General Yuzuru Chat

[Umebachi]

5 minutes ago, quadaxelwin said:

 

 

It will be great as long as he doesn't make recycling a reputation. There is only so much you can push the judges if you recycle a program for 3 seasons. 

 

I also think he should try new programs to increase his pcs as the judges might just be giving low pcs because recycled programs may become boring to them, less exciting. 

 

Yuzuru has commented before that if he has a great programme to work with, he finds it worth refining and working on it many times, - just like I would enjoy watching Baryshnikov dance to the same music over and over again or the same Peter Hall's Shakespeare play acted by different troupes.  Great pieces of art - music, dance, plays - are meant to be experienced multiple times. 

 

In my view, the notion of "recycling" as boring or lacking in imagination would only be valid for banal routines that offer no room for deeper interpretation.  

 

I expect Yuzuru will move on to new programmes when he feels it is right to do so, and not in order to win favours with certain group of judges.  

 

 

[KatjaThera]

In this day and age where instant gratification is the way to go and everyone wants everything done ASAP and available instantly, it's no surprise a lot of people complain about recycling and few understand the perfectionist approach of wanting to polish something until it is as close to one's ideal as possible. I'm a fan of a musician who did six versions of the same song, simply because that's where his artistic feel took him. Or a band who has been polishing an album for over 12 years now and it has yet to be announced to be released, so it might be a bit easier to accept for me. On top of that, I'm a firm believer that artists should do art for themselves first and foremost, and while an athlete, Yuzu is also an artist. If he wants to continue doing Otonal and Origin every single year of the rest of his life, then he should, no matter what fans, judges, haters and so on believe.

 

I'm not sure recycling is as big an issue with judges as people seem to think it is. I think someone did a score comparison and it wasn't very conclusive that judges cared very much. After listening to a gazillion songs, I'm not sure how much they even notice the music in itself anymore and like it was pointed out before, all the warhorses should be even more grating than Yuzu's recycled, but otherwise unique programs.

 

Let's not fall for the narrative that "of course Yuzu gets lower PCS than usual, because judges are sick of his recycling". IMO, that's just non-fans' way of easily justifying that as a correct decision. At ACI, he got lower PCS because the technical panel said he UR-ed like crazy, so the judges felt 3 URs + 2 SOs = a big mistake = docking PCS. It's obvious, if one looks closely enough. At SCI, he got a PCS record for nearly clean skates - but NOT 100% clean. Yuzu is, most of the time, judged fairly. The problem is always that others aren't. And I highly doubt Nathan's high PCS has much to do with judges loving his new programs! (Just like I doubt Alina's high PCS last year had much to do with that... I'm pretty sure she got high PCS on that SP, too and that 'music' was ear-bleedingly bad.)

 

Also, it's not like the programs haven't evolved at all. Otonal, admittedly, has the same layout, but that might change, once he gets it 100% clean. Origin has new elements and a lot of new details. He also has a different attitude. Yuzu is experimenting with a lot of things he probably wouldn't be able to experiment with if he weren't re-using the programs. I would love new programs, too, but after seeing both of these live and on TV again, I get why he did it and I think the results so far show he was correct. (Also, we got two new amazing programs over the Summer!) The season is long and Nathan's true push won't come until after Nationals, but I think a clean Yuzu with the dominating feel of now will still be undenyingly impressive. Might Nathan still win? Sure, but I very much doubt it'll be their music choices that will make the difference.

 

And lastly, I think it was 4A that he was talking about when he said it might take 3-4 years to perfect, but he also did say he wants to do 4A in Orign. To be honest, rather than implying he wants to do Origin until 4A is perfect, he was implying he's really aiming to do 4A now, when he's doing Origin. But Yuzu is Yuzu and he'll do what he feels is right and then do his hardest to force the judges to agree with him.

 

Oh and one more thing... we often accuse ISU of being a bunch of dinosaurs, but now we also think they're hip enough that they appreciate new, modern music? Personally, I doubt it.

[monchan]

I'm sure Yuzu is more confident and knows well about himself than anyone. It's just he's a perfectionist. If he feels the program is NOT complete according to his lofty ideal , he will work endlessly to achieve it before moving to next programs.

 

Viewers might be impatient as ppl always love to see smt new, there's no way he doesn't know that given how he seems to keep up with all things fans do. About judges, i believe yuzu knows more than fans how they work. So putting fans' wish aside, I would just believe in his calculation.

[Sombreuil]

I agree that judges don’t care about repeats - it’s media and fans that go on about recycling.  Selfishly I would have loved some new programmes but I take the view that he owes us nothing and will (and should) do whatever he thinks is best.  These two programmes had limited outings last season - no GPF, no nationals, no 4CC - due to injury and the effects of that injury and the lack of mileage was clear at Worlds.  If there was ever any doubt about his judgement the decision to reuse Chopin and Seimei was totally vindicated by the events of the last Olympic season.

