General Yuzuru Chat

[Umebachi]

Just now, KatjaThera said:

I seriously think everyone is overreacting... it's just a 10 seconds song, not Yuzu fans starting a Yuzu hymn chant - ever watched a soccer game, btw? And that's more of a sport in the eyes of many than FS ever was.

 

That being said, discussing with my friend who has been more deeply immersed in Japanese cultures than even some young Japanese, she explained to me the two big arguments against singing Happy Birthday, from a Japanese point of view. The first one I knew, and was going to mention it as well, but the second was news to me, too.

 

First, birthdays aren't really celebrated in Japan. Even if they are, more recently, they're not really as big a deal there as they are elsewhere.

 

Second, even if someone chooses to celebrate his/her birthday, it is a private decision and a private affair. Therefore, fans singing Happy Birthday to him, would be a sort of imposition on his private life and therefore, essentially rude (well, Yuzu being Yuzu, he'd maybe just find it awkward and embarrassing).

 

Yes, singing Happy Birthday to Japanese celebrities happens sometimes, and apparently media/co-workers gifting cakes on one's birthday is a sort of professional ritual, and not considered an actual celebration. But the bottom line is, it might just turn out to be more awkward than fun for Yuzu - or he might worry some of the more traditional Japanese around him and at home might find it inappropriate - so it's not really worth it, IMO

 

Cultural differences are a real thing and we have to keep in mind that Yuzu's culture is different from most others and should try to respect it as much as possible.

 

As such, I think birthday banners are the best compromise, after all. It's not really worth the fan war, IMO. Yuzu will be more upset about fans fighting with fans than he would be if nobody sings Happy Birthday to him.

 

I fully agree with your friend.  B-days are not part of our traditional culture: it has become popular for young children and it is seen as indulging the very young but not appropriate for adults. I personally don't feel comfortable with Bday parties or people singing HBD to me, even after 30 years in international organizations where this was a regular occurence.  I have tolerated it and have smiled to show appreciation but I have to admit now that it was never a pleasant experience for me (apologies to all my colleagues who were so kind to me...).  Why this discomfort?  I can't speak for others, but for me it feels like calling attention to oneself, way too much focus on self/ego, and I feel that bad karma will strike me for being so self-indulgent (bachi-atari).  I know and appreciate that this is NOT what it is meant to be around the world,  and I am glad to see how much joy it brings to so many cultures around the world.  I am just conveying my personal reaction and why I have such a visceral negative reaction to B-day parties for myself... 

 

I am not making any judgement on whether the audience should or should not sing HBD.  That is a personal choice and I celebrate all expressions of love and appreciation for Yuzu and grateful to all the fans for caring so much.   I am just explaining and sharing why some (not all) Japanese feel a little bit uncomfortable with it so that you are aware of the general atmosphere.  Since GPF is in Torino, you will probably not meet too many frowns of disapprobation (except from some Japanese aunties..?). 

 

 

[Henni147]

16 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

First, birthdays aren't really celebrated in Japan. Even if they are, more recently, they're not really as big a deal there as they are elsewhere.

 

Second, even if someone chooses to celebrate his/her birthday, it is a private decision and a private affair. Therefore, fans singing Happy Birthday to him, would be a sort of imposition on his private life and therefore, essentially rude (well, Yuzu being Yuzu, he'd maybe just find it awkward and embarrassing).

 

Well, Yuzu encouraged the whole CWW audience to sing Happy Birthday for Javi in a public broadcast. I don't think that he asked Javi for permission before the show. So yeah... that much about Yuzu, birthdays and private decisions 

[yuzuangel]

3 minutes ago, Umebachi said:

 

I fully agree with your friend.  B-days are not part of our traditional culture: it has become popular for young children and it is seen as indulging the very young but not appropriate for adults. I personally don't feel comfortable with Bday parties or people singing HBD to me, even after 30 years in international organizations where this was a regular occurence.  I have tolerated it and have smiled to show appreciation but I have to admit now that it was never a pleasant experience for me (apologies to all my colleagues who were so kind to me...).  Why this discomfort?  I can't speak for others, but for me it feels like calling attention to oneself, way too much focus on self/ego, and I feel that bad karma will strike me for being so self-indulgent (bachi-atari).  I know and appreciate that this is NOT what it is meant to be around the world,  and I am glad to see how much joy it brings to so many cultures around the world.  I am just conveying my personal reaction and why I have such a visceral negative reaction to B-day parties for myself... 

 

I am not making any judgement on whether the audience should or should not sing HBD.  That is a personal choice and I celebrate all expressions of love and appreciation for Yuzu and grateful to all the fans for caring so much.   I am just explaining and sharing why some (not all) Japanese feel a little bit uncomfortable with it so that you are aware of the general atmosphere.  Since GPF is in Torino, you will probably not meet too many frowns of disapprobation (except from some Japanese aunties..?). 

