes up the quality of his 4S...]

You could argue: "But what if Nathan lands 6 quads and outscores him on GOE and PCS?"

1. Nathan will have to deal with the 4Lo/4S rivalry and wonky conditions, too. So the chance that he skates clean with 6 quads is not very high. (Kudos to him, if he can, but I don't think it's very likely).

2. If Yuzu is able to do the 4A in both short and free, he will have the GOE advantage: The max. GOE for the 4A is 6.25. Even with average +3s he can score nearly 4 GOE. Add a 4Lz or 4F with 4 GOE and everyone can go home.

 

However. Yuzu's health has top priority at the moment and it's uncertain, if his ankle is able to bear so many quads... Let's say he jumps 10 quads per day and we have 200 practice days per season (is that realistic?) That would mean 6000 quads until Beijing... 

 

EDIT: I think the 350 point barrier is somewhere on the radar (SP 115 + FS 235). Incredibly hard, but not impossible. 400 points are impossible without multiple quintuples and I don't believe that we will see anyone surpassing it during the next cycles.

Thanks for the answers.

Nice to know new stuff every once and awhile.

[river]

3 hours ago, Henni147 said:

 

This is just theoretical:

ISU allows you to jump two different quads plus one 3A in the short and seven quads plus two 3As in the free (nine quads plus three 3A in total).

The layout with the highest possible BV under current rules (without quints) is:

SP: 4A, 3A // 4Lz+3Lz (with change of rotation direction), CCoSp4, FLSp4, CCSp4, StSq4   BV: 53.44

FS (edited): 4T, 3A, 3Lz, 3F // 4A+4Lo, 4iA+4S, 3iA+4F+4Lz (with change of rotation direction)

(i = inside edge landing), FCCoSp4, CCoSP4, FCSp4, StSq4, ChSq1   BV: 129.07

Never say never, but I say that this will never happen 

 

People say that Nathan could land six quads plus one 3A in the FS:

4Lz, 4F, 4Lo, 4S, 4T (2×), 3A

I have my doubts that he can, but we will see.

 

I think you could get your SP BV higher by doing 4Lz, 3A // 4A+3Lz for the jumps. You'd get the 4A bonus in the back half.

 

On a slow day at work, I came up with the equally silly and implausible FS layout of 3Lz, 3F, 3A, 4T // 4A+4S+4F, 4A+4Lo, 3A+4Lz, ChSq1, StSq4, FCCoSp4, FCSp4, CCoSp4 which ends up with the same BV (same jumps, same highest BV in the combo, just a different order). I think that's the highest you can push it until the ISU assigns quint jumps point values. It ends up with a max score of 271.22 (assuming all +5 GOEs and 100 PCS and that my math is right). I'm curious to see if anyone can come up with a higher scoring layout.

 

Yuzu, if you're lurking - this is purely a theoretical discussion, I don't want to see any clockwise rotated quads or back-half 4A combos from you next season.

[WinForPooh]

Since all these layouts are making my head spin, let me just go back to the Zu-zit convo and remind everybody that during the NHK-practice-horror where that damn snake 4Lz bit him in the ankle, Yuzu did have zits.

 

If you go back far enough, you may or may not find some of us trying to counter the stress of waiting for news by making up Yuzu limericks, which may or may not have referenced his zits pretty heavily, and the budding poets may or may not have been told off for being silly when everybody was stressed out.  

[Henni147]

 

32 minutes ago, river said:

I think you could get your SP BV higher by doing 4Lz, 3A // 4A+3Lz for the jumps. You'd get the 4A bonus in the back half.

Yo, thanks! That's true, 4A in the second half would be higher indeed  I've corrected it in this summary (I think this topic fits better in the layout thread)

 

15 minutes ago, Henni147 said:

My latest calculations in the general chat made me realize some really crazy things in the current scoring system. I'd like to summarize everything here:

 

1. Short program

The layout with the highest possible base value and scoring potential is the following:

  Reveal hidden contents

Element	BV	max. GOE	max. TES
4Lz	11.50	5.75	17.25
3A	8.00	4.00	12.00
X 4A+3Lz	20.24	6.25	26.49
CCSp4	3.20	1.60	4.80
FLSp4	3.20	1.60	4.80
CCoSp4	3.50	1.75	5.25
StSq4	3.90	1.95	5.85
Total	53.54	22.90	76.44

 

The 4A+3Lz combo with change of rotation direction is allowed, but I don't think that anyone will ever attempt it... Even a 4A+3T would be very ambitious, especially in the second half, but that might be possible. I was a bit surprised that layback spins have higher value than sit spins but... well whatever.

 

2. Free skating

Now it's getting interesting. To get the highest scoring layout, we need 11 jumps and repeat the quad and triple with the highest BV:

4A (2×), 4Lz, 4F, 4Lo, 4S, 4T, 3A (2×), 3Lz and 3F. Now we have to distribute them.

 

The layout with the highest possible base value would be this one:

  Reveal hidden contents

Element	BV	max. GOE	max. TES
4T	9.50	4.75	14.25
3A	8.00	4.00	12.00
3Lz	5.90	2.95	8.85
3F	5.30	2.65	7.95
X 4A+4Lo	25.30	6.25	31.55
X 4iA+4S	24.42	6.25	30.67
X 3iA+4F+4Lz	33.55	5.75	39.30
FCSp4	3.20	1.50	4.80
CCoSp4	3.50	1.75	5.25
FCCoSp4	3.50	1.75	5.25
StSq4	3.90	1.95	5.85
ChSq1	3.00	2.50	5.50
Total	129.07	42.15	171.22

 

We don't talk about the difficulty of the three combos, okay?  That little "i" means inside edge landing.