 

I also agree that judges don’t really seem to care about the music at all.  If they did warhorses wouldn’t work and  terrible music cuts and poor music choices would have an adverse effect,  which they clearly don’t.

[quadaxelwin]

39 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

In this day and age where instant gratification is the way to go and everyone wants everything done ASAP and available instantly, it's no surprise a lot of people complain about recycling and few understand the perfectionist approach of wanting to polish something until it is as close to one's ideal as possible. I'm a fan of a musician who did six versions of the same song, simply because that's where his artistic feel took him. Or a band who has been polishing an album for over 12 years now and it has yet to be announced to be released, so it might be a bit easier to accept for me. On top of that, I'm a firm believer that artists should do art for themselves first and foremost, and while an athlete, Yuzu is also an artist. If he wants to continue doing Otonal and Origin every single year of the rest of his life, then he should, no matter what fans, judges, haters and so on believe.

 

I'm not sure recycling is as big an issue with judges as people seem to think it is. I think someone did a score comparison and it wasn't very conclusive that judges cared very much. After listening to a gazillion songs, I'm not sure how much they even notice the music in itself anymore and like it was pointed out before, all the warhorses should be even more grating than Yuzu's recycled, but otherwise unique programs.

 

Let's not fall for the narrative that "of course Yuzu gets lower PCS than usual, because judges are sick of his recycling". IMO, that's just non-fans' way of easily justifying that as a correct decision. At ACI, he got lower PCS because the technical panel said he UR-ed like crazy, so the judges felt 3 URs + 2 SOs = a big mistake = docking PCS. It's obvious, if one looks closely enough. At SCI, he got a PCS record for nearly clean skates - but NOT 100% clean. Yuzu is, most of the time, judged fairly. The problem is always that others aren't. And I highly doubt Nathan's high PCS has much to do with judges loving his new programs! (Just like I doubt Alina's high PCS last year had much to do with that... I'm pretty sure she got high PCS on that SP, too and that 'music' was ear-bleedingly bad.)

 

Also, it's not like the programs haven't evolved at all. Otonal, admittedly, has the same layout, but that might change, once he gets it 100% clean. Origin has new elements and a lot of new details. He also has a different attitude. Yuzu is experimenting with a lot of things he probably wouldn't be able to experiment with if he weren't re-using the programs. I would love new programs, too, but after seeing both of these live and on TV again, I get why he did it and I think the results so far show he was correct. (Also, we got two new amazing programs over the Summer!) The season is long and Nathan's true push won't come until after Nationals, but I think a clean Yuzu with the dominating feel of now will still be undenyingly impressive. Might Nathan still win? Sure, but I very much doubt it'll be their music choices that will make the difference.

 

And lastly, I think it was 4A that he was talking about when he said it might take 3-4 years to perfect, but he also did say he wants to do 4A in Orign. To be honest, rather than implying he wants to do Origin until 4A is perfect, he was implying he's really aiming to do 4A now, when he's doing Origin. But Yuzu is Yuzu and he'll do what he feels is right and then do his hardest to force the judges to agree with him.

 

Oh and one more thing... we often accuse ISU of being a bunch of dinosaurs, but now we also think they're hip enough that they appreciate new, modern music? Personally, I doubt it.

 

 

 

I used to think Yuzu recycled his programs until he got a clean performance from each one of them. But I was wrong with 3 cases;

 

1 - Chopin = he already got a clean version from the first season he used it, but recycled it 3 times

 

2 - Seimei = he already got a clean version from the first season he used it, but recycled it

 

3 - Let's go Crazy = he never got a clean version, but he didn't recycle it (this is the only song I would have been okay if he recycled it)

 

 

 

So, I think the motivation for him to recycle songs is more so because of something else than wanting to skate a clean program of each. Whatever "perfecting" a program is to him, I don't think it's leaving a clean performance of the music, but something else that we don't know about.

 

This means that even if he skates both origin and otonal with a perfect clean performance, he might recycle them again next year. Who knows why he recycles his programs?  

[caterpillar]

51 minutes ago, quadaxelwin said:

 

 

 

I used to think Yuzu recycled his programs until he got a clean performance from each one of them. But I was wrong with 3 cases;

 

1 - Chopin = he already got a clean version from the first season he used it, but recycled it 3 times

 

2 - Seimei = he already got a clean version from the first season he used it, but recycled it

 

3 - Let's go Crazy = he never got a clean version, but he didn't recycle it (this is the only song I would have been okay if he recycled it)

 

 

 

So, I think the motivation for him to recycle songs is more so because of something else than wanting to skate a clean program of each. Whatever "perfecting" a program is to him, I don't think it's leaving a clean performance of the music, but something else that we don't know about.

