General Yuzuru Chat

[ruruzest]

and they said he’s inconsistent 

[Mastyaeva]

2 часа назад, cinemacoconut сказал:

 

 

Is is 100 percent confirmed he is in Faoi? 

I guess, 100% confirmation would be his name in the official site of the event, so, not yet. He might go, fingers crossed:-)

[xeyra]

35 minutes ago, ruruzest said:

and they said he’s inconsistent 

 

I was coming to post this! You beat me to it while I was busy doing the rest of the thread. 

[OonsieHui]

3 hours ago, micaelis said:

 

The major factor arguing against Yuzu's being the GOAT is his inconsistency.  Every time Yuzu takes to the ice there is the very real suspense over what he will do.  Johnny Weir, one time, when asked if Yuzu could be beat, said simply, 'Nobody can beat a perfect Yuzuru Hanyu'.  The qualifier there is 'perfect'.  The thing is that Yuzu is imperfect enough of the time to make every one of his skates a matter of high suspense.  Undoubtedly, I must say, Yuzu is definitely the greatest skater of the decade and I would even say, of the current century.  If he should go on to win a third time in Beijing, as one of the commentators stated in the IceNetwork article, there would be no doubt of his GOAT status.  That's why I'm saying 'Not yet'.  In the seasons that follow the one just completed there will be plenty of opportunities for Yuzu to show his stuff and there are two factors that I think will clinch the GOAT if he follows through on them.  One is his stated intention to compete as much as possible (dependent on his ankle condition).  The other thing is his statement that he now will not be designing his programs to win, but will instead the programs he truly wants to skate.  He'll probably still win often enough to maintain his one-to-beat ranking.  We must remember that a GOAT designation is not solely the product of wins, but rather the result of the nature of those wins.  Yuzu has won more than any other skater this decade by being the dominant quadster out there.  Sure, there are those who are doing more quads and those who have more quads in their arsenal, but as Johnny Weir put so clearly, 'It's not just the quads, it's the quality of the quads'.  Yuzu dominates in the quad competition by picking up more GOEs than the other skaters.

 

 

 

I see where you're coming from. 

 

But I would like to point out one minor thing. 

 

Coming from your own view that the major factor is Yuzu's inconsistency, I would then submit that even if he wins a third OGM in Beijing, it would not necessarily say anything about his consistency, and hence about him being the GOAT. What if he loses every competition between here and Beijing but then claims gold in Beijing? His "inconsistency" factor would still stand. If your main argument is for "consistency" then what you are essentially asking for him to have to be considered GOAT is for him to rule every single competition he is in, not about claiming another OGM. Which is a fair enough perspective for the admittedly subjective title of GOAT, but I just thought I would point that minor thing out. 

 

But also would like to point out that "inconsistent" for Yuzuru Hanyu is a silver. His "bad scores" are better than almost everyone elses "best scores". When he's "perfect" he doesn't just beat others, he decimates them. When he's done okay, others need to have done perfect to beat him. Almost always, its not that others beat him, its that he looses to them. Just the fact that he is held up to that higher standard is already indicative of him being on a higher level than everyone currently. 

 

Just my little thoughts  

 

 

[ruruzest]

My 2 cents 

Yuzu and his inconsistency :

why is Yuzu “inconsistent “ 

• his layout is extremely difficult 
• all the elements weaving together with transitions and ONE FOOT skatings that makes it extremely hard to carry out perfectly ( which he did many times ! ) and if you miss the timing or lose concentration for like one second ( which Yuzu mentioned that after his clean jump at Olympic then he stumbled a bit after that )
• his sickness, injuries, asthma  ...
• despite all those he still stays in the podium with either silver or mostly GOLD
• now I say that he is CONSISTENTLY doing very well  
• 
• Sorry to vent  but you all already know this and most importantly Yuzu knows this and being a very smart and strategical person , I wonder   why he still has the kind of intricate programs like those , he even adds on unnecessary difficult steps and spins that not necessarily accountable for points . 
• The answer is that he wants to have “performances that stay in the heart and soul of the audience “ ( quoting Yuzu) and while he’s at it , he gets the medals !!!!

