General Skating Chat

[Sombreuil]

I don't know why but I have the impression that Shoma leaves all that to his team and doesn't really want to get involved in those choices?  There was an interview with Keiji Tanaka in which he said he preferred to leave the music to his coach as he didn't want to pick something he really liked only to find he got sick of it by the end of the season- I get the impression that Shoma does the same though not necessarily for the same reason.

[kaeryth]

@LadyLou / @Summer, I think I've posted it before but in case someone missed it (the gen yuzu thread moves at a faster rate than the gen skating thread after all )

 

Yuzu's 2T with helicopter arms

Spoiler

 

Yuzu's 3Lz-2T(with arms on the waist)

Spoiler

 

Yuzu's 2S with helicopter arms

Spoiler

 

 

 

[EisElle]

46 minutes ago, kaeryth said:

@LadyLou / @Summer, I think I've posted it before but in case someone missed it (the gen yuzu thread moves at a faster rate than the gen skating thread after all )

 

Yuzu's 2T with helicopter arms

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Yuzu's 3Lz-2T(with arms on the waist)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Yuzu's 2S with helicopter arms

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

thank you  

[Summer]

Thank you both @LadyLou and @kaeryth for providing these rather funny examples.

The gen yuzu thread indeed moves so fast that I inevitably miss something. But I'm not complaining because that just makes it great.

[Guest turquoiseblue]

On 31/10/2017 at 1:04 AM, katonice said:

 

 

On 31/10/2017 at 1:08 AM, Danibellerika said:

"Olympic champion Yuzuru Hanyu said the healthy rivalry he has with reigning world champion Javier Fernandez pushes him to reach new highs, and he believes he will display that elevated performance in Pyeongchang in February."

 

Fact check, people. Fact check!

 

I contacted them and they have fixed it. They said that since it is a Kyodo News article, they have also notified the news agency about the error. 

[meoima]

On 10/30/2017 at 10:04 PM, Murieleirum said:

 

I completely agree. With Classical music, it's harder than one imagines to create good coreography. Because the music goes off on his own, so if your body movements and your mood/interpretation doesn't perfectly compliment the music and enrich it, it's gonna feel like it's kinda useless. And 'useless' is what I feel towards Shoma's LP this season. 

Especially the moment when he stops and goes 'Nessun Dorma' with his arms, lol, it should be a powerful moment but it's pretty meaningless to me (to Shoma) still. 

The issue with choreography for classical music is that the choreographer and the skater most of the time have no idea what they’re creating programs to.

Carmen is easy, there is a story to it, just follow. Madame Butterfly, Turandot, Tosca... the same... BUT... most of the time I see that the skaters don’t bother to watch or to read about the stories at all it seems. Like literally how can you smile during Madame Butterfly’s saddest aria? Or if you’re the princess in Turandot you’re not supposed to smile, you’re supposed to be a cold beauty that kill people at the drop of a hat. 

And then let’s not talk about the absolute music like Rachmaninov piano concerto no 2. Or Tchaikovsky Piano concerto no 1... it’s so difficult to create an image from those things, but that’s why it’s opened to all skaters to choose.

personally I think skating to a program without story is the hardest, for example Yuzuru’s Chopin, there is no image, no story, no lyrics to follow. All you can do is feel. Seimei is easier to connect to, it has a theme, a story and a character but the technical content is crazy. So it’s still a huge challenge. 

[Murieleirum]

2 minutes ago, meoima said:

personally I think skating to a program without story is the hardest, for example Yuzuru’s Chopin, there is no image, no story, no lyrics to follow. All you can do is feel. Seimei is easier to connect to, it has a theme, a story and a character but the technical content is crazy. So it’s still a huge challenge. 

 

That's actually what I love the most about Chopin. Yuzu created his own image inside the music, so well and so vividly that it became his own... He may not have made research about Chopin's life, but it's like he knows without knowing. For him, those crazy scales, those fast-paced turbins of notes during the step sequence, have meaning. And giving meaning to every note is a musician's most important job, so if a skater manages to do it... off the hat goes. Outstanding. 

[meoima]

2 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

That's actually what I love the most about Chopin. Yuzu created his own image inside the music, so well and so vividly that it became his own... He may not have made research about Chopin's life, but it's like he knows without knowing. For him, those crazy scales, those fast-paced turbins of notes during the step sequence, have meaning. And giving meaning to every note is a musician's most important job, so if a skater manages to do it... off the hat goes. Outstanding. 

My friend who plays Chopin Ballade 1 so often thinks they cut the music quite well. Personally this is not my favorite piece (never been a fan of Chopin) but yes I love the dreamy feeling of it. And at CoR even though he messed the jumps, the performance was still outstanding. 

[Murieleirum]

2 minutes ago, meoima said:

My friend who plays Chopin Ballade 1 so often thinks they cut the music quite well. Personally this is not my favorite piece (never been a fan of Chopin) but yes I love the dreamy feeling of it. And at CoR even though he messed the jumps, the performance was still outstanding. 

 

Ita ESP was so disappointed at that sudden fall on the 3Toeloop! They know how much it can take away in terms of score, and such a fall for Yuzuru is just such a silly mistake. But I guess, better to have happened now, than anywhere and anywhen later in the year. 

Also, I don't know why, I'm always less nervous watching Chopin than watching Seimei. Maybe because, like you said, the technical content for Seimei, especially this year, is unparalleled. Like, I just saw GPF 2015 Seimei and it was like I finally realized how much the new Seimei is different from the past. The technical content is so completely different, it should be no surprise to anyone that he didn't go clean for his first two competitions of the season. 

