Proposed changes for next season

[Sombreuil]

But that assumes that the judges will keep faith with their duty to all fans, skaters and coaches by applying the rules, all of them, without mercy or favouritism to all competitors equally.  They didn't do it before this revamp and I see nothing to suggest a change of heart or of personnel that would make the application of this set any different from before apart from ambiguous wording that makes their decisions even more opaque than they were before.

[Moria Polonius]

Was this discussed? (Via FSUniverse)

 

Quote

Program Components 

In a program containing a Fall or a Serious error the score ten (10) shall not be awarded for any of the Components. 

In a program containing Falls or Serious errors the score nine-fifty (9.5) or higher should not be awarded for Skating Skills, Transitions and Composition and the score nine (9.0) or higher should not be awarded for Performance and Interpretation

 

Now, if they only defined "serious errors". Were Yuzu's  bad landings at Olys serious errors or not? (FSUniverse makes it sound like "serious errors" it might be more for the Dance benefit.). Also, the use of the word "should".

[Neenah]

4Lz+ 3GOE = 14.95

4F+ 3GOE =  14.30

4L+ 3GOE = 13.65

 

4S+ 5GOE =14.55

4T+ 5GOE= 14.25

3A+ 5GOE= 12.00

 

Basically, being perfect with the easier quads will not give you much (if any) advantage. Add to that the judges unwillingness to give perfect scores to easier elements and the fact that the 4Lzs and 4Fs get free candy just for being landed and we have the candidates for new world records (you know who) 

 

 

 

[hoodie axel]

If flow out isn't accounted for in "good landing", then the USFSA officially can't be more obviously behind this.

 

Flow-out is the opposite of what Chen and Zhou have.

[Nuitsuki]

This is so shit. Did they think that raising marks for underrotated jumps would make tech panels work harder and fairer???

 

a system benefits faulty techniques. I have no words.

[Yatagarasu]

2 hours ago, hoodie axel said:

If flow out isn't accounted for in "good landing", then the USFSA officially can't be more obviously behind this.

 

Flow-out is the opposite of what Chen and Zhou have.

 

It is and yes, Nathan is ... not too good there. But even if it is, it's a huge question mark whether they'll actually care to take it into account or not ... candies are candies.

[Tsubakindy]

4 hours ago, Neenah said:

4Lz+ 3GOE = 14.95

4F+ 3GOE =  14.30

4L+ 3GOE = 13.65

 

4S+ 5GOE =14.55

4T+ 5GOE= 14.25

3A+ 5GOE= 12.00

 

Basically, being perfect with the easier quads will not give you much (if any) advantage. Add to that the judges unwillingness to give perfect scores to easier elements and the fact that the 4Lzs and 4Fs get free candy just for being landed and we have the candidates for new world records (you know who) 

 

 

 

ISU dont really hide their evil plans now, dont they? So now  perfectly executed easy quads cant win over a mediocre lutz? I love some lutzes but the way some skaters land it just make me cringe, i'd take javier and yuzuru's beautiful 4s anytime...

 

These cheap goe candies plus judging bias, i just cant anymore. Until now I cant understand why Boyang's bigger jumps than Nathan never gets the same goe, so...

 

And this rule change supposed to encourage quality? What quality Lol

 

At least before Yuzu rose to top, Daisuke Patrick and Javier were very enjoyable to watch. I guess after Yuzu and Boyang retires I should just stick to ice shows and ladies fs...

 

[Nuitsuki]

I find it so stupid that to level the men field, they inflate the scores of all his rivals BUT Boyang whose jump quality is far beyond Nathan and Shoma. 

Watch they give Vincent higher GOE than Boyang and my brain would explode.

Sorry not sorry I hate when cheated technique is not punished.

 

[WinForPooh]

New proposal - thirty second segment of pogo sticks on ice for every free skate. Jumpityjumpjump.

[Tsubakindy]

56 minutes ago, Nuitsuki said:

Watch they give Vincent higher GOE than Boyang and my brain would explode.

 

Didnt they put him below Vincent already? Worlds 2018 Sp? Couldnt stop tearing my hairs over that one..

 

No matter how many times the rule change doesnt matter, the problem is judging bias isnt it? The reason they add +5 goe was to encourage quality of jumps yet why only 6 bullets...*head scratches* 

 

No goe anymore for varied air positions/delayed rotations, I wept over that, I live for Yuzuru's rippons and Polina's delayed jumps... dont ISU realize how hard those are??

 

Yet in the same system, a quad telegraphed from miles away might get +4 or +5....

[Nuitsuki]

43 minutes ago, Tsubakindy said:

Didnt they put him below Vincent already? Worlds 2018 Sp? Couldnt stop tearing my hairs over that one..

 

No matter how many times the rule change doesnt matter, the problem is judging bias isnt it? The reason they add +5 goe was to encourage quality of jumps yet why only 6 bullets...*head scratches* 

 

No goe anymore for varied air positions/delayed rotations, I wept over that, I live for Yuzuru's rippons and Polina's delayed jumps... dont ISU realize how hard those are??

 

Yet in the same system, a quad telegraphed from miles away might get +4 or +5....

