sallycinnamon

An interview with one of the technical panel members of Europeans 2020 has been published recently and I thought it could be interesting to share. The TP member was Slavka Grincova (Slovakia), who worked as the Assistant Technical Specialist in the TP in both the rhythm dance and free dance at Europeans and she talked about the judging at the European Championships, why it took so much time for Papadakis/Cizeron's scores to come out, about their skating, and judging in ice dance in general. I just put the text to google translate and corrected it in many parts, I was now too tired to translate the whole thing because it is a long interview. But it is quite understandable I think. Sorry if there are any parts that aren't correct (grammar etc) though. The technical specialist talked about many interesting things although I felt in some of her answers that she was a bit cautious. * Original interview is here: https://www.bumm.sk/sport/2020/02/08/hosszu-pontozas-meglepo-eredmeny-egy-bennfentest-kerdeztunk-a-jegtanc-eb-rol * Long Waiting, Surprising Result - We Asked An Insider About the Ice Dance Event at the European Championships 2020 To the biggest surprise, former French champions Papadakis/Cizeron - who's been dominant for a long time - has lost to Sinitsina/Katsalapov by 0.14 point at the European Championships in Graz. Slavka Grinčová from Košice (Slovakia) was the technical assistant specialist at the Ice Dance event and we asked her what had happened there. - 0.14 points is a very minimal difference. What decided between the French and the Russian couple? Slavka Grincova: Both pairs represent very high levels, but they were different. The Russians showed a more classic style, while the French presented a modern one with modern choreography. From a technical point of view, however, both pairs are at the top and they have also received tens in the second score from the judges. Apart from these two couples, no one else could get 10s. Even after the rhythm dance, the difference between the French and the Russians was minimal, 0.05 points. So the whole race (for the gold medal) basically started from the start in the free dance. The question was what they (judges) prefer and how can the two couples skate technically. I can honestly say that both couples made minor mistakes, but the French did more than expected. They didn't skate as cleanly as we were used to. - The French had to wait for their points for an unusually long time, even five to six minutes. What happened? SG: Already at the beginning of the free dance of the French couple, we were told that the video recorder was not working. The whole system has crashed. Suddenly, the rhythm dance elements from the day before popped up on our computers, and when the French finished their program, we couldn't replay the elements. We were later given permission to go down the ice where to the only computer was that recorded the program so that we could control the technical value of the elements. The technical panel determines the levels for each element, from 1 to 4 based on technical difficulty, based on certain criteria. In the technical panel we watch the skates (/boots) themselves, while the judges have to evaluate the program as a whole. - To the laymen, both free dances were beautiful. In which was were the Russians better? SG: A specialist sees these things a little differently. The free dance of the French couple is beautiful, excellent, innovative, I have no objection against it. I like when people are brave to be innovative, not conservative on the ice. After the competition, however, there were opinions that the steps of the Russians were harder, they were skating closer to each other in harder positions, while the French were often skating hand in hand. It suits their style, but it makes it a little easier. The Russians put together a harder program. These were the first opinions we heard from the background. However, this is not how we perceive the program in the technical panel. We watch if somebody falls down or stumbles, and if so, it happens whether it happens during executing an element, or between elements...We watch the technical stuff at the competition, we (enjoy) the experience only during the practices. During the competition, we must focus strictly on the individual elements. The final result then comes from the evaluation of the technical panel and the judges. We look at if the skaters meet the criteria technically, and the judges if it the skate was light, fast, the gliding was on the ice, and whether there was a harmony with the music… - Everyone can see when a figure skater makes a mistake in a jump, but in ice dancing, details are decided that are hard to see by the layman. What exactly is the technical panel watching? SG: We receive the planned layout of the skaters, and during the training we check to see if what they have as planned is what they practice or they change something in the program. In the competition, ice dancers can't change the layout just like figure skates do, like if someone misses a jump, they can change the layout completely. There are three of us sitting in the technical panel, one is the specialist who is now watching the woman and telling the items first, and the other is his/her assistant, who is evaluating the man this season. When the lady's levels are announced, she the immediately tells the man's level. Or he says "review", which means that the man has achieved a different level from the woman, usually lower, and in that case we will check the element afterwards. The steps that we are watching remained here from the era of compulsory figures. We look at whether the competitor makes the move from the right edge or if theey switch to the other edge to make things easier. If we look at their skates, we can see how nervous the athlete is and whether their feet are shaking. Unfortunately, they can lose levels in cases like this because if you can't complete all the steps and turns from start to finish without stumbling, skipping the curve (basically missing to do it), then they don't get the level. - In what quality can you play back the program again? SG: The recording and playback are both very high quality, but we only have one camera. We do not see the camera angles that viewers watch on TV because it distorts it a bit. They show the skater once from the right, sometimes from the left, then only the legs and then the upper body ... Just as the judges sit in the same place all the time, so does our camera. If something does not look good in the recording, we always decide for the benefit of the competitor. But the truth is, the more we replay, the more errors we find. That's why we try to check as few things as possible afterwards, really only to replay an element if we weren't sure. - In Graz, they say that mostly the one-foot step sequence of the French couple needed to be reviewed, which is why the scoring was delayed. Is this true? SG: The one-foot step sequence of the French couple was lower than level 4 so we wanted to check it again. The tech controller also said that he wanted