[Xen]

3 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

 

Ita ESP was so disappointed at that sudden fall on the 3Toeloop! They know how much it can take away in terms of score, and such a fall for Yuzuru is just such a silly mistake. But I guess, better to have happened now, than anywhere and anywhen later in the year. 

Also, I don't know why, I'm always less nervous watching Chopin than watching Seimei. Maybe because, like you said, the technical content for Seimei, especially this year, is unparalleled. Like, I just saw GPF 2015 Seimei and it was like I finally realized how much the new Seimei is different from the past. The technical content is so completely different, it should be no surprise to anyone that he didn't go clean for his first two competitions of the season. 

Thing is, most skaters do not strike me as the type to listen to classical misic casually, Yuzu included, which is a shame when you consider how much it is used in skating. This in turn contributes to the warhorses problem and less than stellar interpretations we see. 

[singcarcom]

2 hours ago, Xen said:

Thing is, most skaters do not strike me as the type to listen to classical misic casually, Yuzu included, which is a shame when you consider how much it is used in skating. This in turn contributes to the warhorses problem and less than stellar interpretations we see. 

I agree...and most skaters are really young...Not saying that being young is bad, but some pieces are difficult to interpret if you don't have relevant experiences in life. Many of their lives have been just focused on figure skating, which might not offer the depth required to truly understand and present a master piece. 

[Murieleirum]

6 hours ago, singcarcom said:

I agree...and most skaters are really young...Not saying that being young is bad, but some pieces are difficult to interpret if you don't have relevant experiences in life. Many of their lives have been just focused on figure skating, which might not offer the depth required to truly understand and present a master piece. 

 

That is exactly the thing that sets Yuzuru apart from other skaters, I believe. His depth of interpretation was always visible, since he was a junior, and even more after the Tohoku Earthquake of 2011. The challenges he had to face in life made him a stronger person, and that is painfully obvious when you see him skate, and then you see everyone else. 

[fireovertheice]

@meoima said:

Quote

And then let’s not talk about the absolute music like Rachmaninov piano concerto no 2. Or Tchaikovsky Piano concerto no 1... it’s so difficult to create an image from those things, but that’s why it’s opened to all skaters to choose. Personally I think skating to a program without story is the hardest (...)

 

I cannot agree more. But I do not know if is only the age to play a part here. It's a fact of sensibility to the music, the type of reactivity you have to the music in sense of what it can make emote and resonate in you with the its pure sound, and to make transfer these feelings to the movements of your body, here enhanced by the use fo the blades on the ice.

As a ballerina myself in the past, I can say that you have or you don't have it. And I have to say that very few skaters I have seen, also among the better ones, have it.

That's way is important to me that Yuzuru for the FS in his senior career wanted always to choose the music for his FS. And also that he took Chopin so long, because he said that after the first season he began to feel and to interpret better the music. These pieces of music and these programs can make click things in him that give him the capability to give us always very empatethic and charismatic performances, also when he make some errors.

That's also why at the present I am not touched by any means by the perfomances of Uno (SP) or Chen (FS), also when they don't have had major errors. You can feel it that they are skating to the music and the programmes that others chose for them, they haven't made them 'theirs' yet.

Maybe for Yuzuru the earthquake was a catalyst to wider his sensibility in respect to the music, but the natural predisposition has to be already there. This for me is 'musicality' - and not just the capacity to follow the rythm of the music with the movements of your body, such as some commentators seems to suggest and/or intend.

[singcarcom]

3 hours ago, fireovertheice said:

@meoima said:

 

I cannot agree more. But I do not know if is only the age to play a part here. It's a fact of sensibility to the music, the type of reactivity you have to the music in sense of what it can make emote and resonate in you with the its pure sound, and to make transfer these feelings to the movements of your body, here enhanced by the use fo the blades on the ice.

As a ballerina myself in the past, I can say that you have or you don't have it. And I have to say that very few skaters I have seen, also among the better ones, have it.

That's way is important to me that Yuzuru for the FS in his senior career wanted always to choose the music for his FS. And also that he took Chopin so long, because he said that after the first season he began to feel and to interpret better the music. These pieces of music and these programs can make click things in him that give him the capability to give us always very empatethic and charismatic performances, also when he make some errors.

That's also why at the present I am not touched by any means by the perfomances of Uno (SP) or Chen (FS), also when they don't have had major errors. You can feel it that they are skating to the music and the programmes that others chose for them, they haven't made them 'theirs' yet.

Maybe for Yuzuru the earthquake was a catalyst to wider his sensibility in respect to the music, but the natural predisposition has to be already there. This for me is 'musicality' - and not just the capacity to follow the rythm of the music with the movements of your body, such as some commentators seems to suggest and/or intend.

The earthquake was a life changer. But I think even before the earthquake, there was something special about Yuzu. I think having asthma played a part too...He's talented but he never had an easy path. His asthma used to be very bad when he was young, and despite that he trained hard and achieved what he did.

[fireovertheice]

To change the subject just for a moment and to continue the observations on "numbers" in the long/free program of Yuzuru and the others top men (and without any kind of negativity towards the others...).

 

Before I have counted the timing of one foot skating in their FS as posted in the general Yuzuru chat:

https://planethanyu.com/topic/3-general-yuzuru-chat/?do=findComment&comment=110593

https://planethanyu.com/topic/3-general-yuzuru-chat/?do=findComment&comment=110604

(but I have already seen that it is a work to do on average in different competition, because there could be some differences: so if you are interested in this, stay tuned...).

 

Now I have counted also the numbers of their crossovers. Here you are the first result of counting:

Yuzuru FS: 28 crossovers (COR)

Javier FS: 34 crossovers (AC)

Nathan FS: 44 crossovers (COR)

Shoma FS: 54 crossovers (SC)