General Yuzuru Chat

[Sombreuil]

It's bad for the athletes and that's the worst part. It's bad for the spectators at the arena - I'm sure even if we haven't been reading the thread we've seen the angst over travel arrangements on this forum, which are probably a lot worse because of moving about early in the mornings over a public holiday.  It's irritating for non American latitude(or do I mean longitude- can never remember) watchers because while I wouldn't have a problem getting up at 1 if that was what local time required and it was best for the competition it annoys me that it's for the benefit of one country's sponsors.  You can't blame NBC for throwing money at it, but I do blame the IOC for being greedy enough to take it.

[Sombreuil]

6 minutes ago, yuzuangel said:

 

thebackthebackthebacktheback

 

why does nathan look hunched here? is it an optical illusion

It's the angle - it's either before he squares his shoulders into the turn or that damned costume bunching up.

[raebia]

6 hours ago, Floria said:

Find 10 differences...

 

 

 

I don‘t know...keep thinking about it for hours now.

 

There IS a difference, a very important one, I just can‘t put it into words?

 

Nathan enters a competition. Yuzu enters a competition and an artistic performance.

 

I am sure of it. It speaks in every move. It is about sports, okay, but it is also about skating as an art form.

 

. I have no words. 

 

Sigh. 

[Xen]

7 minutes ago, Sombreuil said:

It's the angle - it's either before he squares his shoulders into the turn or that damned costume bunching up.

No, his head and body is leaning too forward and downward (his head did look more down than straight and up), not projecting outward. The stiffer knees don't help since his edge is not as sure, and he doesn't...glide as much. Nate is fine as a jumper, and skating skills wise he's alright. I get the rush to do well at Olys, but I wish there was a little less rush. 

[micaelis]

39 minutes ago, Xen said:

Also, I find it funny that most of the people I know who have had more systemic dance training (ballet or traditional chinese here), have very little to complain about his posture and carriage. 

Actually, Kurt Browning on CBC, who as a four-time world champion probably has experience and knowledge behind him, has on more than one occasion praised Yuzu in his jumps for having a totally relaxed torso, with no tensing and straining into, through, and out of his jumps.  He's the one who once remarked that some jumps were made in heaven and Yuzu's just the one to grab them and do them.

[Murieleirum]

1 hour ago, Xen said:

No, his head and body is leaning too forward and downward (his head did look more down than straight and up), not projecting outward. The stiffer knees don't help since his edge is not as sure, and he doesn't...glide as much. Nate is fine as a jumper, and skating skills wise he's alright. I get the rush to do well at Olys, but I wish there was a little less rush. 

 

I feel like his neck is also tense, right? While Yuzuru looks relaxed from head to toe. Also, the way Yuzuru takes that curve with one foot is so smooth and easy, while you can see Nathan kinda pushing with his body to make the turn - at least, that's what I see. I see Nathan making a lot of stiff, useless movements while Yuzuru glides effortlessly and with style. 

[guitarist]

1 hour ago, Xen said:

No, his head and body is leaning too forward and downward (his head did look more down than straight and up), not projecting outward. The stiffer knees don't help since his edge is not as sure, and he doesn't...glide as much. Nate is fine as a jumper, and skating skills wise he's alright. I get the rush to do well at Olys, but I wish there was a little less rush. 

Well, I think the problem with Nate in the clip Floria posted is that he hasn't quite learned that "less is more." I don't think he's incapable of gliding more effortlessly, I think he's trying to look intense because that's what the song is asking for, but he's overdoing it. This translates into skating that looks laboured and rough around the edges. This is a problem common to younger skaters, or any discipline that involves artistry, really. I see this with young classical musicians all the time, for example. In fact, I used to do it too, by accident, which made my poor teacher go . 

 

I have high hopes for Nathan becoming a much more complete skater, but I don't really expect that to happen anytime soon. I don't see him as an arrogant skater at all, so I think it's a matter of his team pointing out he has to improve on those skills. Now, whether that will actually happen, when his team is clearly all about making excuses, is a completely different matter... 

[Aotoshiro]

1 minute ago, guitarist said:

Well, I think the problem with Nate in the clip Floria posted is that he hasn't quite learned that "less is more." I don't think he's incapable of gliding more effortlessly, I think he's trying to look intense because that's what the song is asking for, but he's overdoing it. This translates into skating that looks laboured and rough around the edges. This is a problem common to younger skaters, or any discipline that involves artistry, really.

This this this!

Yuzu is playful as if showing off new trick, where he is absolutely confident he will have fun, and his audience with him, while Nathan focuses himself too much on making the Stare That Will Bring The Audience In, so his whole body tenses, giving off the Do Not Approach Me body language vibe! I have this weird flashback to our horse riding instructor telling ius to never approach a horse with tensed shoulders or upper body at all, coz it will scare it. Nate would probably do just that. In Yuzu's case, the horse can at best be startled by all the sparkles and quick movements lol.

