General Skating Chat

[meoima]

24 minutes ago, moonkat said:

 If Yuzuru wins with 4T and 4S, did Plushenko need to be this accurate?

Just saying it might be one of the possibilities. For example 

1994, Urmanov won by simplifying the layout. He turned 4T into 3T.

1998, Kulik won by simplifying his programs

2002, Yagudin won also by simplifying his layout

2006, Plushenko simplified his layout 

2010, Evan simplified his layout 

2014, Yuzuru won not because of his BV, he scored the same with Patrick in the free (because both were messy), he won because his SP was cleaner (and, in a way, not doing 4T3T but 3lz3T for SP instead is also simplifying the layout). 

2018?????

 

So yeap... IF (just IF, because I don’t know the true context) Plushenko intentionally told NBC that Yuzuru only need 4T and 4S, he might have a point. 

 

Of course I still expect Yuzuru to do all the quads he can if he recovers fast in time, because he wants that. Challenging is what he is. 

 

And of course, I don’t rule out the % that Yuzuru will skate clean his 5 quads layout at the Olympic. So... fingers crossed.

[Elaine]

With 4T and 4S he could score 330, which is still considered as untouchable so based on historical numbers, yes he could win with two kinds of quads. But let's not rule out the possibility that youngster might land all their jumps at Oly and judges can easily lose control at Oly (if they have not already)Olympic is a whole difference universe after all.

[Neenah]

Yuzu may drop the 4Lz or maybe the 4L but I don't see him dropping both. He managed to skate perfectly a program with 4 quads and 2 triple axels and I don't think he will do any thing less than that even if he i injured. Remember, he wants to win with everyone doing their best and him watering down that much is not his best. I think that the performance is as important to Yuzuru as winning or else he wouldn't be regretting his free at Sochi even now. It is that quality about him that is the main reason of our anxiety but also the thing that makes his skating so special. After all, he could easily simplify his choreography and transitions, skate cleanly, and win everything but he doesn't because that is not the kind of performance he is satisfies with. 

 

I guess we as his fans will have to live with the fact that he is a perfectionist who likes challenge and would push his limits (and our sanity) to the max 

[liv]

Kulik simplified his 1998 layout? From what I remember, he was doing his hardest stuff there....

 

[meoima]

8 minutes ago, liv said:

Kulik simplified his 1998 layout? From what I remember, he was doing his hardest stuff there....

 

He ditched the transitions. Simplified a lot of the complexity. 

[meoima]

6 hours ago, Elaine said:

With 4T and 4S he could score 330, which is still considered as untouchable so based on historical numbers, yes he could win with two kinds of quads. But let's not rule out the possibility that youngster might land all their jumps at Oly and judges can easily lose control at Oly (if they have not already)Olympic is a whole difference universe after all.

Historically... the chance of landing all the most difficult quads in the Olympic is not high. I don’t rule out that all the guys can. Maybe that person will be Yuzuru, who skates clean 7 quads in total (yay).

 

But from my experience, it’s very tough. Maybe Plushenko wasn’t joking when he gave the interview to NBC Olympic. 

 

I think Yuzuru will still do 4lo at the Olympic.  But just saying what if his injury wouldn’t heal that fast. We don’t know if he can heal in time to do all 5 quads as he wants. With the danger goes along, for now 4lz might be out.

4lo... Well he hasn’t landed any clean 4lo in competition this season either. So yes I would be glad to see 4lo back but I wouldn’t be shocked if his condition wouldn’t allow him that.

 

He might heal well to do both 4lz and 4lo, or he might heal ok to do 4lo. Or he might end up with only 4S and 4T, who knows. I wouldn’t freak out if he comes back to Seimei 1.0 

 

We all hope for his full recovery, but we as his fans, and of course his coaching team, also have to be realistic. Let’s pray that he has a fast recovery. 

 

But in all of these possibilities, I can still see a high chance for him to win. All he needs is to believe in his training, his mentality and find the balance. 

[Elaine]

27 minutes ago, meoima said:

Historically... the chance of landing all the most difficult quads in the Olympic is not high. I don’t rule out that all the guys can. Maybe that person will be Yuzuru, who skates clean 7 quads in total (yay).

 

But from my experience, it’s very tough. Maybe Plushenko wasn’t joking when he gave the interview to NBC Olympic. 

 

I think Yuzuru will still do 4lo at the Olympic.  But just saying what if his injury wouldn’t heal that fast. We don’t know if he can heal in time to do all 5 quads as he wants. With the danger goes along, for now 4lz might be out.

4lo... Well he hasn’t landed any clean 4lo in competition this season either. So yes I would be glad to see 4lo back but I wouldn’t be shocked if his condition wouldn’t allow him that.

 

He might heal well to do both 4lz and 4lo, or he might heal ok to do 4lo. Or he might end up with only 4S and 4T, who knows. I wouldn’t freak out if he comes back to Seimei 1.0 

 

We all hope for his full recovery, but we as his fans, and of course his coaching team, also have to be realistic. Let’s pray that he has a fast recovery. 

 

But in all of these possibilities, I can still see a high chance for him to win. All he needs is to believe in his training, his mentality and fine the balance. 