 

 

Thank you for your insight.

[Neenah]

About the birthday song, I think that when in doubt, we should go with the safest choice. This is not about us or our feelings but about Yuzu, so we need to make sure we don't cause him any trouble of any kind.

 

[KatjaThera]

1 minute ago, Umebachi said:

 

I fully agree with your friend.  B-days are not part of our traditional culture: it has become popular for young children and it is seen as indulging the very young but not appropriate for adults. I personally don't feel comfortable with Bday parties or people singing HBD to me, even after 30 years in international organizations where this was a regular occurence.  I have tolerated it and have smiled to show appreciation but I have to admit now that it was never a pleasant experience for me (apologies to all my colleagues who were so kind to me...).  Why this discomfort?  I can't speak for others, but for me it feels like calling attention to oneself, way too much focus on self/ego, and I feel that bad karma will strike me for being so self-indulgent (bachi-atari).  I know and appreciate that this is NOT what it is meant to be around the world,  and I am glad to see how much joy it brings to so many cultures around the world.  I am just conveying my personal reaction and why I have such a visceral negative reaction to B-day parties for myself... 

 

I am not making any judgement on whether the audience should or should not sing HBD.  That is a personal choice and I celebrate all expressions of love and appreciation for Yuzu and grateful to all the fans for caring so much.   I am just explaining and sharing why some (not all) Japanese feel a little bit uncomfortable with it so that you are aware of the general atmosphere.  Since GPF is in Torino, you will probably not meet too many frowns of disapprobation (except from some Japanese aunties..?). 

 

 

Thank you for your comment. I probably didn't explain it so well.

 

The point of exposing the Japanese take on this is this, IMO: if there is any chance Yuzu will feel uncomfortable with it, because of the way his culture is, how he was brought up, etc., then IMO, it should not be done.

 

And I remember that clip where they sang to him. I don't remember him looking very happy, rather he seemed to try to ignore it some and then just politely thanked the crowd, but he didn't seem all that thrilled. Maybe more embarrassed than thrilled.

 

And thinking about it, Yuzu doesn't strike me as the type to celebrate - his - birthdays. If only because they're usually during GPF when he's busy, but it just seems a bit like "yeah, it's my birthday, so what?"

[KatjaThera]

4 minutes ago, Henni147 said:

 

Well, Yuzu encouraged the whole CWW audience to sing Happy Birthday for Javi in a public broadcast. I don't think that he asked Javi for permission before the show. So yeah... that much about Yuzu, birthdays and private decisions 

But that was for Javi who is not Japanese. He also did for David. Also not Japanese. He knows they celebrate birthdays, singing is normal for them and will welcome and enjoy it no matter what. I don't remember him ever doing it for a Japanese skater.

 

ETA: Also, they are co-workers, so technically, it could fit into the professional ritual.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily agree with this and I find the Japanese take a bit strange, too, especially with the exceptions, since I am a born and raised European, BUT it is what it is and I think, as fans of a Japanese skater, we should do our best to respect his Japanese culture

[shanshani]

Honestly, this is a lot of words spilled over something that at the end of the day cannot possibly be that big of a deal. The worst that could happen is that Yuzu may find it mildly uncomfortable (but probably not according to past Yuzu-and-birthday related experiences) but will understand that fans are just showing their support. There may be a few people from the looking-to-be-offended-by-anything-Yuzu-fans-do crowd, but those people will get offended at anything. It may be mildly embarrassing if Yuzu fans don't organize it well, but we can laugh about that. Idk, just feels like a lot of hand wringing over nothing much.

[KatjaThera]

Btw, from the previous explanations/arguments, if some other skater or coach started the singing, then it would be ok. So if you think you can convince any of them to do it for you, that'd be your way out lol ETA: This is NOT a serious suggestion. Please don't do that! (Actually, Valentina's comments make me wonder if the organizers themselves might not consider preparing something for Yuzu's birthday... they're obviously very aware of it. I thought it was actually really funny in Marseilles, because while he was in the KnC they mentioned it over the announcements, that it was his birthday, but I think they only did it in French and Yuzu was 100% oblivious.)

[Umebachi]

1 minute ago, shanshani said:

Honestly, this is a lot of words spilled over something that at the end of the day cannot possibly be that big of a deal. The worse that could happen is that Yuzu may find it mildly uncomfortable (but probably not according to past Yuzu-and-birthday related experiences) but will understand that fans are just showing their support. There may be a few people from the looking-to-be-offended-by-anything-Yuzu-fans-do crowd, but those people will get offended at anything. It may be mildly embarrassing if Yuzu fans don't organize it well, but we can laugh about that. Idk, just feels like a lot of hand wringing over nothing much.