[Murieleirum]

48 minutes ago, guitarist said:

I have high hopes for Nathan becoming a much more complete skater, but I don't really expect that to happen anytime soon. I don't see him as an arrogant skater at all, so I think it's a matter of his team pointing out he has to improve on those skills.

 

Yup, like you said it happens so many times with classical music, you can be an artist inside but if the teacher doesn't guide you, doesn't give you the technical knowledge to direct that feeling into something really high quality - if the teacher is not a good teacher, the student is going to go forward as much as the teacher lets him. 

[micaelis]

1 hour ago, Aotoshiro said:

Yuzu is playful as if showing off new trick, where he is absolutely confident he will have fun, and his audience with him, while Nathan focuses himself too much on making the Stare That Will Bring The Audience In, so his whole body tenses, giving off the Do Not Approach Me body language vibe!

Kurt Browning one time remarked that Yuzu is the only skater he knows who can have the audience totally riveted on him while he's standing out there doing absolutely nothing.  Truer words were never spoken.

[sweetwater]

10 hours ago, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In all fairness to Iron Klaus, whose interpretation is indeed sometimes questionable, and with all due respect to @sweetwater, of whom Japanese is a native language, I don't find the choice of word "inferior" wrong per se, contextually. I'd say it's pretty accurate and even natural when translated into English. "Monotarinai" does indeed indicate inferiority in this particular context.

 

I think the whole problem, though, is that part was phrased as a question originally, and Iron Klaus' mistake was overlooking that and making it come out as more a statement. So I would say @sweetwater's phrasing with IK's  choice of words would be pretty accurate. I myself would probably have used the word "lacking" which holds the connotation of inferior in this context, which is why I think IK's choice in words isn't fundamentally wrong  at all.

 

So, "(as a ballet dancer yourself) do you find him inferior to those two/lacking when compared to those two?" would be a pretty accurate translation, I'd think. And the question itself is a fair one, seeing as how people always like to talk about ballet in fs like it's the only artistic requirement, and specifically comparing one skater with another*, so I'd say it couldn't be directed at a more appropriate person. 

 

*Taking Hanyu out of the equation altogether, I think the more they put the word "ballet" and "Nathan Chen" in the same sentence, the less favors they are doing him. Because even if US media keeps hammering it into our heads and the scoring reflects their words, Chen's  performances don't. Like it's one thing if he actually successfully translates what he's learned into his competition skates, which signs aren't there no matter how much the US media and the judges try to put it into our heads that they are so we'd be able to imagine them into reality the way they seem to be doing, but it's quite another if we only really get to see it in galas, where he no longer has to focus on successfully landing his quads and 3A. Like if they didn't do that, we'd try to focus on his positives instead. This is virtually forcing us the focus on his negatives.

 

Sorry it's very long

 

I can agree with you on how to interpret the original question and how Iron Klaus translated it in his/her tweet. However, the reason why I posted my own translation of the original question was to make it clear that no one actually stated that Yuzu was inferior to Nathan or Tatsuki in that question as a fact. My stress was on the bolded part. 

 

I don’t know if the person who asked the question was Iron Klaus himself/herself, but I don’t think the person is thinking Yuzu is inferior to Nathan or Tatsuki. Midori Terada is known for liking Yuzu (she often praises Yuzu in her tweets and was very sympathetic toward him when he injured himself at NHK. Her tweet after NHK was shared and liked by many fans), so I think the person asked the question knew that she would not criticize Yuzu just because he hasn’t learned ballet. So if I would revise my translation listening to your opinion as a native English speaker, I would alter “do you feel there's anything you miss in him” into “do you feel anything is lacking in him”, but I wouldn’t rephrase it into something like “do you think he is inferior to Nathan and Tatsuki” because if the person wanted to be direct and use the negative word, he/she could have done it. Also, the person is using Nathan and Tatsuki just as examples. He/She is not asking for a direct comparison.

 

What I meant in my second post was that when sharing information which includes something negative (like bad news regarding injury, harsh criticism from someone, etc.), it's better to be careful, because otherwise, the information could cause unneeded trouble. This is what I'm saying to myself too.

 

About balletic Nathan vs. Yuzu, I probably feel quite different from some fans in the US, because, in Japan, Nathan is being introduced mainly as a strong contender equipped with various types of quads. For me, that Nathan has learned ballet is just a fact. It doesn’t affect how I see his performance. Yuzu’s lack of experience in ballet doesn’t affect how I see his performance either.

 

By the way, Tetsuya Kumakawa also made a favorable comment on Yuzu in the past.
Source
Translation of Yuzu-related part by yuzusorbet
I don’t quite understand what he means in the part he talks about “plié”, but I always find it’s intriguing (especially the part about the awareness).

