General Skating Chat

[moonkat]

1 hour ago, SSS said:

adding 17cm will make it 77.1cm for 4A...what does this mean? in those tables, the only one which is higher than 77.1 is Kolyada's 4Lz ( 78.4cm )...

If the numbers for 4Lo are used, he just needs 66.5 cm.

 

If the 4Lz at WTT was 72cm, it is completely believable he has already landed 4A.

[meoima]

I am not sure that Russian analysis of jump heights is correct. I think a poster on GS did that the same for ladies and men years ago after Sochi. Then when this analysis came out, he did his own analysis and compared it to the Russian analysis and he said he found some very misleading numbers. It seems that the Russian analysis has made some serious mistakes in calculations, resulted in some very big margins.

[SSS]

On 10/20/2017 at 10:39 PM, moonkat said:

If the numbers for 4Lo are used, he just needs 66.5 cm.

 

If the 4Lz at WTT was 72cm, it is completely believable he has already landed 4A.

I think we all thought 4A was confirmed/born...:D

[Xen]

38 minutes ago, meoima said:

I am not sure that Russian analysis of jump heights is correct. I think a poster on GS did that the same for ladies and men years ago after Sochi. Then when this analysis came out, he did his own analysis and compared it to the Russian analysis and he said he found some very misleading numbers. It seems that the Russian analysis has made some serious mistakes in calculations, resulted in some very big margins.

Yes, there was one. And there is a blog by a guy measuring air time and translating airtime to min height needed per jump. Granted his numbers are outdated and he had a small sampling size. But the method should be perhaps a bit more sound:

min air time translated to min height

Frames translated into min air time

 

Roughly speaking, a 4T would require about 54 cm height, and 3A is about 49-50 cm minimum to be safe. And a 3Lz would require around 35 cm height to clear minimum, I can see that 4 Lz would probably need well over 65 cm jump height (the coach actually says that from 2lz to 3 Lz you have to double the jump height, so I'm not sure if it's needed again to go 3lz to 4lz, but I don't think Nathan has 70 cm yet).

[SSS]

@Xenjust curious, speaking of rotation speed, in Yuzu's 4lz, there is delayed rotation, which means the first rotation is...slow..does that mean if we remove the first rotation from calculation, his rotation speed will be faster?

[Xen]

20 minutes ago, SSS said:

@Xenjust curious, speaking of rotation speed, in Yuzu's 4lz, there is delayed rotation, which means the first rotation is...slow..does that mean if we remove the first rotation from calculation, his rotation speed will be faster?

might not, I think delayed rotation is just that he snaps to rotate later in a jump. But that he does it and needs to do that for this jump already says something.

[SSS]

31 minutes ago, Xen said:

might not, I think delayed rotation is just that he snaps to rotate later in a jump. But that he does it and needs to do that for this jump already says something.

that means his later rotation has faster speed. He can rotate fast

[xeyra]

Apparently Patrick and Shoma are not going to do the 4S at Skate Canada. Patrick will do only one quad in his SP and 2 4Ts and 2 3As in his FS; Shoma will replace the 4S for a 3Lo in his FS. The Salchow curse is strong so they're not risking it. 

[kaeryth]

55 minutes ago, xeyra said:

Apparently Patrick and Shoma are not going to do the 4S at Skate Canada. Patrick will do only one quad in his SP and 2 4Ts and 2 3As in his FS; Shoma will replace the 4S for a 3Lo in his FS. The Salchow curse is strong so they're not risking it. 

 

Maybe they should increase the value of the Salchow

So strategy-wise, Patrick wants to skate clean. For Shoma.... maybe the 4S consistency is not there yet but I feel that it's rare for him to back down. Which means his team knows the importance of skating clean right now especially in Canada.

[Murieleirum]

3 hours ago, kaeryth said:

Which means his team knows the importance of skating clean right now especially in Canada.

 

They don't want to bring on the curse of Japanese men losing over Canadian Patrick Chan in Canadian soil... 

[xeyra]

Interesting thread on Yuzu's 4Lz in comparison with Boyang's, but I can't actually find the analysis being referenced:

 

 

 

[Xen]

51 minutes ago, xeyra said:

Interesting thread on Yuzu's 4Lz in comparison with Boyang's, but I can't actually find the analysis being referenced:

 

 

 

Xeyra, Perform live is a company that records and does frames analysis to measure jump height, distance, angles and airtime. In fact the earlier Javi vs Sergei 3A comparison  was from them.  They have videos of a lot of skaters here: http://perform-live.com/blog/video-analysis-of-figure-skating.html and they also give quite a bit of video analysis and the articles also mentions why it seems skaters are having certain problems with their jumps.Go check out their updates on Rika's 3A, she can eat a couple guys live in 3A distance and flight time. 

 

 

But I would probably trust their stats quite a bit more than the russian jumping stats. If he has more flight time than even Boyang, then all I can say is WOW Yuzu, wow. And also, no wonder his landings are so far not that stable. Lastly, he has enough speed on exit the could probably push that momentum to add in a 3T next season, if he wanted to. By the way, Dartfish is an app that a lot of top skating coaches seem to use to do video analysis.  

 

And if anyone is interested, this is their analysis of Yuzu's GPF16 4Lo. It's quite technical, and you will get the magic of the pattern99 huge toe picks at work. But it's an interesting read for any of the more technical minded: Yuzu's 4Lo analysis

 

Hah, and based on the blade size listed...Yuzu is a size 395 in edea boots. Anyone trying to get him pooh shoes as souvenirs now? 

[Murieleirum]

2 minutes ago, Xen said:

Lastly, he has enough speed on exit the could probably push that momentum to add in a 3T next season, if he wanted to. 

 

_{Are you even questioning it?} 

[Xen]

2 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

_{Are you even questioning it?} 

depends, I mean he wants to bring Nessie into this world at some point, question is whether 18/19 or 19/20. So maybe the 4Lz3T has to wait its turn. 

[Murieleirum]

3 minutes ago, Xen said:

depends, I mean he wants to bring Nessie into this world at some point, question is whether 18/19 or 19/20. So maybe the 4Lz3T has to wait its turn. 

 

Mmh, true, I do believe he wants to try new combinations though. This season, he's given us different things with the 4T, nothing with the 4Loop (who's protesting and feeling kind of left out of the fun), so I do expect new combinations with new jumps next season... which is still a big question mark, because of Yuzuru AND Isu stuff, no? Everything could happen.