General Skating Chat

[sweetwater]

5 hours ago, Melodie said:

Let’s say the SoE is extended past the GPS. Wouldn’t the same troubles be applied to JPN skaters as well? And given the schedule of the GPS, it will be an absolute disaster for skaters based in Japan.

 

 

If the situation doesn't improve until then, that would affect not only the Japanese skaters but also the skaters from other countries, because Japan is hosting JGPF/GPF and NHK Trophy, and the government may not have much reason to support JSF in holding international competitions since they won't have a plan on holding another Olympics during pandemic soon. For example, F1 Grand Prix Japan, which had been scheduled for early October, has been canceled because they couldn't assure that the participants from overseas would be able to enter Japan after negotiating with local/national authorities.

 

Figure skating is an Olympic sport, and ISU isn't comparable to FIA, so things may go differently with NHK and GPF, but I guess skaters have to go through another bumpy first half of the season.

[surimi]

14 hours ago, sweetwater said:

While Koshiro is in Switzerland, Shoma is currently in Japan and is participating in a show at the end of this month, so it is not realistic for him to travel and compete right after that.

 

I am not sure why JSF isn't sending their skaters to any Challenger at the moment, but it may be because Japan is currently under a state of emergency, and it seems unlikely to be lifted soon. 

Late last year, our government established a system that enables athletes to train while quarantining after coming back from abroad under certain conditions. However, after the emergence of variants, they decided to suspend the system during a state of emergency. The only exception was the athletes came back to Japan for the Tokyo Olympics. So, in the current situation, unless you are already training abroad, you may be better off staying in Japan and prepare for domestic competition and/or GPS.

 

As a fan of lesser known JPN skaters, this approach is terrifying for me. Once they're gone from the ISU world standings due to no challengers and no spring competitions, then bye bye international competitions*, and I may never see my favorite skaters again, especially if they're prone to doing well abroad but poorly in Japan. 

*- someone here said that although Mana placed as high as 6th at Nats, she's not in WS due to no international competitions, and for that reason the JSF won't assign her abroad as they only assign skaters in WS list. Well, and my fave Sota only needs to do poorly at Skate Canada (which isn't too unlikely as it's a hard field) to drop out of WS for good. Maybe the Japanese don't view things so tragically because hey, we can still see our skaters in shows and at local events, and for the guys overseas there are always the biggest stars on GP and WC. But for people like me, watching careers slowly going out and getting limited to forever being stuck with domestic competitions, all due to this no travel rule, is simply crushing.

[sweetwater]

On 8/19/2021 at 4:19 PM, surimi said:

 

As a fan of lesser known JPN skaters, this approach is terrifying for me. Once they're gone from the ISU world standings due to no challengers and no spring competitions, then bye bye international competitions*, and I may never see my favorite skaters again, especially if they're prone to doing well abroad but poorly in Japan. 

*- someone here said that although Mana placed as high as 6th at Nats, she's not in WS due to no international competitions, and for that reason the JSF won't assign her abroad as they only assign skaters in WS list. Well, and my fave Sota only needs to do poorly at Skate Canada (which isn't too unlikely as it's a hard field) to drop out of WS for good. Maybe the Japanese don't view things so tragically because hey, we can still see our skaters in shows and at local events, and for the guys overseas there are always the biggest stars on GP and WC. But for people like me, watching careers slowly going out and getting limited to forever being stuck with domestic competitions, all due to this no travel rule, is simply crushing.

 

*To mods and admins: This post is going to be 100 percent about Japanese skaters, so if you think it is more relevant to TJ thread, could you please move it? Sorry in advance for the trouble.

 

@surimi,

 

First of all, I am sorry if I sounded indifferent to some Japanese skaters and their international fans like you. I was only trying to be as neutral as possible because there was nothing I knew for sure. What I posted was general information regarding the situation surrounding Japanese athletes and my speculation based on it, not what JFS was actually doing. 

 

Japanese are certainly blessed with the opportunities to see their favs in person, especially when their favs are Japanese. However, I don't think we would react to your situation in the way you imagined. Favs are generally irreplaceable, aren't they? We have our own share of people who would travel anywhere for local competitions, other countries' nationals, and senior Bs if it's affordable and not during a pandemic, only to see and cheer for their favs in person. They would not satisfy with seeing their local stars at nearby shows/competitions instead of seeing their favs.

 

Many of our skaters finish their competitive careers as they graduate from universities and don't continue skating in shows, so it is difficult to see them stuck in a situation like this for two seasons...  and especially about Sota, I am feeling mostly the same as you.

 

That said, I had different thoughts on the theory about JSF's strategy about Challengers and did some fact check.

