Proposed changes for next season

[Xen]

1 minute ago, robin said:

 

I actually was referring to the slide that says “there will be 5 or 6 bullets each and each bullet could correspond to a step in plus” but now that I read it I don’t really get this slide lol

I thought it meant 1 bullet=+1 GOE but then the possible 6 bullets wouldn’t make sense. We currently have 8 bullets, right?

 

(This new proposed way to curve GOE is probably just so that we’re more confused and can’t tell anymore how many bullets an element got credited with.)

The actual simpler solution would be to train judges on how to use a system that allows them to just press bullets for each element, and let the system do the calculations.

But no, let judges do more maths in their head, or go by "impressions" for each positive or negative GOE type. Eeeehhhh.

[Yatagarasu]

1 minute ago, Xen said:

The actual simpler solution would be to train judges on how to use a system that allows them to just press bullets for each element, and let the system do the calculations.

But no, let judges do more maths in their head, or go by "impressions" for each positive or negative GOE type. Eeeehhhh.

 

They might still do that. If there are 5 bullets, for 5 GOE steps then they'll just hit those and the system does the work.

It's slightly more complicated if they go for 6, and bullet 5 and 6 accounts for the final, fifth step, but still. 

At least it's how I get it. 

[robin]

5 minutes ago, Xen said:

The actual simpler solution would be to train judges on how to use a system that allows them to just press bullets for each element, and let the system do the calculations.

But no, let judges do more maths in their head, or go by "impressions" for each positive or negative GOE type. Eeeehhhh.

 

That would be such an improvement 

 

but I can imagine the already messy UI of the software they use would get even more difficult to use. Imagine they not only add buttons for all bullets but also for mistakes that are cause for deductions. 

 

(Or maybe they just need to hire someone who’s more competent in UI design...)

[meoima]

38 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

They might still do that. If there are 5 bullets, for 5 GOE steps then they'll just hit those and the system does the work.

It's slightly more complicated if they go for 6, and bullet 5 and 6 accounts for the final, fifth step, but still. 

At least it's how I get it. 

I can image judges throwing the tables around when they see the new set of rules.

[Yatagarasu]

Just now, meoima said:

I can image judges throwing the tables around when they see the new set of rules.

 

The minus GOEs seem even more puzzling so first they'll head-desk then they'll flip tables 

[MajaHled]

Also I still don't think cutting the 30 secs was a good idea, but that's set already, right? And what happened to BV changes? Is that happening or no? If not, the scores with the 10% thing will go through the roof 

[Yatagarasu]

19 minutes ago, MajaHled said:

Also I still don't think cutting the 30 secs was a good idea, but that's set already, right? And what happened to BV changes? Is that happening or no? If not, the scores with the 10% thing will go through the roof 

 

I haven't seen anything about the BV changes and yes, yes they will. 
I imagine they're thinking that they'll have harsher judging but by the time we hit 2022 it'll get out of control again. It always does. And we'll be back to the issues of balance.

 

And yes, the 30 secs is a stupid idea but alas, set in stone.

[MajaHled]

3 minutes ago, Bilge said:

Do you know anything about this?

 

Apparently, it's a proposed rule change, but it isn't decided if they'll include it. I hope for the love of gods they won't. 

[Bilge]

4 minutes ago, MajaHled said:

Apparently, it's a proposed rule change, but it isn't decided if they'll include it. I hope for the love of gods they won't. 

Ikr?! its ridiculous, obviously favouring some *you know who* lol imagine yuzu doing 7-8 3A since nobady said anything about triples

seriously though i hope thats not the case

 

 

 

and thanks for directing it to the right thread i forgot this one for a moment

[Yatagarasu]

37 minutes ago, Bilge said:

Ikr?! its ridiculous, obviously favouring some *you know who*

 

Aha! I can counter that one! 

 

Actually I've poked the numbers and repeating quads favors Nathan, not this rule. Think of it this way. He can repeat 2 right? So he'll repeat the 4Lz and the 4F twice, and he'll gain way more with that, than being forced to include all the five types of quads, one of which is actually not even remotely stable and pretty much showed up to go hey I can and help the PR. With no repeats? He has to include the two 3As too. 

