General Skating Chat

[meoima]

It's more likely we will see 4lz in both SP and LP.

[Yoa]

He can go Medvedeva style and do //4Lo 4T-3T 3A  - 52.21 BV 

[CupidsBow]

So I got bored and tried to think of plausible possible layouts using old Chopin layouts and just seeing what could be done with the jumps without changing where jump passes were placed in the program massively. This is mostly for fun, particularly the wilder ones haha I just did whatever I could think of.

 

OP layouts used for ref:

3a // 4t, 3lz+3t = 42.23 bv

4s, 4t+3t // 3a = 48.05 bv

 

Fairly Plausible options:-

4lo, 4t+3t // 3a = 49.55

4lo // 4t+3t , 3A = 51.01

 

Possible options:-

4lz, 4t+3t // 3a = 51.15

4lz, 3a // 4t3t = 51.76

4lz // 4t+3t , 3A = 52.61

 

 

Somewhat dangerous option:-

4lz, 4lo+3t // 3a = 52.85

 

fairly dangerous option:-

4lz // 4lo+3t, 3A = 54.48

 

not worth it option:-

4A, 4Lo // 3lz+3t =52.13

 

dear god no:-

4a, 4lo // 4t+3t = 56.66

 

(I went for a 4lo+3t combo cuz a 2t would barely be worth it but if he popped the 3t in combo it wouldn't be horrific)

 

 

[Anony]

2 hours ago, jinabee said:

So I got bored and tried to think of plausible possible layouts using old Chopin layouts and just seeing what could be done with the jumps without changing where jump passes were placed in the program massively. This is mostly for fun, particularly the wilder ones haha I just did whatever I could think of.

 

OP layouts used for ref:

3a // 4t, 3lz+3t = 42.23 bv

4s, 4t+3t // 3a = 48.05 bv

 

Fairly Plausible options:-

4lo, 4t+3t // 3a = 49.55

4lo // 4t+3t , 3A = 51.01

 

Possible options:-

4lz, 4t+3t // 3a = 51.15

4lz, 3a // 4t3t = 51.76

4lz // 4t+3t , 3A = 52.61

 

 

Somewhat dangerous option:-

4lz, 4lo+3t // 3a = 52.85

 

fairly dangerous option:-

4lz // 4lo+3t, 3A = 54.48

 

not worth it option:-

4A, 4Lo // 3lz+3t =52.13

 

dear god no:-

4a, 4lo // 4t+3t = 56.66

 

(I went for a 4lo+3t combo cuz a 2t would barely be worth it but if he popped the 3t in combo it wouldn't be horrific)

 

 

4Lz 3A// 4T-3T seems unlikely to me if only because his 3A has reached the point of stability where there is no way he wouldn't put it in the second half to milk the bonus. That aside, I personally think if he's going to be adding the 4Lz, 4Lo-3T has to come out somewhere. He wanted to stabilise that 4Lo for a reason and it did get ridiculously consistent second half of the season(hush hush about WTT SP).

So, if anything goes, can I slide in the possibility of a 4S-4T or 4T-4T combo onto this hahahaha... Like those ridiculous attempts at GPF Gala show that he has the speed coming out of his 4S and 4T for something more than a triple... I'm so sorry 

[xeyra]

2 hours ago, jinabee said:

not worth it option:-

4A, 4Lo // 3lz+3t =52.13

 

dear god no:-

4a, 4lo // 4t+3t = 56.66

 

(I went for a 4lo+3t combo cuz a 2t would barely be worth it but if he popped the 3t in combo it wouldn't be horrific)

 

 

 

Just a heads up: he can't actually use 4A as the axel jump in the SP. The SP rules require a double or triple axel. The only way one would be able to use 4A in a SP, with current rules, is if it is the solo jump or part of the combo. So 4A 4Lo3T 3A or 4A 4Lz3T 3A would all be valid (but not feasible) options but not 4A 4Lo 4T3T.

[CupidsBow]

12 minutes ago, Anony said:

4Lz 3A// 4T-3T seems unlikely to me if only because his 3A has reached the point of stability where there is no way he wouldn't put it in the second half to milk the bonus. That aside, I personally think if he's going to be adding the 4Lz, 4Lo-3T has to come out somewhere. He wanted to stabilise that 4Lo for a reason and it did get ridiculously consistent second half of the season(hush hush about WTT SP).

So, if anything goes, can I slide in the possibility of a 4S-4T combo onto this hahahaha... I'm so sorry 

 

 

 

>> 4-4 combos aren't allowed in the sp but...if we are looking at 4s combos...