 

Firstly, Mana Kawabe was in 56th place in the current standings, and she was 7th of all the 14 Japanese girls there. Currently, she isn't assigned to any Grand Prix event, but I think she is one of the leading candidates for Japan's third woman at the NHK Trophy.

http://results.isu.org/ws/ws/wswomen.htm

 

Secondly, your comment reminded me of some skaters that might have gotten off the WS at some point in their career, and some that might have gotten an opportunity to compete at international competition despite having a weak track record, so I checked their WS placements in the past ten seasons and saw if they had really gotten off the WS or gotten a chance despite being off the WS, and it seemed that Japanese skaters who are known internationally, even if not widely known, and doing relatively well at JNats, tend to stay on the WS and rarely drop out of it under normal circumstances.

 

For example, Sota Yamamoto has never dropped out of WS since the 2014-2015 season despite going through a major injury and taking time to come back. After his comeback, he has been a bit struggling at JNats, but getting Challengers and spring competitions and doing well there.

 

Hiroaki Sato, who made his international debut as a junior skater in 2014, had been on WS in 2014-2021, although he retired in the 2019-2020 season. He didn't always get a Challenger or a GP but got a spring competition by doing well at JNats and competed at NHK twice by doing well at selection meetings.

Shu Nakamura, who had even fewer chances to compete at senior international competitions, appeared on the WS in the 2013-2014 season and remained there until 2018-2019. (He retired in the 2019-2020 season.) He never competed at a Challenger or a senior GP but got a chance to compete at a spring competition and Winter Universiade by doing well at JNats.

I checked several other guys' WS history. The other skater who disappeared from WS during his career made his international debut when he was a junior, but got injured for two consecutive seasons before having a strong track record like Sota's, and could not come back strong enough to qualify for FS at JNats.

 

As for the women, I found Yuna Shiraiwa, Yuna Aoki, and Mai Mihara had dropped out of WS at the beginning of this season. They all had a tough 2019-2020 season due to injuries and sickness. Mai and Yuna A even had to skip the entire season, but what impacted them most, I think, was this pandemic. Yuna A might have needed more time to make a full comeback, but Mai and Yuna S finished 5th and 9th respectively at JNats. Seeing how men I checked did in the past, Mai and Yuna S would have gotten a chance to compete at an international competition if the last season was a normal season.

 

When the situation doesn't improve and international travel remains difficult, those who had to stay in Japan last season may drop out of WS as well. In such a case, JSF would just have to try and send them to any Challenger they can go and let them earn WS points and minimum scores, but I hope that will not be the case.

 

I haven't done thorough research, (tbh, I don't know how) so I can not say this for sure, but I am afraid that the Challenger series theory may be partly true but not exactly what you think, and the chance of your fave getting a Challenger or a spring competition isn't so low if the pandemic doesn't get in our way.

[surimi]

18 hours ago, sweetwater said:

 

*To mods and admins: This post is going to be 100 percent about Japanese skaters, so if you think it is more relevant to TJ thread, could you please move it? Sorry in advance for the trouble.

 

@surimi,

 

First of all, I am sorry if I sounded indifferent to some Japanese skaters and their international fans like you. I was only trying to be as neutral as possible because there was nothing I knew for sure. What I posted was general information regarding the situation surrounding Japanese athletes and my speculation based on it, not what JFS was actually doing. 

 

Japanese are certainly blessed with the opportunities to see their favs in person, especially when their favs are Japanese. However, I don't think we would react to your situation in the way you imagined. Favs are generally irreplaceable, aren't they? We have our own share of people who would travel anywhere for local competitions, other countries' nationals, and senior Bs if it's affordable and not during a pandemic, only to see and cheer for their favs in person. They would not satisfy with seeing their local stars at nearby shows/competitions instead of seeing their favs.

 

Many of our skaters finish their competitive careers as they graduate from universities and don't continue skating in shows, so it is difficult to see them stuck in a situation like this for two seasons...  and especially about Sota, I am feeling mostly the same as you.

 

That said, I had different thoughts on the theory about JSF's strategy about Challengers and did some fact check.

 

Firstly, Mana Kawabe was in 56th place in the current standings, and she was 7th of all the 14 Japanese girls there. Currently, she isn't assigned to any Grand Prix event, but I think she is one of the leading candidates for Japan's third woman at the NHK Trophy.

http://results.isu.org/ws/ws/wswomen.htm

 

Secondly, your comment reminded me of some skaters that might have gotten off the WS at some point in their career, and some that might have gotten an opportunity to compete at international competition despite having a weak track record, so I checked their WS placements in the past ten seasons and saw if they had really gotten off the WS or gotten a chance despite being off the WS, and it seemed that Japanese skaters who are known internationally, even if not widely known, and doing relatively well at JNats, tend to stay on the WS and rarely drop out of it under normal circumstances.

 

For example, Sota Yamamoto has never dropped out of WS since the 2014-2015 season despite going through a major injury and taking time to come back. After his comeback, he has been a bit struggling at JNats, but getting Challengers and spring competitions and doing well there.

 

Hiroaki Sato, who made his international debut as a junior skater in 2014, had been on WS in 2014-2021, although he retired in the 2019-2020 season. He didn't always get a Challenger or a GP but got a spring competition by doing well at JNats and competed at NHK twice by doing well at selection meetings.

