General Yuzuru Chat

[Katt]

I'm not surprise if he reuse both Otonal and Origin, but not surprise about new program as well. In April 2017, he said he's open for ideas about new programs for Olys season, and we know how it turn out . I still remember how the whole fandom meltdown when he skated Chopin 3.0 at Faoi 

 

Its only 5 weeks until ACI. 

[Veveco]

T*L would be a lot more believable if they hadn't been all "you know that hanyu fans *actually* believe that the 4A will happen?" just a few months ago. Now we are supposed to buy that they have info about quints? They do sometimes have insight from their contacts - e.g. the Gogolev case - but when it comes to Yuzu I'm sure they're basically extrapolating from rumors. Quints aside, everything else has been part of the rumor mill for a while.

 

Anyway, new program or not, 4A or not, 4Lz/4F or not, I'm just grateful that Yuzu is still skating and that we get a chance to see him live this season 

[river]

Quints?

 

Also, a friend of a friend's daughter did a summer training camp at TCC. She got to skate with Yuzu and took a selfie with him. I don't know that I've ever been this jealous of a kid before!

[SparkleSalad]

 

 

[Henni147]

15 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

Because I just had my Ice Jewels handy (had it with me at work on Friday, hoping I'd finally have time to read, but nope), I think I might have found the part that hints at recycling, so I typed it up:

Unless my Japanese has gotten worse, they ask him about parts he likes, so he says every movement feels necessary for that sound and for the program as a whole. Then he says that for both of them he still wants (present, not past) to change stuff, add/remove movements, choreo, that he wants to perform it like he does when not doing any jumps, but he's far from achieving that. Which does seem to hint at unfinished business.

 

Now I'm really curious how Otonal and Origin look like without jumps at the moment...   

[micaelis]

2 hours ago, fyere0 said:

He's THINKING ABOUT THINGS?

I'm thinking he's thinking about 'Where do I go from here?'  I think this season is the critical one when the decision is made to go to Beijing or not.  If he has an extremely good season, meaning going gold at every competition I actually think that might be when he retires.  It all depends on how hard he had to work to get all those wins.  If they came easily, judging by his margins at each competition, he'll hang on through Beijing.  If every one has been a struggle, he'll announce his retirement.  If he has a season with mixed results, but one in which those wins he has came easily (again judging by winning margins) he'll go to Beijing.  If he had to struggle even for this mixed season, he'll retire.  One thing I'm fairly confident is that he'll not announce his retirement (except for a very bad injury) at the end of the season just before the Olympic season.  That would seem to be too much of an admission of inadequacy.  That's not in Yuzu's nature.  So he's thinking about things knowing that this season will decide whether he continues to Beijing or not.

[makebelieveup]

1 hour ago, micaelis said:

I'm thinking he's thinking about 'Where do I go from here?'  I think this season is the critical one when the decision is made to go to Beijing or not.  If he has an extremely good season, meaning going gold at every competition I actually think that might be when he retires.  It all depends on how hard he had to work to get all those wins.  If they came easily, judging by his margins at each competition, he'll hang on through Beijing.  If every one has been a struggle, he'll announce his retirement.  If he has a season with mixed results, but one in which those wins he has came easily (again judging by winning margins) he'll go to Beijing.  If he had to struggle even for this mixed season, he'll retire.  One thing I'm fairly confident is that he'll not announce his retirement (except for a very bad injury) at the end of the season just before the Olympic season.  That would seem to be too much of an admission of inadequacy.  That's not in Yuzu's nature.  So he's thinking about things knowing that this season will decide whether he continues to Beijing or not.

 I know it had never come easy for Yuzu and even when he had a good winning margin, it was purely by his own effort (underscored most of the time, though). but this season it will be really extra tough. as negative it sounds, the bold is my prediction. But what im afraid is even if all of his competition is a struggle he will still continue. I wonder if he really wants to end his career that way. What you say all sounds logical to me, but at the same time, Yuzu is super unpredictable. 

