General Skating Chat

[yuzuangel]

Wow, can't imagining balancing undergrad with being an OGM-hopeful. If Nathan tries to do 1/2 school, 1/2 skating, I'm sure he'll be good but I can't see him as being World Champion/OGM contender until he takes time off of school to only focus on skating. But who knows, maybe he's truly special.

[Sombreuil]

Well I doubt it too, but I suppose a lot depends on how heavy the course load is.  Epke Zonderland managed to be World and Olympic HB champion and be a medical student in the Netherlands - not sure he could have done that and the AA as I've said before, but I'm basing my opinion on uk medical schools which tend to have very heavy workloads from the start and it just gets more onerous as you go along.  I suspect Yuzurus course is something besides skating  that keeps him busy and out of what most people would consider a 'normal ' social life.

[cinemacoconut]

Yuzu said he wnted to do 2~4 seasons at max. And he said in press conference that he wnts to land 4A. Being a perfectionist he wnts to land it with positive GOE which will take him 2 seasons at the least. I think we are looking at 2 seasons ahead logistically speaking. 

[cinemacoconut]

You can't jst land 4A with positive GOE in one season. It took yuzu 3 seasons jst to stabilize quad salchow remember? And he started to use quad loop in 16 season but even now the quad loop success rate isnt that high.

 

Yuzu always needs 2 seasons to land new quad jumps consistently. 

[kaeryth]

@cinemacoconut... you know what's funny? Yuzu usually lands his new jumps in his first competition trying it with +GOEs.... then it goes a bit awry before becoming stable. He actually got the 4Lo stable much faster than anticipated (probably because he does it both in the SP and FS unlike when he started the 4S). The success rate of the 4Lo only went down during the '17-18 season because he only jumped it at COR'18 and that was after having the knee pain at ACI and because he was concentrating too much on 4Lz. I'm not saying he'll be able to jump 4A and get +GOE immediately but let's just say he does have a pattern and we should never underestimate Mr Hanyu

 

4T NHK'10  1.29 COR'10 (popped to 3T) JNats'10 (popped to 3T) 4CC'11  2.00   Nebelhorn'11 -2.57 COC'11  2.00 COR'11 -2.57 GPF'11  1.14 JNats'11 1.60 WC'12  2.43	4S Finlandia'12  1.83 SkA'12 -3.00 NHK'12 -1.71 GPF'12 (popped to 2S) JNats'12 -1.80 4CC'13 (popped to 2s) WC'13 < -1.86   Finladia'13 1.50 SC'13 -3.00 TEB'13 (popped to 1s) GPF'13 -3.00 JNat's 13 -3.00 OWG'14 -3.00 WC'14 0.00   COC'14 -2.86 NHK'14 (popped to 2S) GPF'14  2.43 JNats'14 -3.00 WC'14 (popped to 2S) WTT'14  2.57   ACI'15  1.80 SC'15  1.71 NHK'15  2.86 GPF'15  3.00
4Lo ACI'16  SP 0.80  FS 0.40 SC'16  SP << -2.10  FS << -2.10 NHK'16  SP -2.63  FS  1.57 GPF'16  SP -1.03  FS  1.14 4CC'17  SP  2.29  FS  2.14 WC'17  SP  2.43  FS  2.43 WTT'17 SP (popped to 1Lo)  FS 2.57   COR'18  SP < -2.06  FS (popped to 3Lo)	4Lz COR'18 1.14

 

[cinemacoconut]

53 minutes ago, kaeryth said:

@cinemacoconut... you know what's funny? Yuzu usually lands his new jumps in his first competition trying it with +GOEs.... then it goes a bit awry before becoming stable. He actually got the 4Lo stable much faster than anticipated (probably because he does it both in the SP and FS unlike when he started the 4S). The success rate of the 4Lo only went down during the '17-18 season because he only jumped it at COR'18 and that was after having the knee pain at ACI and because he was concentrating too much on 4Lz. I'm not saying he'll be able to jump 4A and get +GOE immediately but let's just say he does have a pattern and we should never underestimate Mr Hanyu

 