[OonsieHui]

4 minutes ago, ruruzest said:

My 2 cents 

Yuzu and his inconsistency :

why is Yuzu “inconsistent “ 

• his layout is extremely difficult 
• all the elements weaving together with transitions and ONE FOOT skatings that makes it extremely hard to carry out if you miss the timing or lose concentration for like one second ( which Yuzu mentioned that after his clean jump at Olympic then he stumbled a bit after that )
• his sickness, injuries, asthma  ...
• despite all those he still stays in the podium with either silver or GOLD mostly
• now I say that he is CONSISTENTLY doing very well  
• 

 

Is there any other skater that is ALWAYS on the podium? Shoma maybe? 

[Sammie]

8 minutes ago, OonsieHui said:

 

Is there any other skater that is ALWAYS on the podium? Shoma maybe? 

Yeah I think the last time he was off the podium was Boston WC. That was his first season? 

[wpisces]

The only thing against him being GOAT and rightfully recognized is that he's Asian. If you notice, most of his fans are Asian or people of Asian descent. Sadly, his talent, his achievement and his place in history have never been deservedly recognized both by Western journalism and Western figure skating community ( which is big part of international fs community and much more powerful than Asian fs community). They can easily appriciate someone like Patrick Chan, Nathan Chen, even someone not too popular like Maxim Kovtun,Max Aron but they never give enough credit to Hanyu who has both artistry and outstanding technique ( not to mention his great achievement).  No matter he wins or loses, he is consistent or inconsistent, there are always people ( who even aren't haters ) downplay his abilities/chances. It's not like he is overshadowed by someone. We sometimes joke that if he were European or American, he would be called god of figure skating. But it's not joke. It's the truth. That is why I'm very happy that he won his second Olympic Gold. It somehow helps him have better place in history. If he had lost, there would be only his fans keeping in mind that he is legend and Western journalism would have excuse to deny his legend status. His win forced them to remember there is 2 times Olympic Champion Yuzuru Hanyu. 

[Victoria]

1 hour ago, OonsieHui said:

 

I see where you're coming from. 

 

But I would like to point out one minor thing. 

 

Coming from your own view that the major factor is Yuzu's inconsistency, I would then submit that even if he wins a third OGM in Beijing, it would not necessarily say anything about his consistency, and hence about him being the GOAT. What if he loses every competition between here and Beijing but then claims gold in Beijing? His "inconsistency" factor would still stand. If your main argument is for "consistency" then what you are essentially asking for him to have to be considered GOAT is for him to rule every single competition he is in, not about claiming another OGM. Which is a fair enough perspective for the admittedly subjective title of GOAT, but I just thought I would point that minor thing out. 

 

But also would like to point out that "inconsistent" for Yuzuru Hanyu is a silver. His "bad scores" are better than almost everyone elses "best scores". When he's "perfect" he doesn't just beat others, he decimates them. When he's done okay, others need to have done perfect to beat him. Almost always, its not that others beat him, its that he looses to them. Just the fact that he is held up to that higher standard is already indicative of him being on a higher level than everyone currently. 

 

Just my little thoughts  

 

 

This 100%

 

People will just keep moving the "GOAT" criteria, not matter what he achieves.

[golden]

rational me: yeah i get why its kind of redundant to try and determine one singular greatest skater when the sport is constantly evolving and the boundaries for greatness can vary from person to person

me thats lying in bed clicking replay on olympic chopin: its yuzu though

[yuzupon]

5 hours ago, Xen said:

Well, among the JPN male skaters- it's a war of the fanboys between Mitsuki Sumoto (when they interviewed him he showed them his giant collection of Yuzu clear files), Sota Yamamoto, Shingo Nishiyama (who trains at TCC), probably Shun Sato (who is from Sendai), and maybe lowkey Sena Miyake. 

 

Among the senior men-Yuzu stans Boyang's 4Lz, and Boyang stans him back. This is kind of why a lot of people want to root for Boyang to move to TCC, even if only for a short time (Brian's hair will be gone by the end of it).  And then there is Jason Brown, who wrote a message in Japanese at NHK 2017, and held it up in Kiss&Cry. 

There's Aliev, too.

