General Skating Chat

[moni]

It was. Brian said there were days when Yuzuru only landed 4Lo once in a whole practice session/whole day. And this is with him off-ice for 2-3 months and all. If he could really make the best out of the off-season, I will just say I would not completely rule out adding that jump into the program.

 

I agree with you.

However, my concern would be his 6-minute warm-up before FS: that means he has only 6 minutes to try 4 different quads and axel... and if he'll some misses, he won't have enough time to try it again more than once and could become anxious (4CC SP kind of thing)... especially his 4Lo - it's consistent in program, but he has to try is several times in the warm-up to get that feeling.

And if he'll have to skate 1st, he'll have to save his energy somehow as well... that's just scary even to think about it :omg:

[EisElle]

I am no expert but I believe Yuzuru will do his utmost to include the 4Lz. Aside from the higher BV, strategically it would allow him a lot more freedom in the LP were he to fail/pop one of the quads in competitions, as it is likely to happen sooner or later (let's hope sooner) :acceptable:

A lot of chances for emergengyQuads+Yolo3A layouts :yes:

I just hope he will take good care of his body.

[Yatagarasu]

Dara said:

So I think he'd train 4Lz in off-season, but won't include it in programs. Yet I'm 100% sure he'd upgrade his layout in some way just not that drastic.

 

I am genuinely interested in how though? He is severely limited to what he can do if he doesn't add the 4Lz so though technically speaking he will upgrade it for sure, if he adds 2 points to his BV, that is not truly an upgrade, not in reality.

Not when you have Shoma for one, and then Nathan, Boyang, etc.

 

On the other hand, he has been working on the 4Lz for a while now as mcq says. Max said 60% around Europeans. So now he has the whole off season where he is healthy, unlike the last one, and he has an entire season to get it working. Who cares if he's iffy or flubs the Lz at the GPF; it's PC where he needs to go clean. Honestly, which ever way I turn, I think he's going to add it because if he doesn't, then he really is going to be at the mercy of others, and that is not him. No need for a 5 quad program then, just the 4Lz. And adding it also raises his rep, which is daft, I know but we know how this game is played.

 

I think the risk of adding the 4Lz is worth it.

 

ETA

xeyra said:

Edit:

Now this, would be a different matter...

4Lz 4Lo 3F // 4S3T 4T 3A2T 4T1Lo3S 3A - BV: 111.26 (+7.83)

 

And this is perfect back up tbh that he can work on in advance. If he doesn't simply go for it straight up.

[b138oo]

Wow never heard ZERO PREROTATION mentioned ever in FS, bc well too much pre rotation is kinda the more popular topic. I guess that's why Yuzu's triples look so big, bc he doesn't pre rotate. This really great discussion from you guys really reminds me once again why Yuzu is called the genius on ice! :space:

 

I have a question, like a genuine one, if 3A which has 3.5 rotation is still called a triple, why does 3.25ish jumps like some other guys quads are called a quad? I mean is there any general rule like other than 3A, other jumps with more than 3 rotations are quad jumps? Bc logically speaking it's still a triple...

[randomanon]

Wow never heard ZERO PREROTATION mentioned ever in FS, bc well too much pre rotation is kinda the more popular topic. I guess that's why Yuzu's triples look so big, bc he doesn't pre rotate. This really great discussion from you guys really reminds me once again why Yuzu is called the genius on ice! :space:

 

I have a question, like a genuine one, if 3A which has 3.5 rotation is still called a triple, why does 3.25ish jumps like some other guys quads are called a quad? I mean is there any general rule like other than 3A, other jumps with more than 3 rotations are quad jumps? Bc logically speaking it's still a triple...

 

bc they've rotated ~0.5-0.75 on the ground

 

-> looks like 4 rotations therefore "quad"

ETA : I think most jumps will have some degree of prerotation though...

[meoima]

I feel like if we keep saying "Yuzuru will never do a 4F," it will only make him determined to try ;)

Wasn't there reports that he tried it along with the 4Lz attempts at WTT?

I highly doubt that those reporters at WTT actually can tell the different of Flip and Lutz entry though. :nono: I don't think Yuzuru ever tried a 4F at all.

 

I have a question, like a genuine one, if 3A which has 3.5 rotation is still called a triple, why does 3.25ish jumps like some other guys quads are called a quad? I mean is there any general rule like other than 3A, other jumps with more than 3 rotations are quad jumps? Bc logically speaking it's still a triple...

