General Yuzuru Chat

[Xen]

2 minutes ago, wpisces said:

Some say that as personal opinion the first time they watch his performances.  In this case, I don't see their comment as "offensive". Many fans seem to be too sensible. They become offended whenever someone says they find him feminite as if they accused him of a crime. If they say that because they hate him, don't care about them. If they just express what they think, respect their opinion. 

That's fine. =) I only tend to have an issue with the idea when they use it to demean him, or any other figure skater, since it can extend in many ways to cover men in fields traditionally considered "feminine." Yuzu's skating is genderless for me anyways-it's just a very beautiful style, unbounded by gender norms. 

[SparkleSalad]

He appeals to me because he has a perfect mix of masculinity and femininity and his skating displays a deeper humanity because of it. I won't deny what's there because some people think femininity is unappealling or a negative trait for a man to have. I think he's incredibly lucky to be blessed with both sides. No man or woman who leans too heavily one way or the other can obtain this beauty of movement. I don't think it's anything like onnagata, either. He's not impersonaiting a woman, he's just expressing himself naturally.

[SparkleSalad]

42 minutes ago, BWOZWaltz said:

Sorry for multi post in a short time. I just want to share this with you guys. It is written in Japanese but I have put rough translation so it should be okay... 

 

羽生にフリル衣装は必要か？ Is frilled costume necessary for Hanyu?
｜ 
├　フリル衣装は必要だよ（衣装原理主義）

        Frills are necessity (costume fundamentalist) 
│　├　フリルは絶対必要、フリルが無いのは羽生と認めないよ（超急進派）

            Frills are the must, no frills no Hanyu (extremist)
│　├　フリル衣装の羽生だけが表彰台に上がるべき（序列主義）

            Only Hanyu with frills should be on podiums (hierarchist) 
│　├　フリル衣装の羽生なら後はいいよ（王道派）

            As long as there are frills, the rest is fine (main stream) 
│　├　フリル衣装は羽生の十八番だよ、ロマンだよ（浪漫派）

            Frills are the best bits, they make it romantic (romanticist)
│　├　2009-10シーズンの羽生はフリル衣装だからこその大躍進だよ（懐古派） 

            Frills gave Hanyu a big push in 2009 – 2010 season (old timer)
│　├　もっと素敵なフリル衣装が見たいなあ（夢想派） 

            Want to see more beautiful frilled costumes (dreamer)
│　└　とにかく自分はフリル衣装が好きなんだよ（利己主義） 

            I just love frilled costumes and that’s final (egoist)
｜ 
├　フリル衣装はあった方がいいよ（現状肯定派） 

            Vote for frilled costume (conservation)
│　├　だって実際にフリル衣装は似合うじゃん（単純理論）

            It’s true Hanyu looks good in frills (simple theory)
│　├　フリル衣装着ないとモチベが上がらないかもしれないじゃん（悲観主義） 

            What if he doesn’t get motivated without frills? (pessimist)
│　├　どうせ来シーズンもフリル衣装だよ（楽観主義） 

            Frills are in for the next season anyway (optimist)
│　├　羽生もフリル衣装を着たいと願ってるはずだよ（心情派） 

            I believe Hanyu is wishing to ware frilly one (sentimentalist)
│　├ 「フリルを着た阿修羅」が使えないじゃん（世俗主義）

             No frills? No “Frilly Asura*” then?! (commoners)
│　├　フリル衣装なら他の選手を油断させられるよ(戦術論派)

             Frills can divert competitors’ attention (strategist) 
｜ 
├　フリルはどっちでもいいよ（中道派） 

             Don’t mind frills or not (middle way)
│　├　フリルでもスケスケじゃない衣装もあるし（懐疑主義）

             There are frilled one without see-trough material though (skeptic)
｜　├　ビジューがシンプルならいいよ（要素主義）

             Frills but with simple bijous are okay (elementalism)
｜　├　フリル衣装が似合うのが羽生の特長だよ（個性派）

             Looks good in frills is a part of Hanyu’s character (character builder)
｜　├　それよりUAの話でもしようよ（練習着重視主義） 

Let’s just talk about UA instead (UA-list)
│　└　とにかく美しい衣装が見たいんだよ（審美主義） 

Just want to see a beautiful costume (aesthetic judge)
｜ 
├　その前に衣装を検証してみるよ（実証主義） 

Should analyze costumes first (analyst)
│　├　フリル衣装のクワド確率はこうなってるよ（確率論） 

Stats for quad success rate in frills are here (probability theory)
│　├　フリル衣装を人類で最初に衣装に取り入れたのは羽生じゃないよ（古文書学派）