Shu Nakamura, who had even fewer chances to compete at senior international competitions, appeared on the WS in the 2013-2014 season and remained there until 2018-2019. (He retired in the 2019-2020 season.) He never competed at a Challenger or a senior GP but got a chance to compete at a spring competition and Winter Universiade by doing well at JNats.

I checked several other guys' WS history. The other skater who disappeared from WS during his career made his international debut when he was a junior, but got injured for two consecutive seasons before having a strong track record like Sota's, and could not come back strong enough to qualify for FS at JNats.

 

As for the women, I found Yuna Shiraiwa, Yuna Aoki, and Mai Mihara had dropped out of WS at the beginning of this season. They all had a tough 2019-2020 season due to injuries and sickness. Mai and Yuna A even had to skip the entire season, but what impacted them most, I think, was this pandemic. Yuna A might have needed more time to make a full comeback, but Mai and Yuna S finished 5th and 9th respectively at JNats. Seeing how men I checked did in the past, Mai and Yuna S would have gotten a chance to compete at an international competition if the last season was a normal season.

 

When the situation doesn't improve and international travel remains difficult, those who had to stay in Japan last season may drop out of WS as well. In such a case, JSF would just have to try and send them to any Challenger they can go and let them earn WS points and minimum scores, but I hope that will not be the case.

 

I haven't done thorough research, (tbh, I don't know how) so I can not say this for sure, but I am afraid that the Challenger series theory may be partly true but not exactly what you think, and the chance of your fave getting a Challenger or a spring competition isn't so low if the pandemic doesn't get in our way.

 

 

Oh, my post wasn't aimed at you, I apologize if it came across like that! In retrospect, I probably should have worded it differently. 

I am sure Japanese fans of lesser known foreign skaters suffer from the same anxiety as mine.

I hope you're right in assuming something could be done about getting unlucky skaters back in WS. But there are so many in Nationals top 10 in need of points... plus Mako and the junior boys and girls outside top 10 (who might yet get sent to JGP). I am anxious again to imagine who will be given preference and who will draw the short straw. I feel very regretful that I missed the opportunity to see 2020 Coupe du Printemps, as I am not sure about the prospects of Tomoe and Mitsuki. To what extent they can hope for competitions abroad. Especially since we don't know when and where the pandemic may flare up again, resulting in cancelled JPN participation x_x I see Korean skaters, Australian skaters, Canadian skaters getting assigned to Challengers and/or JGP, just not Japanese ones. (And Chinese ones, but those don't count as their singles fields are not so deep, and they have a Challenger right in their own country). I know JPN OG spots are safe, but their fields are so deep, and the skaters deserve to see the light at the end of the tunnel... So despite the pandemic, I hope at least those who weren't at Worlds 2021, can still get assigned somewhere. 

 

Were you referring to Daichi Miyata in the fourth-to-last paragraph? His is a sad story.

[Anni]

 

[sallycinnamon]

 

[surimi]

Thank goodness that at least Satoko got assigned. I hope other skaters will follow. No Koshiro at Lombardia still makes zero sense to me. I see Chinese, Koreans, New Zealanders entered in ACI, and all of them are very cautious countries... Come on, JSF, your singles fields are way deeper! I'll keep my fingers crossed for the poor A-list and B-list skaters. 

 

Happy to hear Italy is likely to get the GP. They did well in the past. Does CoC cancellation mean Yudong will need to go to JGP to get a GP spot, or is he guaranteed one senior GP slot?

[sallycinnamon]

20 hours ago, Anni said:

 

 

The three Latvian skaters WD so there are only 5 men remained on the entry list: https://results.isu.org/events/cscan2021_Men.htm

[Melodie]

3 hours ago, sallycinnamon said:

 

The three Latvian skaters WD so there are only 5 men remained on the entry list: https://results.isu.org/events/cscan2021_Men.htm

 

 

I suspect that more withdrawals will come soon. 

[Anni]

The NHK Trophy 2021 website has been updated
 

 

 

 

 

There are already many messages of support for Yuzu on twitter. I hope it brings him luck.
Here the hashtag
羽生 結弦選手を応援します！
We support Yuzuru Hanyu!

If someone also wants to post a message of support on twitter you can find the link under the player profile.

 

[Anni]

U.S International Classic 2021 Entries (Sept. 15-18, 2021)

Trusova will also compete 

 

[surimi]

South America, Korea, Australia and New Zealand merrily competing for points or SB or both despite the pandemic, while dozens of Japanese skaters sit at home preparing for regionals with no feedback from international judges. Thumbs up to the aforementioned countries, but I now really hate JSF.

[Melodie]

2 hours ago, Anni said:

U.S International Classic 2021 Entries (Sept. 15-18, 2021)

Trusova will also compete 

 

So Russian skaters cleared up visa issues already?

[Anni]

2 hours ago, Melodie said:

So Russian skaters cleared up visa issues already?

 

I ask myself the same 

 

[sweetwater]