Wait there was WC last season? #denial #whatareutalkingabout

haha....sad reality when a prerotated underrotated jump got higher score than a missing-less-than-1/4-revolution quad 

 

I’ve been afraid of those phantom calls lately. Imo that 4T of Boyang was fine, it missed like 60 degree at most and shouldn’t be called. But i wasnt at the panel so...

 

another victim of phantom calls last season was Mai’s 3F. I just don’t get it why tech panels were overgenerous to some skaters, then went extra harsh for others to the point of making up mistakes they didn’t commit  Is this a new trend? 

 

Btw hello fellow Polina fan i also live for her delayed rotation jumps. They are so gorgeous when she is on 

 

I’m very likely to be in the minority here because I don’t like the new GOE standard. They are even more subjective than the old ones. At least the preceding steps/diff. entry/varied air position/difficult exit can be objective, now 5/6 bullets are purely subjective 

 

But you know what, top skaters wont be affected because they already establish reputation in senior circuit. It is middle tier and upcoming skaters that are disavantaged the most, especially if they are from small feds or not having push from their feds. This will widen the gap between top and middle tier skaters imo. 

[moonkat]

2 hours ago, Nuitsuki said:

Wait there was WC last season? #denial #whatareutalkingabout

haha....sad reality when a prerotated underrotated jump got higher score than a missing-less-than-1/4-revolution quad 

 

It is ridiculous. The new system will not be more fair.

 

 

I’m very likely to be in the minority here because I don’t like the new GOE standard. They are even more subjective than the old ones. At least the preceding steps/diff. entry/varied air position/difficult exit can be objective, now 5/6 bullets are purely subjective 

 

But you know what, top skaters wont be affected because they already establish reputation in senior circuit. It is middle tier and upcoming skaters that are disavantaged the most, especially if they are from small feds or not having push from their feds. This will widen the gap between top and middle tier skaters imo. 

Oh of course the rule changes leave room for more meddling.  It is not a coincidence Asian skaters won at the Olympics under the current system. Skills are measurable and let skaters rise in the ranks, even when they "lack artistry". 

[Tsubakindy]

4 hours ago, Nuitsuki said:

Wait there was WC last season? #denial #whatareutalkingabout

 

 

I’ve been afraid of those phantom calls lately. Imo that 4T of Boyang was fine, it missed like 60 degree at most and shouldn’t be called. But i wasnt at the panel so...

 

 hello fellow Polina fan i also live for her delayed rotation jumps. They are so gorgeous when she is on 

 

I’m very likely to be in the minority here because I don’t like the new GOE standard.

 

Well I'm also traumatized by Worlds this year, I had to watch 9999999999 yuzu videos to cleanse my brain. What happened in Worlds 2018 might be the future of mens fs, if they kept pursuing quads quads quads and abandon skating skills, I guess...you lose the quads, and then you have nothing?

 

Not a fan of +5 goe rules either, imho they just give more room for subjective judgings. I guess the upcoming skaters with no strong fed backups just need to work really hard to "the hanyu level" ( to become so darn good that you still stand on the top even after they underscored you...)

 

Polina and Liza Tuk's jumps are beautiful. I am not a fan of Russian choreo ( hello tanocopters, mimes, flutz, flooxels(??) but those two are great jumpers, I wish both of them good lucks the next season...under the new rules. 

 

Yuzu's 3A did not deserve +5 goe, it needs a new whole range of goe, +hanyu! 

[Nuitsuki]

28 minutes ago, Tsubakindy said:

Well I'm also traumatized by Worlds this year, I had to watch 9999999999 yuzu videos to cleanse my brain. What happened in Worlds 2018 might be the future of mens fs, if they kept pursuing quads quads quads and abandon skating skills, I guess...you lose the quads, and then you have nothing?

I maybe open a can of worms here.

 

So we know thanks to the high BV that Nathan and Shoma got high PCS. Thats not how PCS works but that’s judges’ reason. Then what happen if they fail to execute such BV? Without the quad advantage, theoritically they should be judged like middle-tier skaters. Reality is different.

 

I’m talking about Shoma’s SP. His layout was 4T//3S2T 3A. That was a very weak layout, relatively speaking. His execution was weaker than usual: scrumbles on the combo (and steps iirc). But look at the score: he got higher PCS than his cleaner SP at pyeongchang. 

 

I know Shoma has some nice quality, but that day he wasn’t able to show them, so why his mark didn’t reflect that? And taking out the BV advantage, did he truly deserve a 45+ PCS compared to skaters who have similar BV? Would Mura, Han Yan, etc. get that score if they execute similarly? I don’t think so.

 

Many think that with the change of SOV clean triple programs could defeat quad guys if they make mistakes. But I doubt that’d be the case. As long as judges do not see them as medal contenders, they won’t give them the score that can challenge PCS and GOEs cushion top guys are having.

Look at Deniss V., his PCS made me cry a river. His SS/PE/CO/IN were not only overlooked, they were criminally underscored even by normal standard. 

 

I think men will continue to pursuit quads. Simply because without high BV that can impress judges and make them think that you are mendal contender, you hardly have any chance to podium even when the top ones make multiple mistakes. The fixed mindset of who is medal contender and who is not, imo, is the most dentrimental thing. 

[yuzupon]

Came across this, full conversion of singles' TES for OWG '18. Under spoiler cz I am not sure whether it's allowed to be shared, but I found it quite easily:

 

 

Spoiler

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