General Skating Chat

[Xen]

2 minutes ago, shanshani said:

Interesting. Well if it takes USFed politicking to get some decent tech equipment and fair tech calls, I'm all for it. But in ladies, Alysa Liu is known for having a PR problem, isn't she? I guess she's very young so she could fix it.

Has she been targetted in US Media though? I thought US Media is going "brilliant, exquisite, huge, one of a kind" with her jumps. o_O

If we look at US Media, the big one is Shoma, and then Satoko. After that, whomever survives of the Russian girls (I think Kosto won't get dinged much, but watch them go after Schebakova and Trusova).

[KatjaThera]

Sorry, I'll be going OT for a bit, but I had an idea and wanted to put it out there in case anyone has the time or mood to do something about it (since I sadly don't have either of those, nor the means ^_^; )

 

Given the recent revival of talks about jumps only vs. full package and since I was recently re-watching Yuzu performing old programs sans jumps in CiONTU, it made me wonder what other skaters' programs look like without jumps. Just the program as it is, music as it is, just blur or blacken the image from take off to landing of every jump, removing the spectacular impact of the jump. And maybe also the opposite. The same program with just the jumps, including entry and exit (to better emphasize difficult steps into/out of, if possible), but with music, to see how/if it matches the music. Perhaps also including the scores that were awarded (PCS and spin/step sequence, choreo GOE for the first and GOE for the second). I think it could be really interesting, and perhaps eye opening in some cases. It would however take quite a bit of work and surely cause a lot of arguments, too...

[hoodie axel]

18 hours ago, Xen said:

The issue of tech panel is pretty simple. If we were to judge 100 meter dash, a referee needs to ensure all athletes are really running 100 meters and start at the same point. Not someone gets to jump start 0.5 seconds early, someone can get away with running 90 meters and another needs to go 110 meters to count.  If that were allowed, we'd consider the sport a complete farce.

Funny how this apparently is too hard to get for some.

[hoodie axel]

Might be a UO: I'm fine with the 4 min mark for men. I just want another jump gone, and level requirements to be more sensible.

If the level requirements won't ever make sense, then keep the jumps, dump a spin.

[Xen]

4 hours ago, hoodie axel said:

Might be a UO: I'm fine with the 4 min mark for men. I just want another jump gone, and level requirements to be more sensible.

If the level requirements won't ever make sense, then keep the jumps, dump a spin.

I want the same number of jumps and possibly about 20 seconds back in the long. XD

[hoodie axel]

Just now, Xen said:

I want the same number of jumps and possibly about 20 seconds back in the long. XD

That could work. But at the end, nothing matters as long as the judging stays the same.

 

I think 6 jumps plus lower level requirements would be great as long as the judges actually judge quality. So six big jumps, great positions and edge quality, and great performance and musicality in four minutes is physically exhausting, like a sport should be.

[axelnojutsu]

I don’t want them to lower level requirements I want them to actually differentiate and give more points to higher level spins and steps.

 

And yeah, same number of jumps with more time sounds good to me.

 

I’d also like a deflation of PCS but lmao

[Xen]

2 minutes ago, axelnojutsu said:

I don’t want them to lower level requirements I want them to actually differentiate and give more points to higher level spins and steps.

 

And yeah, same number of jumps with more time sounds good to me.

 

I’d also like a deflation of PCS but lmao

I don't think a deflation is necessary, I think it's necessary for judges and the judging system, and even fans, to accept that gaps do exist.

Very few skaters, especially when trying to climb up rankings, will try to really balance the PCS and TES. TES, especially BV is much easier--> do a jump or spin etc successfully, you get the point. And it's much more straight forward.

 

However, that is a choice and judges should recognize and accept that choices were made. Scores might not be as high, but they would no way be truly "low" just because PCs aren't keeping up with the BVs. They were not really supposed to, and it's not like all skaters are PCS-artistry type of skaters. It does create the problem that if a skater gets 88 PCs out the gate, but increase and do in fact do better years later, they can't get higher PCS. People wonder why TES and BV is ballooning- well geesh, look at what other options are given, especially if new senior skaters from big feds are getting 88% of their maximum PCS already in year 1.

[hoodie axel]

26 minutes ago, axelnojutsu said:

I don’t want them to lower level requirements I want them to actually differentiate and give more points to higher level spins and steps.

Why? Currently, what happens is that even with bad quality positions and edges, skaters get high levels. If the requirements are lowered, the skaters can focus on what they are capable of doing with higher quality. Reward difficulty and quality through GOE.

 

Otherwise, what can happen is take the same level requirements, but make sure the GOE rewards are the same across all the levels. So people who are simply not yet at the level of doing level four spins and steps are deducted in BV, but the GOE they get for practising to deliver what they have with quality is worth the effort. Otherwise, skaters just labour through low quality level four elements, without respect to quality.

 

This would ideally also come with PCS rewards, because your making it all look stronger and effortless. It takes hardwork.

19 minutes ago, Xen said:

I don't think a deflation is necessary, I think it's necessary for judges and the judging system, and even fans, to accept that gaps do exist. 

I don't think PCS needs to be touched anymore, but we'll see.

[axelnojutsu]

Yes, that’s why I said I want them to actually differentiate 

But I don’t think the answer to incorrect judging is to make the rules so the judging is right like when they erased the steps before jump thing

 

And I want them to deflate the PCS precisely to allow those gaps instead of having everything at the top in a range of 0.5 points 

[hoodie axel]

5 hours ago, axelnojutsu said:

Yes, that’s why I said I want them to actually differentiate 

But I don’t think the answer to incorrect judging is to make the rules so the judging is right

But then, according to the current rules + state of judging, bad quality "level 4 spins" will be called as such AND receive proportionally higher GOE

[yuzuangel]

It would really be nice if they could provide actual feedback to skaters about levels and URs and stuff. Like I heard Satoko still has no idea why she keeps getting StSq3 this season??

 

Look a GPS can calculate detailed street-by-street driving directions from NYC to California in less than 10 seconds. Google can crawl the entire web in milliseconds and Amazon can tell you what you need before you realize. It's totally possible to measure stuff like rotations and steps but nope, it's still a struggle to allow USBs for music at competitions 

 

And somehow I feel like there's got to be a few figure skating fans who would do it all for free or a low cost 

[hoodie axel]

1 hour ago, yuzuangel said:

And somehow I feel like there's got to be a few figure skating fans who would do it all for free or a low cost 

Those few would rather work for Google though

[kaeryth]

Dunno where to put this but wow!

 

[kaeryth]

43 minutes ago, kaeryth said:

Dunno where to put this but wow!

 

 

Sneak peek with Dai