 

Various CoD layout possibilities:-

4lo, 4s+3t // 3a = 49.75

4lo // 4s+3t , 3A = 51.23

4lz, 4s+3t // 3a = 51.35

4lz // 4s+3t , 3A = 52.83

 

@xeyra the 4A layouts were a joke anyway lmao

But...huh. I didn't know that. Guess it depends on how much he loves axels

[Anony]

2 minutes ago, jinabee said:

 

>> 4-4 combos aren't allowed in the sp but...if we are looking at 4s combos...

 

Various CoD layout possibilities:-

4lo, 4s+3t // 3a = 49.75

4lo // 4s+3t , 3A = 51.23

4lz, 4s+3t // 3a = 51.35

4lz // 4s+3t , 3A = 52.83

 

Wait, is it really? Gosh, I need to reread my rules then 

But no I don't think he'll come back to 4S-3T. If he's keeping the same jumps I think he'll at least mix it up and go for a solo 4S then 4Lo-3T

[xeyra]

4 minutes ago, jinabee said:

 

 

@xeyra the 4A layouts were a joke anyway lmao

But...huh. I didn't know that. Guess it depends on how much he loves axels

 

Yeah, I don't think we'll see a 4A anytime soon! But I just wanted to point out that the rules don't really allow for the 2A/3A to be replaced by a 4A in the SP, because I'm not sure people know that when doing all these crazy scenarios. 

[Anony]

3 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

Yeah, I don't think we'll see a 4A anytime soon! But I just wanted to point out that the rules don't really allow for the 2A/3A to be replaced by a 4A in the SP, because I'm not sure people know that when doing all these crazy scenarios. 

In a plot twist where Yuzuru wasn't lying about not wanting to add the 4Lz yet because he wants to add the 4A

[kaeryth]

Not sure about which jumps but I think that he'll definitely backload and have 2 jumps in the second half, one of them being a quad combo.

4CC and WTT has taught him that he's got the stamina for it now.

[xeyra]

I did wonder why people didn't backload two jumps in the SP because it's only 2.30 mins, which is basically the first half of a FS, but I think because of the very strict rules of the SP, which will cost a lot if anything doesn't meet its requirements, skaters aren't very keen on taking too many risks there, including saving too much stuff for the second half.

 

I mean, you notice how Yuzu was basically the only skater actually using his combo as the second jumping pass and not the first (edit: Shoma is the only other, I think)? People want to get the combo done first, which helps if you mess it up since then you have a second jump you can attach it to. Having the combo as the second jumping pass is a risk that kind of bit him in the ass last season but it's a strategy he's been following for a long time, back when he did 3Lz3T in the second half, and the only comparison in risk I can maybe find in the top men is Boyang doing his 4T in the second half. 

[Katt]

I think the best option is 4lo//3A 4T3T. Its higher BV than this season layout and even if everyone go clean (unlikely tho), he will place first.  I dont think he need 4lz in SP. 

[kaeryth]

There's less room for errors on the SP because you only have 7 required elements. And as we saw from Yuzu, backloading can be rewarding in terms of points but also dangerous if not done perfectly - especially not having the combo as your first jumping pass.

[ralucutzagy]

26 minutes ago, xeyra said:

I did wonder why people didn't backload two jumps in the SP because it's only 2.30 mins, which is basically the first half of a FS, but I think because of the very strict rules of the SP, which will cost a lot if anything doesn't meet its requirements, skaters aren't very keen on taking too many risks there, including saving too much stuff for the second half.

 

I mean, you notice how Yuzu was basically the only skater actually using his combo as the second jumping pass and not the first? People want to get the combo done first, which helps if you mess it up since then you have a second jump you can attach it to. Having the combo as the second jumping pass is a risk that kind of bit him in the ass last season but it's a strategy he's been following for a long time, back when he did 3Lz3T in the second half, and the only comparison in risk I can maybe find in the top men is Boyang doing his 4T in the second half. 

Second half combo is a risk indeed but the bonus 10% points kinda worth it. And Yuzu is stuborn like a mule when he decides to do something. 

[xeyra]

Apparently Shoma may end up backloading his combo and 3A as well, according to some tweets of his SP performance at FaOI today (he used the triple versions of the jumps there).

 

So updating the numbers I'd had before, we get this:

4Lo 4F3T // 3A - 51.55 BV 

4Lo // 4F3T 3A - 53.21 BV

 

Shoma has taken some of Yuzu's strategies to heart before (all combos in second half of FS, two 3A combos) and it's being very effective for him. 

To note though: Shoma is risking a lot with this SP since he's not actually had a 4F3T combo done in competition yet. I'm not quite sure if he's done a 4F combo either.