The first frilled costume in the history is not worn by Hanyu (paleographer)
｜　└　ビジューをいかにして落とさないように止めるか（ステファニー・ハンドラー） 

The key is how to glue bijous securely (Stephanie Handler)
｜ 
├　フリルの衣装を着るには…（指導論） 

How to wear frilled costumes (guidance)
│　├　デザインはまたジョニーに依頼すればいいよ（保守派）

 Let Johnny design it again (conservative)
│　├　フリルに似合う少し長めの髪型がいいよ（板前反対派） 

Longish hair suits better with frills (no chef’s hair cut)
│　├　セパレートよりツナギの方がジャンプ跳びやすいよ（ケヴィン派）

 Jumpsuit is better for jumping than separate one (Kevin fan)
｜ 
├　フリル衣装は必要ないよ（フリル衣装否定派） 

No frills necessary for costume (anti-frills)
│　├　とにかく絶対必要ないよ（超シンプル主義） 

No frills what’s so ever (super simple life)
│　├　お金がかかるからいらないよ（節約主義）

Frills cost money so no (budget conscious)
│　├　フリルだけが衣装じゃないよ（ポストモダン派）

There are more to costumes than frills (post-modernist)
│　├　他にすることあるだろう（演技原理主義） 

First things first (performance fundamentalist)
│　├　フリル衣装見てても面白くないよ（快楽主義）

No frills give me thrills (epicurean)
｜　├　だってゲイだと思われる（差別主義者） 

They will judge it as gay (biased)
｜　└　フリルの話したら荒れるもん（2ch依存症） 

Frill talk cause thread to burn! (2ch addict)
｜　└　パリ散はフリル無しでも100点数超えたじゃん（功利主義） 

PW exceeded 100pt without frills (utilitarian)
｜ 
└　羽生にはこれからも期待しているよ（変衣装友の会）

Looking forward to Hany’s future costumes (wired costume enthusiasts)
└　しかしママン衣装のクオリティは凄かったね（古典派）

Indeed, the costumes made by mum were awesome! (antiques lover)

 

 

It looks like Yuzu with frills is something that Japanese fanyus are intrigued about for some time.

But in the end, you gotta love him as a whole

 

This is... incredbly comprehensive! 

[Aotoshiro]

2 minutes ago, Sombreuil said:

Historically in Europe the men of the aristocracy were as flamboyantly dressed as the women - power dressing meant silk and velvet and lace, jewellery, make up, wigs - the works:- there are several Restoration comedies on in the West End and at Stratford at the moment and the costumes are fabulous - @Xen is right, it was the late Georgian/Victorian era that gradually dulled down men's fashion.

Yep, and historically you also didn't show your masculinity through your looks but your results-central Europe here *waves*. You could be all small and girlish (which actually was frowned upon as not-fitting not because of how it looked, but because man was supposed to care for a woman while still respecting her, and 'girly' was considered parodying and therefore belittling-though this part somehow got lost in 17th century- especially since, let's face it, a woman managing a fieldwork and work around the house had to be everything but fragile, weak, stupid, etc whatever is associated with feminine now) if you also had something else to show off. So, you could be as bulky as you wanted, but if you had no results-no big family, fertile lands, or, in war time, no battle with foes defeated- you were considered nothing. On the opposite, if you were tiny but hard-working and it was showing, you could be respected-there's a reason why we have those stories about inch tall people becoming heroes.

 

If we were looking only at a perspective of masculinity, in medieval and a bit of later times, Yuzuru would definitely be considered more masculine than people commenting on his appearance  

Spoiler

Also, it might be myself, but just like with the whole dance has to be romantic stereotype, I don't get the idea of Western masculinity vs Eastern masculinity. It's a question of confidence vs fragility imo, and people attacking others as too much of the opposing sex type are usually the fragile part, being envious of confidence with which a too-much person stays themselves despite supposedly being outside of the frame of comfort set by their gender. Maybe they are just unaware the frame can be considered a boundary?

 

[lilsailor]

47 minutes ago, Lilona said:

I need to put my grain of salt here bcs I saw on Twitter some Fanyu fan acc for laughs with app (?) put make-up on some figure skaters (like Yuzu, Shoma, Nate and Boyang oO).

I understand we all can and love to joke but I think that there must be some bottom line? Or am I just overreacting?

I really don't like this type of jokes...

uh personally im ok w it? like i dont get why its offensive? 

[SparkleSalad]

I think what everybody needs right now is a Beyonce tribute.

 

 

[Fay]

30 minutes ago, Bilge said:

can't they just upload Yuzu's sp already  I don't want to wait another year  (I already watched all videos but it doesn't feel complete without the olympic channel post)

It’s kinda uploaded here, as a matter of fact. Or do you want a YT video? 

https://www.olympicchannel.com/en/playback/yuzuru-hanyu-and-a-shower-of-bears/

[raebia]

Just my thoughts: 

 

some posts before there was this qoute of Yuzus that he likes that he can express his emotions while skating.