to have a look at it again. That is why we went down to the ice to the so-called cutter, who cuts the videos because he had the only recording on his computer. We quickly checked the element in question, as it ( the StSq) might take 10 seconds, so even if you looked at it four times, it is still only forty seconds. But because our computers got crashed, the time had passed. - Gabriella Papadakis later said as she waited for the scores, she had already guessed that there was something wrong, because if it takes a long time, usually nothing good comes out of it. SG: The system collapsed when they were called to ice. If it hadn't been recorded at all, we would have had to decide for the benefit of the skaters based on what we saw with our eyes only. But it would not have been fair to the others to give the French the highest scores, because after their skate we couldn't have checked whether they were really wrong or not. Give level 4 to everything because we can't rewatch the elements - the controller also said we can't decide this way, he disagreed, he wanted to see the review if it was possible to find the recording somewhere in the system. The review itself didn't last long, just the system crashed. - Many in social media shared an article that was written before the free dance, and in which the coach of the French couple, Romain Haguenauer talked about the judges being told in the pre-competition meeting not to give as many 10s in the second score, in the components. Did the judges really get such a guidance? SG: Our panel does not participate in judging meetings. We are two separate panels and during the competition we do not really communicate, we decide on different things independently. So I don't know what the referee said before the competition, but the French got eight 10s, the Russians nine 10s, combined differently from the judges, so they were pretty much the same. - This time (in the free dance) there was no French judge in the judging panel. Could this have been decisive? SG: With such good couples, when they are all at such a high level, it does not matter whether or not there was a French judge in the panel. The point is how the program is presented in at a given competition. The judges do not know what levels we give, nor do we see what score they give. So the result is only revealed to us when it appears on the big screen. - So were you surprised that the Russian couple won? SG: We started off from the fact that the competition basically started from zero in the free dance, and we have seen that there were mistakes in the step sequence of the French couple. They got the levels they were performed, but I didn't know how the judges would score them. When I saw that the Russians were still in first place after the free dance of the French, I was a bit surprised, but not in the sense that something incredible had happened. - The French skated in the free dance to an unusual music with voiceovers. What is your opinion on this? SG: They are the best couple and they have the right to experiment with it, because they are the ones who set the trends. If this is done by a couple who are just trying to get out (for the first time) for a big competition, the judges might even punish them a bit. But when the best couple come up with new thoughts and ideas, they tolerate it. Voiceovers can be confusing at times, but we are in the middle of the Olympic cycle. If they want to come up with something new, they need to do it now to see what kind of feedback they are getting. It would be more risky for the Olympics to bring something like this. - Papadakis and Cizeron dominated in Europe for five years, and no one could even get close to them. Is this a beginning of a new era? SG: I like when there is a stake, when there is fight. But in every sport, it's like sine wave. There are stronger years when someone does better than others. The French have set a certain trend and style, and the others are trying to follow it. Unless they come up with something new, fantastic, the others will slowly reach them. The French introduced this modern, very lightweight, absolutely harmonic skating that is filled with emotions, in which we couldn't even feel where the other one is, yet skating together with great feelings. But the other couples have realized that this is the trend and are trying to catch up. - In the Ice Dance competition at the Pyeongchang Olympics, you were the technical specialist and you experienced an unusual situation where Gabriella Papadakis had problems with her costume in the rhythm dance and breasts were visible. The French couple then finished second behind Canadian Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir. SG: In Graz, after the announcement of the final score, I also remembered that I was in the panel again when the order changed in some way. But in Pyeongchang, something very serious happened, too, because of what happened to her costume, Papadakis messed up a few steps and a twizzle (traveling on the ice) because she was checking her costume. These mistakes then accompanied the French throughout the Olympics, after getting level 4s on all elements, they did not become Olympic champions. But if the purpose of the new scoring system is to change the order after the rhythm dance, if some couples skate in the free dance much better or much weaker, then the judges must show it. Now at the European Championships, the order changed quite much, between the 1st and 20th place there were only two or three pairs remaining in the same place where they were after the short program. Each pair skated somehow and both our technical panel and the judges appreciated what was presented at that moment. - Do you think the new scoring brought more objectivity to the ice dance? SG: Definitely. In the past, there were only minimal changes in the order, with only one or two changes, and if someone had moved three places, it would have required two or three falls. Now, it may just happen that a couple in a rhythm dance is tenth, and in the free dance, sixteenth, and the judge doesn't know where to place them. The judge evaluates what he/she sees, and if someone makes a mistake in one of the element, they are required to score it minus in the grades of execution, the GOE. In other words, the new scoring gave the judges more freedom. The old system was based on putting couples in a certain order. Now, however, this is not the case - after each competitor, the judges must also put down the paper to the ground on which they wrote the scores - although there is a touch screen computer system, they must also write down each scores so that if something happens with the system/computers, so they have to put the papers down face down and take the next skaters' clean one on the top. Previously, they had to be careful not to put two skaters in the same placement, now they don't have this burden anymore and the're now focused on the particular program. And if there are twenty couples and they all present ten or ten elements, then the judges have no chance of calculating what the mathematical result will be. *