[KatjaThera]

I'm actually not that pessimistic. I believe that if Yuzu manages to gain all the technical advantages he aims for and polish everything to his standards, I still don't think anyone can touch him. And that's not just blind belief. Yes, Nathan did not bring his full arsenal to Saitama and he gets candy and even higher GOE than Yuzu these days. But what Nathan did not have in Saitama was 4S and 4Lo, IIRC. Both of those aren't really worth that many points. Yuzu didn't have 4Lz and 4F, even leaving aside 4A. And his 4Lo wasn't great and the 4S badly betrayed him both times. And the difference between them was still just 20 points. And we know most of those would have been made up by a clean Otonal. So, a clean possibly underscored Yuzu with a clean and overscored Nathan are about the same level. And that's a Nathan with 4Lz, 4T and 4F and a Yuzu with 4Lo, 4S and 4T. If Yuzu adds 4F and 4Lz and Nathan brings back 4Lo and 4S, assuming they still hold back Yuzu's GOE, they'd probably still be similar-ish. Truth is, they can't lowball Yuzu TOO much, especially if he's clean. So a clean Yuzu should still get at least +3 GOE on any jump. But Yuzu also plans to bring 4A and even if it's not as big BV wise as it used to be, it's still an extra quad. On top of that, Yuzu has clean 3As and he will work on everything else, too. And I also think that, like with the Olympics, if he starts his program with clean jumps, the judges will be more willing to run with him. Politics is all good, but judges are still human and I think they'd enjoy being part of a 'historical' performance. A clean 4A for Yuzu would be a great opening to incredible scores. I think they would give it to him. It's 4A after all.

 

The bigger question, IMO, is how long his body will hold up and whether he'll manage to achieve these ideal levels of technicality and performance before his body gives up. I think Yuzu will only call it quits when he will know that he cannot physically keep up anymore. Until then, he'll keep trying, despite any hardships. I guess it is also possible he might at some point conclude that it's not worth it anymore. But that seems out of character for me, IMO. I think it's far more likely he'll continue until he concludes he physically no longer has the ability to win anymore.

[SparkleSalad]

“I’m strong when being backed into a corner. That is the ideal opportunity for me to grow, and I love it more than anything.“

 

[madraykin]

23 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

I'm actually not that pessimistic. I believe that if Yuzu manages to gain all the technical advantages he aims for and polish everything to his standards, I still don't think anyone can touch him. And that's not just blind belief. Yes, Nathan did not bring his full arsenal to Saitama and he gets candy and even higher GOE than Yuzu these days. But what Nathan did not have in Saitama was 4S and 4Lo, IIRC. Both of those aren't really worth that many points. Yuzu didn't have 4Lz and 4F, even leaving aside 4A. And his 4Lo wasn't great and the 4S badly betrayed him both times. And the difference between them was still just 20 points. And we know most of those would have been made up by a clean Otonal. So, a clean possibly underscored Yuzu with a clean and overscored Nathan are about the same level. And that's a Nathan with 4Lz, 4T and 4F and a Yuzu with 4Lo, 4S and 4T. If Yuzu adds 4F and 4Lz and Nathan brings back 4Lo and 4S, assuming they still hold back Yuzu's GOE, they'd probably still be similar-ish. Truth is, they can't lowball Yuzu TOO much, especially if he's clean. So a clean Yuzu should still get at least +3 GOE on any jump. But Yuzu also plans to bring 4A and even if it's not as big BV wise as it used to be, it's still an extra quad. On top of that, Yuzu has clean 3As and he will work on everything else, too. And I also think that, like with the Olympics, if he starts his program with clean jumps, the judges will be more willing to run with him. Politics is all good, but judges are still human and I think they'd enjoy being part of a 'historical' performance. A clean 4A for Yuzu would be a great opening to incredible scores. I think they would give it to him. It's 4A after all.

 

The bigger question, IMO, is how long his body will hold up and whether he'll manage to achieve these ideal levels of technicality and performance before his body gives up. I think Yuzu will only call it quits when he will know that he cannot physically keep up anymore. Until then, he'll keep trying, despite any hardships. I guess it is also possible he might at some point conclude that it's not worth it anymore. But that seems out of character for me, IMO. I think it's far more likely he'll continue until he concludes he physically no longer has the ability to win anymore.

Honestly I think the only way Nathan can get a big BV boost next year is if he can do 5 quads in the FS - and Yuzu (and Brian et al) must be aware of that too and wondering if he can.

 

Anything else Nathan does to his tech is going to be fiddling around for 1 or 2 extra points here and there (which can add up obviously); and (though we don't know if it's true or mind games) Raf has said that he thinks it will be difficult to introduce anything new whilst Nathan is away at Yale.

 

Yuzu has much bigger potential gains - so if he can make some of them and skate clean I think he has a good chance of coming out on top.

[KatjaThera]

11 minutes ago, madraykin said:

Honestly I think the only way Nathan can get a big BV boost next year is if he can do 5 quads in the FS - and Yuzu (and Brian et al) must be aware of that too and wondering if he can.

 

Anything else Nathan does to his tech is going to be fiddling around for 1 or 2 extra points here and there (which can add up obviously); and (though we don't know if it's true or mind games) Raf has said that he thinks it will be difficult to introduce anything new whilst Nathan is away at Yale.