[yuzupon]

7 hours ago, Katt said:

Its NBC, they want it in US prime time.  This has nothing to do with Nathan because it was decided way before his breakthrough last season and many people complained about it. All the figure skating events, even the gala start in morning  and only ladies's have a day rest between. 

 

7 hours ago, ruruzest said:

I hate us media deciding this without any concerns about athletes 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Sombreuil said:

It's bad for the athletes and that's the worst part. It's bad for the spectators at the arena - I'm sure even if we haven't been reading the thread we've seen the angst over travel arrangements on this forum, which are probably a lot worse because of moving about early in the mornings over a public holiday.  It's irritating for non American latitude(or do I mean longitude- can never remember) watchers because while I wouldn't have a problem getting up at 1 if that was what local time required and it was best for the competition it annoys me that it's for the benefit of one country's sponsors.  You can't blame NBC for throwing money at it, but I do blame the IOC for being greedy enough to take it.

 

Under spoiler because it's an ugly stuff I am regretfully bringing here. Mods, if it needs to be deleted, just do it, and perhaps let me know?

Spoiler

 

Commenting on this since I've been eyeballs deep into the recent sentencing hearing of a certain court case involving a prominent governing sports body in the US - for which I've repeatedly emptied my stomach (this was what I watch back and forth with watching 4CC - what a joy).

I know that this does not apply to all sports feds, and I sure hope to God, not in Figure Skating. I would like to believe, and am praying, that this case is the exception, not the rule. My sceptical self is not convinced, tho.

What I am trying to say here, is that this case demonstrates, that at the very least, there is a sport feds in the US who care very little about their athletes. And, that the USOC is seriously lacking in their oversee over the different feds under them. How can we then expect better from the media? It's all 

On that note, excuse me while I go vomit again.

 

4

 

[Sombreuil]

Nathan's stiffness is partly lack of flexibility in his knees - lack of the plié - those almost straight legged landings which make me wince as I imagine the jolt through the leg and up through the body.  Shoma has almost the opposite - the deep knee bend coupled with a wrench to get the rotation which is equally wince making, but because of the torque on those joints rather than the jolt.  I'm not expressing this well but I bet there are a few people here who know what I mean.

[micaelis]

6 hours ago, raebia said:

13 hours ago, Floria said:

 

 

 

I don‘t know...keep thinking about it for hours now.

 

There IS a difference, a very important one, I just can‘t put it into words?

 

Nathan enters a competition. Yuzu enters a competition and an artistic performance.

 

I am sure of it. It speaks in every move. It is about sports, okay, but it is also about skating as an art form.

If you look closely you'll see that Yuzu is far more relaxed than Nathan.  I think it's probably a product of the fact that Yuzu's programs are choreographed to allow him to move in ways that are totally comfortable.  His ability to achieve top speed with minimal effort is almost legendary, and I think that allows him to concentrate his energies on the moves (jumps and spins primarily) that require an expenditure of effort.  Carol Lane once commented that Yuzu expends no unnecessary energy.  I think that's apparent in this little snippet. 

 

Why this is might be a product of his problems with asthma.  I'm sure all of us know of those times in his early years when Yuzu after a skate has sometimes been on all fours on the ice trying to recover his breath.  Those times seem quite ancient now and I feel that Yuzu on top of probably having engaged in all kinds of aerobic exercise to improve his stamina also makes sure that the programs he skates are designed so that there will be no gasping for breath once the music stops and he takes his bows.  In order to accomplish that Yuzu and his choreographers have designed his routines to give him pauses during the skate to recover his breath (not a strategy that is unique to his team but done with a keen awareness of the dangers if he is starved for oxygen, which is probably an element only his team has to take into account), and I would not be surprised if they've taken advantage of these pauses to put in all the nice little gambits that give his skates the artistic touches that rake in the PCS points.  It's a clever way of killing two birds with one stone. 

 

I think the other thing, not necessarily apparent in this little four second vid, and this is sheer speculation on my part, is that Yuzu's routines are plotted out in some detail before they contemplate when the jumps will come.  They'll have a general idea of the sequence of  the jumps but where they will be specifically in the program is only vaguely known and it's when the other stuff is pretty well set up that they insert the jumps.  It's been remarked that Yuzu rarely telegraphs when a jump is approaching and again that is probably a result of the fact that the jumps are inserted in the program and the program is not built up around the jumps as I'm certain is the case with Nathan and many of the other skaters.  All of this, of course, the choreographers can do because they realize that with Yuzu's ability to enter jumps with virtually no preparation they can, indeed, arrange things so that they provide maximum comfort and maximum artistic effect.

[Pammi]

I'm gonna be brave and go  for just a moment! I saw this and thought it a rousing YUZU!ANTHEM for Olys and thought you might miss it if it wasn't on general thread so:

Just have a quick look, I hope it'll make you feel ready for the excitement of seeing Yuzu skate again!! C'mon Yuzu!!