 

What drew me to him in a heartbeat was in Nice how emotional he was and how it reached out to me. And this is still a wonder to me: he gives all his his emotions while skating, totally honest, and at the same time he is in competition and wants to win. Totally honest.

 

I will never get this equated and I don ´t need to..I have come to the conclusion that this is what makes him the GOAT😄.

 

So this is more the riddle I see before me, somehow I never think about masculine/feminine with him.

 

Greetings😊

[BWOZWaltz]

21 minutes ago, kiches said:

 

Thanks for sharing your take on Yuzu, I found it very interesting to read!

 

What you said about Asura and demon reminds me a bit of a conversation some friends and I were having about Yuzu and how some skating fans (maybe they are Western, maybe not) see him as feminine. We all find Yuzu to be masculine on ice. I also said if were to characterize him I’d say he’s a competitive athlete first, and Japanese second. What I mean is that Yuzu is of course, very polite and pays a lot of attention to detail in terms of his surroundings. Yet he’s extremely competitive, and that is something typically associated with traditional views of masculinity. At times I think his competitiveness leaks through when he’s not on ice and he says something that shows clearly that he believes he’s the best with a comment that would probably not be taken as humble. 

 

 

Yuzu has polite manner and pays so much attentions to his surroundings not just people but also towards things animals, bugs, etc.  He is really humble most of the time but when it comes to fs, his passion sometimes takes over. In the past (or even on-going), he's accused for being too arrogant over some comments that he made about competition or fellow skater or so on. Being humble is considered virtue in many countries and in Japan, people almost automatically do so out of social custom or kind of obligation to do with the person's standing within a particular situation. So if someone is expected to be (or act) humble but the person doesn't show enough humility, they get frowned upon. Yuzu's confidence sometime comes across as a kind of arrogant. Fanyus love him for whatever but haters use it to try convincing people to turn against him. Act out of jealousy is the root of these behaviour I believe.

 

I do not actively search but if you do twitter or any of the SNS, you might see some posts from haters. But who cares? I don't. Someone's trash is someone's treasure. I just treasure what I can and when I can for as long as possible. There's always people like that.

[BWOZWaltz]

28 minutes ago, SparkleSalad said:

 

This is... incredbly comprehensive! 

 

I think us Japanese have strange way to show appreciation...

The site is for skating otaku so it must be a otaku trait to have that much passion about something they care about (of course I'm including myself in that)

[Bilge]

6 minutes ago, Fay said:

It’s kinda uploaded here, as a matter of fact. Or do you want a YT video? 

https://www.olympicchannel.com/en/playback/yuzuru-hanyu-and-a-shower-of-bears/

Thank you!! i remember times people used the link to watch but it didn't opened when i tried, now it does^^

[WinForPooh]

You know, before we went down all those roads, what I was actually going to post was in reply to the video of Yuzu singing Nessun Dorma. What if that's one of his cryptic hints? What if he'd going to skate to it?

 

I'm kidding, he wouldn't right after Shoma did it.

 

Or would he? Who knows, with him?

[Hanmgse]

Just now, WinForPooh said:

You know, before we went down all those roads, what I was actually going to post was in reply to the video of Yuzu singing Nessun Dorma. What if that's one of his cryptic hints? What if he'd going to skate to it?

 

I'm kidding, he wouldn't right after Shoma did it.

 

Or would he? Who knows, with him?

no way 

[yuzuangel]

2 hours ago, Xen said:

From a chinese perspective, I've barely met any male rinkmates who consider Yuzu "feminine." Usually in Chinese, when we say "xxx is very feminine" (especially in a negative way) it is in reference to attitude, behavior and mannerisms. Very few guys I know of who watch figure skating, would consider Yuzu "feminine" in that way. His competitive attitude, and his mentality are both considered very "masculine."

 

If you've watched a lot of Yuzu's skating, then he probably doesn't come across as particularly feminine, because he is so powerful, strong, and tough. But my cousins who are Taiwanese all thought he looked very feminine (fyi they only watched Swan because it was on TV so...) so there will be mixed opinions even from an Asian/chinese perspective. But they did NOT mean it in the negative way that you say (attitude, behavior, mannerisms, although it's sad that "feminine" has those connotations). They just meant he looks very beautiful in a way that usually only girls do

[WinForPooh]

37 minutes ago, SparkleSalad said:

I think what everybody needs right now is a Beyonce tribute.

 

 

It's the penguin that caught me by surprise.