 

Yuzu has much bigger potential gains - so if he can make some of them and skate clean I think he has a good chance of coming out on top.

Exactly. I'm not that familiar with what Raf has said, but my impression ever since Worlds is that Nathan is very close to maxing out. They've pumped up his PCS to the point that even if he works on artistry, there's not much more he can win there. And he's almost maxed out technically, too. Which, IMO is very stupid, considering how early in career he is. The only things he can do to improve on this is quad-quad combinations or quints, really...

 

Meanwhile, Yuzu can, potentially, get a big BV boost. Of course, it won't be easy to go clean with all the stuff he wants to do, but if anyone can do it, it's him and if he manages it all, it will be beyond glorious.

[SparkleSalad]

How many times have we all felt so miserable and defeated and scared of the r word only for Yuzu to come back with “I’m going to land x y z and win everything”? I’ve stopped worrying about his motivation to continue because he’s obviously mentally indestructible and trying to understand his brain is just a waste of time for us mortals. Everything hinges on that precious ankle but I bet he still believes skaters peak at 30.

 

Anyway, Yuzu has always done something incredible the competition after being beaten by Nathan and this time the kuyashii is 9000 and his 4lz is back and he’s fixed that terrifying axis. 

[madraykin]

Just now, KatjaThera said:

Exactly. I'm not that familiar with what Raf has said, but my impression ever since Worlds is that Nathan is very close to maxing out. They've pumped up his PCS to the point that even if he works on artistry, there's not much more he can win there. And he's almost maxed out technically, too. Which, IMO is very stupid, considering how early in career he is. The only things he can do to improve on this is quad-quad combinations or quints, really...

 

Meanwhile, Yuzu can, potentially, get a big BV boost. Of course, it won't be easy to go clean with all the stuff he wants to do, but if anyone can do it, it's him and if he manages it all, it will be beyond glorious.

Yup, I've been fiddling around with Nathan's short (https://skatingscores.com/bv/ if anyone else wants to play) and I think the only thing he can really do is bring back the 4Lz+3T as his combo and do the 4F as his solo jump - if he does that and keeps the combo in the second half he can get a whole 1.7 points extra BV and I can't see that he can do anything more. (assuming that he's never going to try a +3Lo on the grounds that a) they're very rare in mens and b) he has a history of hip problems).

 

Yuzu on the other hand could get an extra 1.8 points 'just' by changing the 4S to a 4Lz.

[makebelieveup]

I think I will be more optimistic until I see that Yuzu can land 4 to 5 quads clean again this season. I dont want to think he will land 4flip to 4a just because he says he will challenge them. however, what he did at FaOi really encouraged me to believe he still has the fire. I also am just glad that despite losing the world title last season his spirit was never defeated. Yuzu I wish you healthy and happiness and realize all of your goals even tho that means my hair will fall faster than Brian's

 

re Nathan: oh I dont think his team is stupid, raf is esp strategic from what I can tell. I think he hasnt maxed his scores at all. He can do more number of quads, add an underrotated quint? GOE is contingent upon BV now so as long as his bv is the highest, his goe will be the highest. his pcs hasnt been maxed out. those points add up a lot. Nathan has dropped the number of quads over the seasons but he still scored higher because he is now graded on the same level as yuzu. also means he doesnt need to do as much to win against yuzu anymore (not like what he did in the past was but hopefully you know what i mean). With the way judges score him and how much the system is updated in favor of certain skaters, i wont be surprised if he is already the one to beat this 19/20 season. he hasnt revealed alot about his plan so we wont know what kind of layout he is up to. he's a consistent lander and is known to do enough to win so i wouldnt underestimate his international ceiling scores this season. who knows, maybe we'll see his nats scores by skate america. and if he does 5 or 6 quads now like how he did 17/18 even if he didnt do anything differently, he will put up an unbelievable score. its easier to feel inflation when we're in the season after all

 

and if all of my expectations and fesr turn out to be wrong i will be more than happy, though. 

[madraykin]

19 minutes ago, makebelieveup said:

[...] He can do more number of quads, add an underrotated quint?[...]

Ok, I know everyone keeps talking about quints, but at the moment they are worth 0 points. Best case is it gets called as a quad and you probably get a +REP so it's just not worth it.

 

The time to start talking about adding them to programs is when the ISU actually gives them a value.

 

And if Yuzu can get just one more quad (or get back the lutz) then they're pretty much even on number of quads too (Yes, Nathan has technically landed one more in competition but we haven't seen the loop from him in ages.) 

 

(ETA: Normally I'm a huge pessimist so I don't know where all this optimism is coming from, but I'm just gonna roll with it for now...)