 

Yes, it may seem to be a lot of navel gazing, but I think this discussion has been very helpful in bringing out the different personal and cultural perspectives.  I believe it is important and necessary that we articulate and share these feelings and learn to understand and tolerate differences, while still finding your own unique voice and ways of expressing gratitude.   There is no one "right" way but a multitude of pathways to nirvana.  The fact that Yuzu has so many people from different cultures and backgrounds fussing about such details makes me happy, because without being aware, you are all slowly becoming Japanese - exactly in the way we nitpick and worry over every little detail from every possible angle!   It is only through this obsessive attention to details that we improve and refine our craft - which is to be the best fanyu possible.   

 

[Henni147]

4 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

Btw, from the previous explanations/arguments, if some other skater or coach started the singing, then it would be ok. So if you think you can convince any of them to do it for you, that'd be your way out lol ETA: This is NOT a serious suggestion. Please don't do that! (Actually, Valentina's comments make me wonder if the organizers themselves might not consider preparing something for Yuzu's birthday... they're obviously very aware of it. I thought it was actually really funny in Marseilles, because while he was in the KnC they mentioned it over the announcements, that it was his birthday, but I think they only did it in French and Yuzu was 100% oblivious.)

 

Imagine ISU tweeting about Yuzu's BDay. What a shocker that would be 

[Paskud]

Pooh rain is bad. Singing is bad. What next?

Anyway, GPF organizers have already been contacted and will cooperate, so I can't wait.

[Neenah]

56 minutes ago, Paskud said:

Pooh rain is bad. Singing is bad. What next?

Anyway, GPF organizers have already been contacted and will cooperate, so I can't wait.

No fan said that pooh rain is bad. This is a different issue

[Saya]

As long as the singing doesn't happen during the competition, whether during the pooh rain immediately following his performance or when he's at the K&C, I am for it. Celebrating his birthday in the middle of a competition, when he would be either axiously anticipating the scores or (god forbid) feeling regretful about his performance isn't a good idea and I don't think that anyone (Yuzuru or his competitors) would enjoy it under such tense circumstances. Doing it after his practice is over or during the victory lap seems more sensible and less disruptive to  the formality of the event.

[KatjaThera]

1 hour ago, Paskud said:

Pooh rain is bad. Singing is bad. What next?

Anyway, GPF organizers have already been contacted and will cooperate, so I can't wait.

This is a very black and white way of seeing things. And, as @Neenah said, no fan ever said the Pooh rain is bad.

 

I explained why many Japanese are uncomfortable with the idea. @Umebachi who is Japanese born and raised, explained that she actually feels uncomfortable when sung Happy Birthday to and when people celebrate her birthday. Is it that hard to imagine that there is a chance that Yuzu, too, Japanese born and raised, might also feel uncomfortable? Is that a chance we really want to take? To make him uncomfortable as a birthday gift? If so, then it really becomes just our selfish wish imposed on him.

 

HE should be focus and we should choose to do things we know for sure he appreciates. He appreciates the Poohs and the banners and fans behaving and being respectful towards everyone. GPF organizers can speak for the competition maybe. But they cannot speak for Yuzu. And Yuzu himself won't ever say anything bad, because he's too kind and polite, but that doesn't mean he'll definitely be ok with it.

 

I, too, think the Japanese attitude is perhaps a bit much - especially seen through our Western perspective - but Yuzu IS Japanese. Maybe at times like this we should trust his Japanese fans to have a slightly better idea about what's likely to make him comfortable/uncomfortable... I, too, think, it shouldn't be this big an issue, but knowing now that there is a chance it might actually make him uncomfortable, I'm far less in favor of the idea. Or maybe only in a gala or victory lap context (and for victory lap, ONLY if it's HIS victory; if someone else wins and Yuzu's fans start singing to him, I think he'd probably want to dig a hole in the ice and hide in it with embarrassment), where he might be having enough fun to only be mildly embarrassed.

[TallyT]

11 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

This is a very black and white way of seeing things. And, as @Neenah said, no fan ever said the Pooh rain is bad.

 

I explained why many Japanese are uncomfortable with the idea. @Umebachi who is Japanese born and raised, explained that she actually feels uncomfortable when sung Happy Birthday to and when people celebrate her birthday. Is it that hard to imagine that there is a chance that Yuzu, too, Japanese born and raised, might also feel uncomfortable? Is that a chance we really want to take? To make him uncomfortable as a birthday gift? If so, then it really becomes just our selfish wish imposed on him.

 

 

 

On the other hand, it was Yuzu who organised a whole rink of people singing Happy Birthday to both Javi (COiNTU) and David Wilson....