General Skating Chat

[kaeryth]

1 hour ago, kiches said:

Actually I think it was the other way around where people thought it was Gabby and Kaetlyn she was pointing to but it was really his mom. I can almost make out what Tracy says in the Japanese broadcast. 

 

I do know that during practice his mom was sitting near that general area at least on day 1. (saw her sitting there with someone)  She was probably seated somewhere behind Gabby and Kaetlyn but all the photos I've seen cut off too much of the audience to tell. 

 

Oooooh.. I took a look at the Japanese Broadcast and you're right! I can make out Tracy saying 'You're mom is right there..."

 

Spoiler

 

... and yeah, audience pic cuts off after showing Team Canada.

 

 

[kaeryth]

4 minutes ago, meoima said:

Somehow I'd rather they don't peak that early. I don't know hoe to say it... but I mean... it's more reassuring if they don't do well in senior B and even senior A. 

 

They would have to though right? The criteria is National Champion gets a spot and second spot depends on their performances in the GP series /finale (but you might as well include the challenger series here because it's going to be a close fight).

[kamotejojo]

1 hour ago, kiches said:

Actually I think it was the other way around where people thought it was Gabby and Kaetlyn she was pointing to but it was really his mom. I can almost make out what Tracy says in the Japanese broadcast. 

 

I do know that during practice his mom was sitting near that general area at least on day 1. (saw her sitting there with someone)  She was probably seated somewhere behind Gabby and Kaetlyn but all the photos I've seen cut off too much of the audience to tell. 

Yeah, it can be heard in the Japanese broadcast (around 11:35 of the 14mins16secs version). But I've noticed Yuzu talks more with Tessa&Scott now.

If your eyes won't hurt, I've posted a pic below. Look for the purple circle. 

Spoiler

Credit: TWITTER

 

[Katt]

29 minutes ago, meoima said:

Somehow I'd rather they don't peak that early. I don't know hoe to say it... but I mean... it's more reassuring if they don't do well in senior B and even senior A. 

But they only have 2 spots for ladies, 1 is automatically go to national champ so all japanese ladies have to show strong performance all season, even the senior B. The situation is like japanese men back in 2013-14, they had 3 spots at that time and there's still debate between Dai/Kozuka/Oda. Imagine if there's only 2 spots at that time  

 

[Lyyli]

 

Did anyone make calculations, for how many points do you think Shoma was overscored at Lombardia? To me it looked like he was skating there in a very high tech and artistic level but I don´t see all the mistakes he is doing. What would be fair scores for that kind of a skate? I liked both of his programs and am amazed how great he has become. To me he is an artist because he is able to deliver a complete performance, not just execute elements one after another. About Jason, what do you think about his scores, was he overscored there?

[CupidsBow]

34 minutes ago, Lyyli said:

 

Did anyone make calculations, for how many points do you think Shoma was overscored at Lombardia? To me it looked like he was skating there in a very high tech and artistic level but I don´t see all the mistakes he is doing. What would be fair scores for that kind of a skate? I liked both of his programs and am amazed how great he has become. To me he is an artist because he is able to deliver a complete performance, not just execute elements one after another. About Jason, what do you think about his scores, was he overscored there?

 

I found the SP scoring to be way more questionable than his FS scoring but the GOE on his 4F maybe could've been lower and tbh mostly his composition/interpretation/performance scores maybe should've been a touch lower since he is get to really settle into the choreo and better marry the movements/elements to the music. Think about how good he was at giving the feeling of a character to loco by the end of the season, he's not there with his sp or fs yet (and really who expects him to be at the first comp of the season). As cute as him grinning through the program was it wasn't exactly in character for the music hahaha and I know he can refine his expression of the music better. 

 

I would maybe have his SP around no more than 99~100 highest, and his FS around 206? maybe? give or take a few fractions of points?

It's not like he did terribly but PCS was a few points too generous and some of the GOE was a bit fluffed. 92 for PCS in the FS is a bit much, I think 88/89 would've been more reasonable and 42/43 for the SP would've been just a bit less head scratching. There were a few jumps that maybe needed a -2 or -1 that didn't get that. And really I think it does a disservice to Shoma to throw extra points his way. He grew a lot last season and it does show now but he's not at the level he was at with his programs now as he was at the end of last season so it's kinda weird for him to be getting pcs scores so close/identical to the pcs he was getting at words for performances that were him at his best so far. I doubt hr's going to take it easy and think he's fine how he so so long as he doesn't fall on anything but Lombasrdia's scores kinda give that message.

[Katt]

42 minutes ago, Lyyli said:

 

Did anyone make calculations, for how many points do you think Shoma was overscored at Lombardia? To me it looked like he was skating there in a very high tech and artistic level but I don´t see all the mistakes he is doing. What would be fair scores for that kind of a skate? I liked both of his programs and am amazed how great he has become. To me he is an artist because he is able to deliver a complete performance, not just execute elements one after another. About Jason, what do you think about his scores, was he overscored there?