 

4 hours ago, Neenah said:

Yuzu can invent new jumps and spins, win every single possible medal, and break WRs a dozen more times and he will not be GOAT simply because there will always be a new thing he must do for it. I personally hate this debate,  titles and labels people like to use and would rather he be just Yuzuru Hanyu tha amazing skater that he is . Yuzu doesn't need to prove anything or to live to any expectations anymore. He did what he wanted to do and more than was expected of him and he achieved a lot in his young life. What he did should be respected and admired without having "but" every time he is mentioned.

 

Yuzuru has done enough and no one has the right to tell him give more. 

4

Re the bolded part. Indeed. And as Alice once said:

 

---

If you insist on tagging on the but: but he didn’t win the free skate in PyeongChang, but he made mistakes both times at the Olympics, but he has been inconsistent and not completely infallible to losing, so on and so forth. Then I hope you are fully prepared to, after that, tag on the despite. Despite multiple career-threatening injuries, despite going into PyeongChang having restarted practice only mere weeks before, despite constantly facing pressure so great it is sheer unimaginable and almost inhuman to ask any normal young adult in their twenties to cope with (oh yes, don’t you ever forget that he was shouldering the expectation of an entire nation, because if you think that Nathan Chen was under too much pressure it affected his performance, then do consider that, had Nathan won Gold, he still wouldn’t have received a congratulation call from his head of state, even were the POTUS in power a decent human being who is competent at his job). 

 

But wait, there’s more, because after the but and the despite, there is the also that you should not miss out on, because winning 2 Olympic Golds is not everything Yuzuru Hanyu has done in the last Olympic cycle, far from it. He has also won 2 World Championships, medaled at two more, added 4 Grand Prix Final wins in a row to his resume, landed a quadruple jump nobody before him had succeeded in competition, stayed on top of the World Standings since December 2013. It was also from that date onward that every World Scoring Record in the men’s single discipline has been set and broken by him and him alone, 12 times.  

 

---

 

3 hours ago, Sombreuil said:

The GOAT business - could I care less?  It's just that we all know that if he were Japanese American there wouldn't be any question in Hersh's alleged mind?  Or indeed if Button had been Russian.... 

This is why, even if I personally would not care whether people agree he is GOAT or not, I get irritated anyway when they voice their reluctance to call him that. Because IF he had been American or European, they would have called him GOAT a long time ago.

 

2 hours ago, ruruzest said:

and they said he’s inconsistent 

I'm hoping, now that the Ladies has been shaken up a bit in term of consistency, this would not be a problem again. Cz let's be real. The claim that he is inconsistent is not because they are looking at the men's field and compare him to his contemporary rivals. It's because they compare his results to Medvedeva's.

[xeyra]

19 minutes ago, yuzupon said:

 

 

---

 

This is why, even if I personally would not care whether people agree he is GOAT or not, I get irritated anyway when they voice their reluctance to call him that. Because IF he had been American or European, they would have called him GOAT a long time ago.

 

I'm hoping, now that the Ladies has been shaken up a bit in term of consistency, this would not be a problem again. Cz let's be real. The claim that he is inconsistent is not because they are looking at the men's field and compare him to his contemporary rivals. It's because they compare his results to Medvedeva's.

 

Mostly, I think they compare his results to past male Champions.

[yuzupon]

4 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

Mostly, I think they compare his results to past male Champions.

That might be true as well. But what I've heard most about in the past two-three years is the comparison to Medvedeva. As in, 'Hanyu doesn't have Medvedeva's consistency'.

The comparison to past male champions usually come up in the debate of who is GOAT. As in, 'I think Button is GOAT cz in his time everytime he competed there was never a doubt that he would win'.

And to that point, the consistency of Yuzu vs. past male champions are still not being put into the context: of the depth of the field, and the 'despite' and 'also' points Alice raised. Hence, questionable as well.

[xeyra]

9 minutes ago, yuzupon said:

That might be true as well. But what I've heard most about in the past two-three years is the comparison to Medvedeva. As in, 'Hanyu doesn't have Medvedeva's consistency'.

 

To be fair, no one has Medvedeva's consistency. Comparing any man to her would be unfair. 

[yuzupon]

5 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

To be fair, no one has Medvedeva's consistency. Comparing any man to her would be unfair. 

Which is exactly why it was always eyerolling moment for me. With Zagitova's arrival, and subsequent meltdown, the Ladies now is shaken up a bit.