 

This means that even if he skates both origin and otonal with a perfect clean performance, he might recycle them again next year. Who knows why he recycles his programs?  

 

While this is true, if I recall correctly Yuzu originally wanted to recycle Let’s go Crazy for the Olympic season for this reason, but was advised to choose Chopin instead. So I actually think all three of these instances can be explained with the fact that it was the Olympics, and Yuzu wanted these significant programs for that season.

[quadaxelwin]

30 minutes ago, caterpillar said:

 

While this is true, if I recall correctly Yuzu originally wanted to recycle Let’s go Crazy for the Olympic season for this reason, but was advised to choose Chopin instead. So I actually think all three of these instances can be explained with the fact that it was the Olympics, and Yuzu wanted these significant programs for that season.

 

 

Where did you get this info from? Interview link please  

 

I've never heard he wanted to recycle LGC before

[mercedes]

Not sure we have seen this 

 

[Vulnavia]

1 hour ago, KatjaThera said:

On top of that, I'm a firm believer that artists should do art for themselves first and foremost, and while an athlete, Yuzu is also an artist. If he wants to continue doing Otonal and Origin every single year of the rest of his life, then he should, no matter what fans, judges, haters and so on believe.

 

Sure, he should do whatever he wants, he doesn't owe anybody anything at this point. But at the end of the day, figure skating is a highly political sport where narratives matter and can affect scoring. And right now, the narrative from the pro-Nathan camp is that he has this amazing, unique, modern artistry with diverse and exciting music choices. I don't think that narrative reflects reality at all, but it's out there and being used to justify Nathan's inflated PCS. So while I don't think Yuzu's recycling is an issue this season, if he were to recycle one or both of these programs for a third time he'd be adding fuel to the narrative that Nathan and other skaters are making more interesting choices artistically, and while I don't think it would cause his PCS to drop dramatically or anything, it would just be one more challenge he'd have to deal with. 

[monchan]

12 minutes ago, quadaxelwin said:

 

 

Where did you get this info from? Interview link please  

 

I've never heard he wanted to recycle LGC before

Yeah he talked about it. I rmb reading that interview in the translation section here long ago, not sure which one thou.

 

But at 15-16 season, after breaking 3 wr, he also said he would love to use these 2 programs (chopin and seimei) for olympics.

 

The reason for him to recycle Origin is more than a clean program. He plans to include 4A, and various expressions that he thinks is the 'ideal' image of Origin. I mean, except he actually put it down, who can know what that ideal image looks like. I supposed that's artist disease, u never get their vision until they actually do it lol.

[WinForPooh]

New theory: all the Nessie training is elongating his neck like Nessie's.

 

 

[KatjaThera]

There was that Ajinomoto CM, with the words that were often attributed to him. I'm not sure they came from him or were just scripted for the CM, but I'm sure he believes in them, no matter the origin:

 

 

As a rough translation: "If/when you/I can't do it, try/practice until you/I can. If/when you/I become able to do it, try/practice until you/I can do it perfectly. If/when you/I become able to do it perfectly, try/practice until you can do it perfectly over and over again." (If/when, because technically it's 'if', but in English 'when' works as well. You/I because Japanese doesn't use pronouns and it can be interpreted as either him talking about himself as well as a general 'you'. And try/practice because in Japanese it's simply 'do' and can apply to anything, but in English it doesn't make as much sense, especially in the first sentence.)

 

The last part is my point, though. Just because he did it cleanly once or even twice, it's not enough. He wants to be able to do it cleanly over and over again. And both Chopin and Seimei and Origin even Otonal, though a bit less so, have changed technically with each repetition. Layout changes, new elements, more complex transitions or spins or whatever, it's not like he repeated them identically. Even over a whole season, Yuzu's programs tend to change and grow more complex and impressive from their first outing (while other skaters' programs tend to get simpler).

[quadaxelwin]

Anyone know if there are any interviews where Yuzu talks about Yuzu's mum's interest in figure skating before she sent Yuzu and his sister to figure skating lessons? A Japanese fan told me on twitter that Yuzu's mum was a "Suke Ota" even before Yuzu and his sister received FS lessons, which translates to figure skating stan, but I don't ever recall Yuzu saying this....

 

 

I thought Yuzu and his sister received fs lessons, because it was right after Nagano winter olympics, and because they saw figure skating olympics on tv or something and randomly wanted to try figure skating?

Or because there was a figure skating rink close by. 

[yuzupon]

When Yuzu land the 4A, no body in the world would care if he does it while skating to the best classical music ever written (whatever that is) or to the 'mana mana' song.

[shanshani]

16 minutes ago, yuzupon said:

When Yuzu land the 4A, no body in the world would care if he does it while skating to the best classical music ever written (whatever that is) or to the 'mana mana' song.

don't say such cursed things or else we'll see Brendan Kerry land the world's first 4A