 

Indeed, by all means. Plushenko might be very serious when he said that in the interview; he is four-times Olympian. He knows the drill. Thank you so much meoimaI feel much better now. I am gonna survive the rest of the season with a peaceful mind.

[Sombreuil]

2 hours ago, meoima said:

He ditched the transitions. Simplified a lot of the complexity. 

Which I can't see Yuzuru being willing to do - fewer quads yes possibly, but always with difficult transitions 

[GreatLakesGal]

4 hours ago, meoima said:

I was reading Jackie Wong’s article about Yuzuru’s injury and that the pain in the right leg might affect his Loop and Lutz and Flip. I think there will be no issue with his Flip since it’s a triple anyway. The 4Lo and 4Lz might be in trouble if his right leg wouldn’t heal in time for him to start practicing them again. 

I think at this rate he will have to ditch the 4lz, not enough time to stabilize it. Hopefully he will get back his 4lo soon. 

 

I would be shocked if he started practicing the 4Lz again. I just hope he can still do the 4Lo for the Olympics after working so hard to master it.

 

Finally took a look at the men's SP scores. I wonder if Patrick regrets withdrawing now.

[ralucutzagy]

3 hours ago, GreatLakesGal said:

 

I would be shocked if he started practicing the 4Lz again. I just hope he can still do the 4Lo for the Olympics after working so hard to master it.

 

Finally took a look at the men's SP scores. I wonder if Patrick regrets withdrawing now.

Idts ... like Javi, he wouldn't have had many chances to qualify even winning this ...

[Xen]

Actually I'm thinking the opposite of you guys. I think the 4Lz is going to come out, but a 4Lo might be harder to practice. The area he injured himself would affect all his landings, but any take off that involves twisting his right leg side (ankle, knees) would be harder. And guess which jump relies completely on the right leg for take off? Yup, loop. 

 

But given what it is, I think he could afford to go with the layout he had at ACI for the SP. Even if judges do not pile on the +3 GOE, if Yuzu goes clean, he could still score around the 109-112 range, which most of the other guys have not received yet.  As for 4Lz, my feeling when watching him practice is he puts TOO MUCH energy into it. So part of me even wonders if 4Lz as a second jump would actually help calm him down? Maybe I'm just being crazy since I'm still affected by the WD news even today. 

[Katt]

10 hours ago, meoima said:

I was reading Jackie Wong’s article about Yuzuru’s injury and that the pain in the right leg might affect his Loop and Lutz and Flip. I think there will be no issue with his Flip since it’s a triple anyway. The 4Lo and 4Lz might be in trouble if his right leg wouldn’t heal in time for him to start practicing them again. 

I think at this rate he will have to ditch the 4lz, not enough time to stabilize it. Hopefully he will get back his 4lo soon. 

I can see him ditch the 4lz to focus more on 4lo. His 4lo in August was great, he landed some great ones at COR practice too. I dont know how his injury would affect to 4lo/4lz, but even before that, his 4lo is better than 4lz, in term of success rate and quality. I think he may return to last year's layout, and maybe only do 4lo in FS. There's some senior B until National, like Golden spin is at the same time with GPF but I dont think he will do it. Hopefully his right leg would be healed soon. 

Given how media often works, we might hear about his condition next week. Even if they dont, Brian or Tracy will go with Javi at TEB, we definitely get some info from them. 

[CupidsBow]

1 hour ago, ralucutzagy said:

Idts ... like Javi, he wouldn't have had many chances to qualify even winning this ...

 

Patrick came 4th and got 9 points towards qualification. If he came in 1st here he would have gotten 24 points which is way more likely to earn qualification than the 20 Javier can get maximum. 

But....what's done is done. I hope it works out for him but it does seem a shame.

[ralucutzagy]

1 minute ago, CupidsBow said:

 

Patrick came 4th and got 9 points towards qualification. If he came in 1st here he would have gotten 24 points which is way more likely to earn qualification than the 20 Javier can get maximum. 

But....what's done is done. I hope it works out for him but it does seem a shame.

Oh, right, he came 4th, I thought he came lower ... he would have had a chance, yes, my bad

[meoima]

1 hour ago, Xen said:

Actually I'm thinking the opposite of you guys. I think the 4Lz is going to come out, but a 4Lo might be harder to practice. The area he injured himself would affect all his landings, but any take off that involves twisting his right leg side (ankle, knees) would be harder. And guess which jump relies completely on the right leg for take off? Yup, loop. 

 

But given what it is, I think he could afford to go with the layout he had at ACI for the SP. Even if judges do not pile on the +3 GOE, if Yuzu goes clean, he could still score around the 109-112 range, which most of the other guys have not received yet.  As for 4Lz, my feeling when watching him practice is he puts TOO MUCH energy into it. So part of me even wonders if 4Lz as a second jump would actually help calm him down? Maybe I'm just being crazy since I'm still affected by the WD news even today. 

I think the injury in right ankle will affect both Lutz and Loop. But maybe it’s just not a serious injury so he can soon land both quads after several weeks. We should hope for the best.