Finally. I sincerely hope this will be the beginning of a new era in the history of French figure skating.

With any fair scoring a clean Yuzu with 5 quads would win over a 5-quad performance from Nathan any time. I shouldn't even be a question. The difference in quality should show in GOE and the components. These days we're going back to 6.0 when all that mattered if someone stayed on the feet and jumped the hard stuff. Sigh. In Yuna's case quality should have mattered, too, lower BV or not. Both in GOEs and PCS. But they wanted Adelina to win over her, that is what happened. Quads weren't necessary at that time...3A neither, only Mao jumped it. Overall quality mattered more, until Sochi.

Didier refused to resign? What surprise.

Wow, these are big news. Finally. I was afraid nothing big would happen to Didier and everything would go on as before. I am glad it is not the case. On Twitter: ETA: omg this is my 10 000th post on the Planet.

I know..I think there were two Slovenians in the technical panel too and she still couldn't get the TES I hope for a miracle at Sofia Trophy. Hope dies last.

2020 Four Continents Championships Pre-competition

Italian Ice Dancers Tessari/Fioretti posted on their FB site that they are splitting which is quite unexpected. They have finished 2nd at Italian Nationals behind Guignard/Fabbri and were 16th at Europeans just two weeks ago. Italy has two spots for Worlds in Ice Dance, so if Tessari/Fioretti aren't going to Worlds then only one couple remain who could get the chance, Roy/Pierantonio, a new pair who doesn't have any experience at senior level competitions yet. They're going to Egna Dance Trophy this week (Tessari/Fioretti is still on the entry list too...). In other news, Dragon Trophy was held last week where Rodeghiero won, Lara Naki Gutmann got the silver and Dasa Grm finished bronze in the ladies. Poor Dasa hasn't reached the FS TES minimum (50.77, so close) http://www.drsanje.si/wp-content/rezultati/DragonTrophy2020/ResultsDragonTrophy/SEG024.HTM