I would say, he should get 2-3 points lower in SP, and 7-8 points lower in FS ( 4lo looked UR and some GOE should lower). Thats TES only. About PCS, its his original base PCS is already high so they go with it. Still, I couldn't give nearly 46 pcs for the SP. There's very little transition, and choreo is not that good and the interpretation is not there yet. The same with his FS. That said, both are good skate, especially in the 1st competition

About Jason, a bit. His Tes is quite ok, still should get ! for his lutz in FS. I would give him 42 for SP and 87-88 for FS. But since they give Shoma high pcs, they have to do the same to Jason as their gap should be very small. Shoma's SS is better, but Jason has more transition, the rest are subjective. Shoma's music help him to have bigger impact, but Jason's performance look more complete.   

[Lyyli]

Many thanks CubidsBow and Katt for your replies. So you would have given him scores between 300-310 if I understood correctly. That is a lot too and imo well deserved. After FS I was expecting him to get total over 300 so I was not that surprised then. Not easy for me to compare these programs with Loco because of the different music genre. I think at Lombardia he was expressing this type of classic music splendidly already. I got the impression that he has taken steps forward in skating skills and other PCS areas. What comes to empty spots, aren´t they there mostly because of the quads. Quads make big scores also without transitions and the skaters and coaches probably need to eliminate the risks there. I think the demands for the skaters are really huge at the moment, maybe too huge. (Probably this is unnecessary but I need to say this as there is lots of cuteness talk here which is ok for me: About the cuteness comment, I know it was a joke, but as a (humorless??) person who does not care about those things and never participates on discussions concerning the looks of skaters, I need to say that his or anyone´s cuteness never effects on my opinions or impressions of the performances or of the skaters.) 

 

 

[ralucutzagy]

Nathan's 4Lo vs. Yuzu's 4Lo 

 

[MrPudding]

22 minutes ago, ralucutzagy said:

Nathan's 4Lo vs. Yuzu's 4Lo 

 

Yuzu's jump set up is really fast. No wonder the boy can get pressured 

And nathan's look nice too

[Lunna]

11 часов назад, Murieleirum сказал:

 

Lol OT but since I wasn't in the fandom yet, I'm curious, what was the first general reaction? What about the change from white to purple? 

ACI is always in the middle of the night for me, so my sleepy brain came only with "WHITE?! WHY???"  It was beautiful but I was happy with a change at NHK - I saw it was purple and a little shiny on the spins, but first time I was watching it at work with not very good quality stream, so after I saw first close up pictures I was like  

[Murieleirum]

43 minutes ago, ralucutzagy said:

Nathan's 4Lo vs. Yuzu's 4Lo 

 

 

Yuzuru has a clearly shorter set up, so that's worth more GOE, but I really liked Nathan's 4Lo as well. So Yuzu's is faster and more unpredictable, but both jumps are big and perfectly landed. 

 

1 hour ago, Lyyli said:

Many thanks CubidsBow and Katt for your replies. So you would have given him scores between 300-310 if I understood correctly. That is a lot too and imo well deserved. After FS I was expecting him to get total over 300 so I was not that surprised then. Not easy for me to compare these programs with Loco because of the different music genre. I think at Lombardia he was expressing this type of classic music splendidly already. I got the impression that he has taken steps forward in skating skills and other PCS areas. What comes to empty spots, aren´t they there mostly because of the quads. Quads make big scores also without transitions and the skaters and coaches probably need to eliminate the risks there. I think the demands for the skaters are really huge at the moment, maybe too huge. (Probably this is unnecessary but I need to say this as there is lots of cuteness talk here which is ok for me: About the cuteness comment, I know it was a joke, but as a (humorless??) person who does not care about those things and never participates on discussions concerning the looks of skaters, I need to say that his or anyone´s cuteness never effects on my opinions or impressions of the performances or of the skaters.) 

 

 

 

Could I give you my opinion as well? c: 

Yes, Shoma did wonderful in both SP and FS, so it's fair that he went over 300. He deserved high points; a bit less that what he got, especially in PCS, in my opinion. With tech like that, you can only really argue a little point here and there for GOE, and his jumps sometimes don't get as low GOE as they should. So, to me, with SP and FS combined, I wouldn't have taken out more that 5 points total. But I don't consider myself a tech expert at all, and I'm not talking with protocols in my hand (although I've read them). 