4T NHK'10  1.29 COR'10 (popped to 3T) JNats'10 (popped to 3T) 4CC'11  2.00   Nebelhorn'11 -2.57 COC'11  2.00 COR'11 -2.57 GPF'11  1.14 JNats'11 1.60 WC'12  2.43	4S Finlandia'12  1.83 SkA'12 -3.00 NHK'12 -1.71 GPF'12 (popped to 2S) JNats'12 -1.80 4CC'13 (popped to 2s) WC'13 < -1.86   Finladia'13 1.50 SC'13 -3.00 TEB'13 (popped to 1s) GPF'13 -3.00 JNat's 13 -3.00 OWG'14 -3.00 WC'14 0.00   COC'14 -2.86 NHK'14 (popped to 2S) GPF'14  2.43 JNats'14 -3.00 WC'14 (popped to 2S) WTT'14  2.57   ACI'15  1.80 SC'15  1.71 NHK'15  2.86 GPF'15  3.00
4Lo ACI'16  SP 0.80  FS 0.40 SC'16  SP << -2.10  FS << -2.10 NHK'16  SP -2.63  FS  1.57 GPF'16  SP -1.03  FS  1.14 4CC'17  SP  2.29  FS  2.14 WC'17  SP  2.43  FS  2.43 WTT'17 SP (popped to 1Lo)  FS 2.57   COR'18  SP < -2.06  FS (popped to 3Lo)	4Lz COR'18 1.14

 

 

 

Oh thnks for the info.

 

But its true that it took 3 whole season to make quad salchow his Weapon with 2.5 + GOEs. Thats what yuzu is aiming for with his 4A i presume. So Im guessing at least 2 seasons

[Xen]

10 hours ago, meoima said:

Yuzuru can win Beijing Olympics if he stays healthy. But... he seems to be content with 2 Olympic gold, and his goal might be just landing the 4A in competition then retire and becomes a coach/instructor for young skaters. Personally I guess Yuzuru wants to retire at WC 2019 as it will be in Japan.

His remarks to CBC interview seems to me he’s thinking of retirement honestly, that he feels if he leaves now, Japan men will be in good hands. 

Well personally I don’t think Japan men will be in good hands if Yuzuru retires. But that’s the story of another day, as you know, that kind of bad technique will catch up eventually. 

It depends on his goals. If he suddenly gets that random idea that he wants to land a 4A on Olympic stage, then we better grab our wigs and get ready for the wild ride. He's very forward thinking of what he wants in terms of his skating, but I don't know if he's completely crystal clear on everything in terms of life goals. Originally Sochi and PC gold were his goals since childhood. To a degree, other than 4A, he's fulfilled many of his essentials childhood goals-granted we don't know the full list, so maybe there's more. But he could come up with new goals now, or even after 4A is done in competition. Completing one goal begets bigger goals sort of. 

 

I think the quote of "not needing to worry about Japan's future" might be more in reference to worlds. I think at that point, even before Olys, he knew there was a very high possibility he could not do worlds this year. So perhaps Shoma winning the Silver gave him comfort that he really did not have to push himself and possibly ruin his future health by pushing worlds.

 

Another idea, is what if he leaves for a season or half a season or not do full season runs in the GP circuit for a while, but comes back fully by 21/22? Similar to what Plushenko did in the runup to Vancouver. He doesn't have anything to prove anymore (I hope), so for him it's more about what he likes (skating, competing, Nessie, making the impossible possible), and he's still the biggest threat in Men's, at a pace that he wants and dictates. Looking at the junior men now, I think we've hit a plateau of sorts on the technical side (unless someone magically pulls out a quint), so I think technically, Yuzu's fine, just a bit of polish and he's good to go.

 

Junior men in general has been a bit blah these days. I think other than Artur Danielyan (sp?), and maybe Torgashev and Grassl, the rest haven't impressed me too much.  I want to see good 3A's especially since 3A may take on greater importance in the future.

[OonsieHui]

I have this notion that Yuzu is going to land 4A.... Then no one else will for quite some time. And we will be getting commenters going like "and now the 4A.... He is still the only one in the world to do it....marvelous! Smooth as silk!" 

[WinForPooh]

3 hours ago, kaeryth said:

@cinemacoconut... you know what's funny? Yuzu usually lands his new jumps in his first competition trying it with +GOEs.... then it goes a bit awry before becoming stable. He actually got the 4Lo stable much faster than anticipated (probably because he does it both in the SP and FS unlike when he started the 4S). The success rate of the 4Lo only went down during the '17-18 season because he only jumped it at COR'18 and that was after having the knee pain at ACI and because he was concentrating too much on 4Lz. I'm not saying he'll be able to jump 4A and get +GOE immediately but let's just say he does have a pattern and we should never underestimate Mr Hanyu

 