 

Also keep in mind that the new rules are meant to have the perfect triple have the value of a quad. With 30 seconds less, his set up times being huge, he really isn't favoured with no repeats. It's why I think this won't pass. USFSA won't vote for it because of that benefit, and the rest of the World, barring a few exceptions is still on the two primary quads. I am going to be super surprised if this goes through.

[Sombreuil]

His set up times hark back 30 years - I agree US fed won't vote for it

[Xen]

1 hour ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

Aha! I can counter that one! 

 

Actually I've poked the numbers and repeating quads favors Nathan, not this rule. Think of it this way. He can repeat 2 right? So he'll repeat the 4Lz and the 4F twice, and he'll gain way more with that, than being forced to include all the five types of quads, one of which is actually not even remotely stable and pretty much showed up to go hey I can and help the PR. With no repeats? He has to include the two 3As too. 

 

Also keep in mind that the new rules are meant to have the perfect triple have the value of a quad. With 30 seconds less, his set up times being huge, he really isn't favoured with no repeats. It's why I think this won't pass. USFSA won't vote for it because of that benefit, and the rest of the World, barring a few exceptions is still on the two primary quads. I am going to be super surprised if this goes through.

Depending on how GOE is awarded, this drives towards an emphasis on GOE, since almost all the top guys have fairly similar quads variety. 

In terms of GOE, it actually favors Yuzu, Shoma, Javi, and a lesser degree Boyang- guys who already put up decent to great GOE next to their BVs. 

Shoma: 4F, 4T, 4S, 4Lo, 3As (can be repeated)

Boyang: 4Lz, 4T, 4S, 4Lo (haven't seen it much though), 3As (can repeat it even in combo)

Yuzu: 4T, 4S, 4Lo, 4Lz, 3As (can repeat in combo)

Nate on the other hand- I don't think he's an edge jumper, and he hasn't brought out the 4Lo yet. Also, for the last 2 competitions (OG and WC), was 4S the one quad that always messed him up? 

I'm actually curious how Jason Brown would do under the new GOE system. He's probably the best among the "no quads" skaters in terms of GOE and PCS points. Though who knows- he should be capable of a 4T. 

 

[SparkleSalad]

48 minutes ago, Xen said:

Nate on the other hand- I don't think he's an edge jumper, and he hasn't brought out the 4Lo yet. Also, for the last 2 competitions (OG and WC), was 4S the one quad that always messed him up? 

 

Nathan landed 4Lo in his first competition of last season but packed it back up because it wasn't behaving, I think.

[WinForPooh]

I usually consider myself fairly smart-ish but this is doing my head in and I don't understand. I don't understand what the aim of these changes really is. To make scoring stricter? That's just... It's like if you can't do the 3A properly, try the 4A?! Can't get the edge on a 3Lz, do the 4Lz? Can't handle following rules accurately for a 7-grade GOE system? Here, play with a 11-grade one! So how on earth will a well-executed triple be the same as a bad quad, in that case? Triples get stricter GOE anyway, quads get candies, that's one of the problems.

 

No repeating quads? That's fine by me tbh. Maybe we'll see fully rotated combos now, because if there's no repeating quads, combos will probably be triples. Do the clear and recognisable steps and then do a solo quad and rotate it properly. But this one probably won't be passed. 

 

What's the point of any of this? 

[Moria Polonius]

I actually think the no-quad-repetition rule might benefit Yuzu. It will probably force him to go back to 4Lz and this one might prove to be unstable, but it will mean 4 quads in the FS, which might increase his consistency. And a clean/ish Yuzu is a king of GOEs, and with new values on those, they could be his greatest advantage. No more than 4 quads may also still leave room for the 4A in terms of stamina and concentration.

 

Other multi quadsters may also become cleaner, but, despite the GOE overscoring and underscoring, they still won't be able to gain as much as Yuzu. The gap in quality is just that big. And the no-repetition rule handicaps Yuzu's rivals just as much as Yuzu: Yata's analysis on Nathan's BV. Shoma may be forced to do 4S, Nathan and Boyang 4Lo - and those may prove as unstable or more than Yuzu's 4Lz (or 4A!)