3,75 rotation on air is acceptable to be called a quad. But 3.25-ish like Shoma is too much. The point is ISU tech committee do not want to crack this take-off issue down before Olympic. They could not afford to affect the whole system before Olympic. So any change in the system will be after Olympic.

[Joey]

Yatagarasu said:

Honestly, which ever way I turn, I think he's going to add it because if he doesn't, then he really is going to be at the mercy of others, and that is not him.

 

And that IMO is the whole point and at the end what matters most. Yuzu just doesn't want to win stuff. He wants to win that damn gold with such a bang the other medals just shatter from impact and everyone else is left mopping silver and bronze dust off the floor. He wants to be unquestionable, completely untouchable if he skates clean. If he is 10pts+ behind on BV compared to the younger guys, than that's hardly the case.

 

Also, we're talking about Yuzu here. The guy who will go with the maximum of what he is capable off. Also the guys that had a nearly career ending injury thanks to overtraining the 4T, cut down extremely on training time on it and came out with a better 4T than every anyway. My money is on: if Yuzu wants the 4Lz, he gets the 4Lz. So a + b = 4Lz next season. The only question is to spread eagle or not to spread eagle?

[beki]

My money is on: if Yuzu wants the 4Lz, he gets the 4Lz.

:clap: I won't bet against him, that's for sure. He can do it.

[Yatagarasu]

The only question is to spread eagle or not to spread eagle?

 

The whole post is :goe: but that is totally rhetorical, right?

[Joey]

The only question is to spread eagle or not to spread eagle?

 

The whole post is :goe: but that is totally rhetorical, right?

 

:devil:

[unicorn]

Lots of pros and cons to choosing one path or the other. I wonder if he is struggling with this issue right now?

 

What to do, what to do!! :embSwan:

Lots of pros and cons, you're right. I think one of the most telling things is that Yuzuru really soaks up the atmosphere of each competition, like at 4CC he really was thinking of it as a special competition as the precursor to the Olympics, so he took note of how it looked, how it sounded, and how it felt. On the other hand, I think Shoma and Nathan both just said basically it wasn't particularly special, it was like any other competition, and they just had to do their job. That's Yuzuru, it's just how he's wired.

 

I think he really views this next Olympics as something special, so in this way, I think he wants to MAKE his Olympics moment at Pyeongchang special, and for me, I think that means upgrading to a 4Lz. I wouldn't judge his 1/9 success rate of the 4Lz at WTT as normal (end of the season, probably lots of fatigue, not seriously training it as he would a quad that he actually includes in his programs especially because it could interfere with his still-included 3Lz), I think he's fully capable of doing it. I think now that he's grown so much physically and mentally compared to when he was starting with his 4S, he was able to quickly adjust to a 2 quad short with Chopin, a 3 quad long with SEIMEI, and then the 4Lo was an overall success this season as well. The most important thing is staying injury free and he knows it. If he does, he controls his own quad-ing destiny.

[Danibellerika]

I think it's 4Lz or bust. And then unicorn's point about Olympic generosity drives that home even more for me. They will be lenient, which will not be good for Yuzu's BV. But then I hear all these ZZZZ music choices and wonder if everyone will actually go all out. At the very least, he will have to go head to head with his major rivals for gold all season long. If he is finishing behind them because he lacks the BV he'll be getting those signals throughout the season and the realize what he needs to do. :hachimaki:

[OmNom]

I think it's 4Lz or bust. And then unicorn's point about Olympic generosity drives that home even more for me. They will be lenient, which will not be good for Yuzu's BV. But then I hear all these ZZZZ music choices and wonder if everyone will actually go all out. At the very least, he will have to go head to head with his major rivals for gold all season long. If he is finishing behind them because he lacks the BV he'll be getting those signals throughout the season and the realize what he needs to do. :hachimaki:

 

wholeheartedly agree! while I can imagine he still has doubts about the 4lz, what I'm not uncertain about is his immense fighting spirit and unbelievably brilliant mind. he can totally see what's going on (I mean even we can!) and will judge how to tackle the big O while taking into consideration his health and abilities. I trust his sharp sense and unfazed attitude in front of a challenge! :space:

[Anna]

wholeheartedly agree! while I can imagine he still has doubts about the 4lz, what I'm not uncertain about is his immense fighting spirit and unbelievably brilliant mind. he can totally see what's going on (I mean even we can!) and will judge how to tackle the big O while taking into consideration his health and abilities. I trust his sharp sense and unfazed attitude in front of a challenge! :space:

 

Same here. I think we should just trust him. He knows what he is doing :s_yes

[meoima]

I think he insists on 4S3T in the second half of his LP because he will replace 4S in the first half by another quad.