4T NHK'10  1.29 COR'10 (popped to 3T) JNats'10 (popped to 3T) 4CC'11  2.00   Nebelhorn'11 -2.57 COC'11  2.00 COR'11 -2.57 GPF'11  1.14 JNats'11 1.60 WC'12  2.43	4S Finlandia'12  1.83 SkA'12 -3.00 NHK'12 -1.71 GPF'12 (popped to 2S) JNats'12 -1.80 4CC'13 (popped to 2s) WC'13 < -1.86   Finladia'13 1.50 SC'13 -3.00 TEB'13 (popped to 1s) GPF'13 -3.00 JNat's 13 -3.00 OWG'14 -3.00 WC'14 0.00   COC'14 -2.86 NHK'14 (popped to 2S) GPF'14  2.43 JNats'14 -3.00 WC'14 (popped to 2S) WTT'14  2.57   ACI'15  1.80 SC'15  1.71 NHK'15  2.86 GPF'15  3.00
4Lo ACI'16  SP 0.80  FS 0.40 SC'16  SP << -2.10  FS << -2.10 NHK'16  SP -2.63  FS  1.57 GPF'16  SP -1.03  FS  1.14 4CC'17  SP  2.29  FS  2.14 WC'17  SP  2.43  FS  2.43 WTT'17 SP (popped to 1Lo)  FS 2.57   COR'18  SP < -2.06  FS (popped to 3Lo)	4Lz COR'18 1.14

 

Alien.

 

Wasn't he training all of those quads for a couple of seasons before he put them in his programmes? It might depend on just how long he's been doing that 4A training. I remember something about him having been training the 4Lz for a while before he put it in his layout. Now that I think about it, it does fit with the timeline of when Max and Miki mentioned him and Nessie. 

[Xen]

1 hour ago, WinForPooh said:

Alien.

 

Wasn't he training all of those quads for a couple of seasons before he put them in his programmes? It might depend on just how long he's been doing that 4A training. I remember something about him having been training the 4Lz for a while before he put it in his layout. Now that I think about it, it does fit with the timeline of when Max and Miki mentioned him and Nessie. 

Well my quad ladies and the salarymen quads came out after Rostel, and there was a reason I inserted that Hanyu had been pursuing lady 4Lz for 3 years. My guess is off season 2014 he started the work on 4Lz, and I guess maybe 4A was started summer of 2016. He might not have been serious but he started the preparations for it perhaps?  It would fit with the timeline, of about 2-3 years per new jump, though that makes me want to strangle him if true (boy, you just healed in summer of 2016 and you go up and do what for fun?!). But going with that timeline, I think perhaps he won't really show it until 19/20.  Unless he actually started in 2015 and we just don't know it....

[WinForPooh]

1 hour ago, Xen said:

Well my quad ladies and the salarymen quads came out after Rostel, and there was a reason I inserted that Hanyu had been pursuing lady 4Lz for 3 years. My guess is off season 2014 he started the work on 4Lz, and I guess maybe 4A was started summer of 2016. He might not have been serious but he started the preparations for it perhaps?  It would fit with the timeline, of about 2-3 years per new jump, though that makes me want to strangle him if true (boy, you just healed in summer of 2016 and you go up and do what for fun?!). But going with that timeline, I think perhaps he won't really show it until 19/20.  Unless he actually started in 2015 and we just don't know it....

Who knows anything with him. Remember that gala or ice show or something where they had the quad-off and he gave the 4A a go? And fell, obviously? What if he did that because he'd already landed it? 

 

Though the 4Lz training was interrupted by the intensive 4Lo training, and now there is only the 4A left. And the 4F (hehe). You know, we should go back and watch his 3As from the last two seasons and see when they started getting quite so big, with his arms so relatively loose. If all we have is speculation, we should really dive deep into it.  

[OonsieHui]

Wonder whether maybe the 4A can't be judged in the same timeline kind of way as the other quads. Because it's the axel and Yuzu LOVES the axel and is it's King essentially. 

[Xen]

2 minutes ago, WinForPooh said:

Though the 4Lz training was interrupted by the intensive 4Lo training, and now there is only the 4A left. And the 4F (hehe). You know, we should go back and watch his 3As from the last two seasons and see when they started getting quite so big, with his arms so relatively loose. If all we have is speculation, we should really dive deep into it.  

Well considering when he tried that...was that before 15/16 off season?

I'm now soo suspicious of that look he gave when they did that projection of his 4A. I guess he figured out the height already, but I think he might have had trouble with the distance calculation. A certain glee that he was so close to being right....

 

[BeningLin]

Excuse me.... I just want to ask about the jumping passes in SP. Isn't the third jumping pass, other than a solo jump and a combination is an Axel Jump?

[yuzupon]

7 minutes ago, BeningLin said:

Excuse me.... I just want to ask about the jumping passes in SP. Isn't the third jumping pass, other than a solo jump and a combination is an Axel Jump?

 

It's either 2A or 3A for Senior.

 

For junior, it has to be 2A for Junior Ladies, it's either 2A or 3A for Junior Men.

 

ETA: fixing the requirement for Senior.