Now that all the major news sites wrote about the programs change (plus there was a "source" that confirmed the change which wasn't denied), it looks sure that he's indeed bringing back Chopin and Seimei. Personally I wasn't bothered by Otonal and Origin being tributes as I thought the programs themselves were great. Otonal is a gorgeous program and Origin had so much potential but it's an extremely demanding program which sadly didn't really get the scores that could have this season (except maybe at Skate Canada). Perhaps the 5-quad layout after GPF with the fast-paced music and the choreo weren't working together as much as he would have loved to. I don't know, I'm curious what he will say about this. I am just happy he's bringing back the two programs that have been such important ones in his career, that are both masterpieces and iconic programs. I love Chopin and Seimei and I can't really wait what he'll bring at 4CC, be it the changes in the shorter version of Seimei, choreography and music, layout, and just in general, how will he perform the programs. I loved Seimei at MOI and thought it was one of the best version performance-wise (and I started to miss the program after that *looks at her avatar* and the feeling became greater as the time passed and we neared to February, the second anniversary of his PC gold). Whatever he chooses I have faith in him and I'll support him as always. I will just enjoy every Chopin and Seimei performance we get. And I am grateful each and every time we see him compete, because everything is a bonus after PyeongChang. I hope everything will be fine for him at 4CC and our support and cheers will reach him. Good luck, Yuzu!

As @airi already said he would never do that. He would do a version that is according to the current requirements. I am sure he knows. 4Lz, 4Lo, 4S, 4T and let's see about Nessie.

I think it's good if she tries it at a competition where she has nothing to lose, even if it's still far from a fully rotated quad. If she's healthy why not. She will have plenty of time to work on it later and experience can give her confidence that she went for it and landed all other jumps after that.

I'm going to miss it too if he does change the FS. Gorgeous costume. source: (x) If they doesn't fix it by tomorrow afternoon JPN time (which is morning Europe time) then the possibility of the change will be really high. I think they would fix it asap if the media contacts ISU (their data operator, or whoever is in charge of these things...on Sunday). These news have already been shared in various threads on this forum before (Team USA/US Nationals competition thread and Team Japan thread). You can see the full entry list in the 4CC Practice thread that is now open.

33 or who knows how many times Yano had to cut Seimei this time I noticed that too and I think it was an automatic update, but I think if it wasn't correct they would have already edited it/corrected it? This is why I'm so looking forward to that Confession thing in the TV, I am so curious to hear what his thoughts are.

This is how the ISU profile looked 2 weeks ago when it was last updated (see the date of change at the bottom): There's no way back Welcome to the madness ISU can make a mistake, but it's them who update the profiles when skaters send the music before competitions (like they do it now with 4CC). Wikipedia is not official.

The confession will be on Monday, on 3rd February (then again on 4th and 5th) on Fuji TV. I'm really curious what he will say. If the news are true (and it's not a typo) we might see a shorter Seimei in the new system with one jumping pass less and also with the new GOE system. And definitely an updated Chopin, too. In the past few days I have had so many PyeongChang memories back...it was 2 years ago when we all were waiting for the news. 4CC will also be in February around the same time as PC was and in the same month...but I wouldn't have thought we might see Chopin and Seimei back. His mind

Yuzu's ISU page has been updated today and he's bringing back Chopin and Seimei?!? http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00010967.htm

Three CMs for 4CC

4CC here we go! The fluff thread is now open:

Hector Alonso retired from competitive skating because of injuries. He won Spanish Nationals and finished 34th at Europeans last year. His last competition was the Denis Ten Memorial Challenge this season where he finished 9th. https://www.hieloespanol.es/1/hector_alonso_dice_adios_al_patinaje_3205246.html

Yay for Artur! Great decision, he deserves to go to senior Worlds!