 

However, this is not the highest scoring layout, because the GOE for the solo triples is pretty low. For an ideal GOE output it's best to separate the seven highest scoring jumps and not to put them in combo (the 4A+4T is an exception, because a 4A+3A sequence would be a huge waste of BV):

  Reveal hidden contents

Element	BV	max. GOE	max. TES
4F	11.00	5.50	16.50
4Lo	10.50	5.25	15.75
4S	9.70	4.85	14.55
3A	8.00	4.00	12.00
X 4A+4T	24.20	6.25	30.45
X 4iA+3F+3Lz	26.07	6.25	32.32
X 3A+4Lz	21.45	5.75	27.20
FCSp4	3.20	1.60	4.80
CCoSp4	3.50	1.75	5.25
FCCoSp4	3.50	1.75	5.25
StSq4	3.90	1.95	5.85
ChSq1	3.00	2.50	5.50
Total	128.02	47.40	175.42

 

So 4+4 combos are not really worth the huge risk and effort. Not even in the second half, because the loss in GOE is higher than the 10% reward in BV.

 

 

I want to go away from ridiculous layouts and suggest one, which is extremely tough but realistic imo:

  Reveal hidden contents

SP:

Jumps: 4A, 3A // 4T+3T

Spins/Seq: FCSp4, CSSp4, CCoSp4, StSq4

BV: 49.17   Max. GOE: 21.80   Max. TES: 70.97   Max. TSS: 120.97

 

FS:

Jumps: 4A, 4Lz, 4F, 4S // 4T+3T, 3A+3T, 3A+1Eu+3S

Spins/Seq: FCSp4, CCoSp4, FCCoSp4, StSq4, ChSq1

BV: 104.17   Max. GOE: 44.65   Max. TES: 148.47   Max. TSS: 248.47

 

Max. combined total: 369.44

With this layout and two clean skates it's not impossible to surpass 350. The GOE potential is nearly maximized in both programs.

As a comparison the max. GOE for this season's layouts: Otonal: 20.40  Origin: 38.25

 

Maybe a 100% healthy Yuzu could do it, but I'm not sure, if his damaged ankle survives this... 5 quads and 2 triple Axels in 4:00... and we're talking about 4A, 4Lz and 4F in one program... 

 

 

A full-force SP and 6-quad-FS layout for Nathan could look like this (maybe he would work on a quad+1Eu+3S combo to replace the 2T+2T, but that wouldn't make much difference in points):

  Reveal hidden contents

SP:

Jumps: 4Lz+3T, 3A // 4F

Spins/Seq: CCSp4, FSSp4, CCoSp4, StSq4

BV: 49.40   Max. GOE: 22.05   Max. TES: 71.45   Max. TSS: 121.45

 

FS:

Jumps: 4Lz+3T, 4Lo, 4S, 3A // 4F, 4T+3T, 4T+2T+2T

Spins/Seq: CCSp4, CCoSp4, FCCoSp4, StSq4, ChSq1

BV: 101.48   Max. GOE: 44.40   Max. TES: 145.88   Max. TSS: 245.88

 

Max. combined total: 367.33

So we can see that a 5-quad-program from Yuzu with 4A, 4Lz, 4F could have a higher BV than a 6-quad-program from Nathan. The 4A, the additional 3A and the 10% bonus for the three combos make the difference.

 

@WinForPooh  I agree with you that the memories of the 4Lz injury are still vivid and practicing so many dangerous quads everyday will be very hard for him. I honestly don't believe that we will see five different quads in one program from him and my heart prays that it won't be necessary... I don't want to see that two skaters blow away the rest of the world with +100 points in the combined total. The gap between Yuzu, Nathan and the others is spooky enough already.

[shanshani]

39 minutes ago, WinForPooh said:

Since all these layouts are making my head spin, let me just go back to the Zu-zit convo and remind everybody that during the NHK-practice-horror where that damn snake 4Lz bit him in the ankle, Yuzu did have zits.

 

If you go back far enough, you may or may not find some of us trying to counter the stress of waiting for news by making up Yuzu limericks, which may or may not have referenced his zits pretty heavily, and the budding poets may or may not have been told off for being silly when everybody was stressed out.  

*is dealing with a breakout right now* Whaaaaat suddenly he’s 200% more relatable.  

[WinForPooh]

51 minutes ago, Henni147 said:

 

Yo, thanks! That's true, 4A in the second half would be higher indeed  I've corrected it in this summary (I think this topic fits better in the layout thread)

 

 

@WinForPooh  I agree with you that the memories of the 4Lz injury are still vivid and practicing so many dangerous quads everyday will be very hard for him. I honestly don't believe that we will see five different quads in one program from him and my heart prays that it won't be necessary... I don't want to see that two skaters blow away the rest of the world with +100 points in the combined total. The gap between Yuzu, Nathan and the others is spooky enough already.

 

Oh I'm just like... Yuzu will do what he'll do, I'm resigned to going out of my mind with worry, it's fine, everything's fine, nothing's on fire, he'll be fine. Fiiiiiine.