What bugs me the most is the PCS. You say he has taken step forward in skating skills and 'other PCS areas'. I would like you to pinpoint the precise steps he took, cause I don't see them. You said it yourself the 'empty spots are there because of the quads', so we can take Transitions out of the PCS he improved. Then you have Skating Skills. From the opinion of people who know FS better than me, I take it he is still doing lots of crossovers, so lots of two-footed skating. His edges are good, but not better than last year. Which is normal, if you ask me, since we're still in September. I would expect improvements to come more slowly, but since it's Olympic season everyone is impatient. Think about Jason Brown or Patrick Chan, the attention that they give to every single step they take on the ice, every movement has its meaning, every edge is highlighted. Jason Brown took less total PCS than Shoma. 

Then you have composition and performance, and since Shoma went clean, I guess he does deserves high scores here. Still, since the programs are new, and those empty spots during which he does crossovers or stares into the void are there, I would say it's right to give him room for improvement. To me, a 9.50 doesn't give room for improvement. (Reminds me of high school. My italian teacher was so good, I loved all his lessons and studied hard. My first test I got 7.5, and I got almost upset. It was the beginning of the year. That same year, in June, I managed to get a 10 on my test. Improvement takes time. Excellence takes time.)

Finally, you have Interpretation of music, and this is where I'm harsh. Shoma's interpretation of both classical pieces is the same. For Vivaldi, and for Turandot. This should already explain everything without the need to add more. If a musician played Vivaldi the same way he played Turandot, he would get fired. Shoma is intense and focused, but his intensity is void of concrete understanding of the pieces he is skating to. Which is normal, since, again, we are in September. Vivaldi is not easy to interpret. At least, in the SP, he tried to give shape to something. In the FS, I didn't even see an attempt. He was too concentrated on quads and you could say interpretation wasn't there at all. 

So, his PCS in SP shouldn't have been higher than 40, imo, and in FS shouldn't have been higher than 88. In total, that sums up to 305 total score, which is an excellent score for two excellent, but not outstanding and not revolutionary, performances. 

[katonice]

22 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

Could I give you my opinion as well? c: 

Yes, Shoma did wonderful in both SP and FS, so it's fair that he went over 300. He deserved high points; a bit less that what he got, especially in PCS, in my opinion. With tech like that, you can only really argue a little point here and there for GOE, and his jumps sometimes don't get as low GOE as they should. So, to me, with SP and FS combined, I wouldn't have taken out more that 5 points total. But I don't consider myself a tech expert at all, and I'm not talking with protocols in my hand (although I've read them). 

What bugs me the most is the PCS. You say he has taken step forward in skating skills and 'other PCS areas'. I would like you to pinpoint the precise steps he took, cause I don't see them. You said it yourself the 'empty spots are there because of the quads', so we can take Transitions out of the PCS he improved. Then you have Skating Skills. From the opinion of people who know FS better than me, I take it he is still doing lots of crossovers, so lots of two-footed skating. His edges are good, but not better than last year. Which is normal, if you ask me, since we're still in September. I would expect improvements to come more slowly, but since it's Olympic season everyone is impatient. Think about Jason Brown or Patrick Chan, the attention that they give to every single step they take on the ice, every movement has its meaning, every edge is highlighted. Jason Brown took less total PCS than Shoma. 

Then you have composition and performance, and since Shoma went clean, I guess he does deserves high scores here. Still, since the programs are new, and those empty spots during which he does crossovers or stares into the void are there, I would say it's right to give him room for improvement. To me, a 9.50 doesn't give room for improvement. (Reminds me of high school. My italian teacher was so good, I loved all his lessons and studied hard. My first test I got 7.5, and I got almost upset. It was the beginning of the year. That same year, in June, I managed to get a 10 on my test. Improvement takes time. Excellence takes time.)

Finally, you have Interpretation of music, and this is where I'm harsh. Shoma's interpretation of both classical pieces is the same. For Vivaldi, and for Turandot. This should already explain everything without the need to add more. If a musician played Vivaldi the same way he played Turandot, he would get fired. Shoma is intense and focused, but his intensity is void of concrete understanding of the pieces he is skating to. Which is normal, since, again, we are in September. Vivaldi is not easy to interpret. At least, in the SP, he tried to give shape to something. In the FS, I didn't even see an attempt. He was too concentrated on quads and you could say interpretation wasn't there at all. 

So, his PCS in SP shouldn't have been higher than 40, imo, and in FS shouldn't have been higher than 88. In total, that sums up to 305 total score, which is an excellent score for two excellent, but not outstanding and not revolutionary, performances. 

This. Couldn't have explained how I felt about the programs in a better way. 

[AsteroidB-612]

27 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

Everything 

Omg you have said exactly what I wanted to say so logically, sensibly!  that's was my problem with shoma performance and the judging at the event exactly! Like I said before, it was good and I can see the potential, but the scores are overkill..especially agree with the comment on his two classical piece performance and the PCS score. 

[GreatLakesGal]

Quote

If a musician played Vivaldi the same way he played Turandot, he would get fired. Shoma is intense and focused, but his intensity is void of concrete understanding of the pieces he is skating to.

 

Brilliant observation, Murieleirum.