General Yuzuru Chat

[shanshani]

Sidestepping most of the scoring arguments here...

 

I do want to emphasize the real xmonster's point that Yuzuru could absolutely have won if he had landed his 4Ss well. None of this 'Yuzu couldn't beat Nathan's skate nonsense', he absolutely could have. It would have required a level of cleanliness that was fairly unlikely given the state of his ankle and lost training time, but it's perfectly mathematically possible--and, I would argue, that even if Yuzu *had landed* both of those jumps well it still wouldn't have been Yuzuru at his best because a lot of the other jump landings were tight as well. 

 

Anyway, looking at it from a different perspective, the fact that Yuzu was taken out for the better of two seasons, came back not fully healed, and was still only beaten one skater who skated his best, is still an amazing accomplishment. Imagine if Shoma or Nathan or anyone else had been unable to skate for most of the past 2 seasons and skated this competition injured--would they be fairing nearly as well? 

[kaeryth]

 

[Old Cat Lady]

7 hours ago, airi said:

Personally, I think he is aware of everything that goes on - I don't think he actually doubts he is a much better skater than Nathan - he knows too much about figure skating, for one. But he also knows (more than ever now), than the judges don't really care about that difference and this is why he wants to "catch up" - btw he actually said he will become a skater that anyone else won't be able catch up to. He shouldn't actually have to do this if the judging was more fair, but he knows how it is and winning over it should be his next victory. And next to winning, Yuzuru loves a challenge. I think he's actually excited about this, even if dissaponted with his result at Saitama. I believe he will achieve his next goal. The only doubt will always be his health. But to some extent that applies to everyone.

 

I get that impression too just based on past patterns.  Normally, when he talks about skaters, he talks about some aspect of their skating that he admires.  However, when asked about Nathan, Yuzu merely said that his Nationals skate was "impressive from a numbers perspective".  I think Yuzu respects Nathan as a competitor but doesn't actually like his skating.  I can't recall him saying anything positive about Nathan's actual skating.  Even when it comes to jumping, he references Boyang.

 

 

50 minutes ago, shanshani said:

 

I do want to emphasize the real xmonster's point that Yuzuru could absolutely have won if he had landed his 4Ss well. None of this 'Yuzu couldn't beat Nathan's skate nonsense', he absolutely could have. It would have required a level of cleanliness that was fairly unlikely given the state of his ankle and lost training time, but it's perfectly mathematically possible--and, I would argue, that even if Yuzu *had landed* both of those jumps well it still wouldn't have been Yuzuru at his best because a lot of the other jump landings were tight as well. 

 

I noticed that immediately as well.  Was actually about to start a thread about strategy for next year and point out that it was literally those 2 mistakes that cost him this title.  He definitely could have won against clean Nathan, inflated scores and all, if he just landed those 2 elements, and that's with most of his other elements not being to his usual quality either. That big gap is deceiving; people can't seem to grasp how much the new system crucifies you for any mistake, especially since it is a compounded punishment with pcs penalties built in (that realistically only hurt 3 or 4 skaters )

 

That being said, I think airi is right.  While a clean Hanyu could have won, even though his other elements were lower quality than usual, the judges have unfairly forced the GOE/PCS gap to close and if Yuzu wants to continue competing, he needs to move forward with that in mind, and strategize around it.

[SuperMin]

I’m not sure what to make of this expression. 😂 

 

[WinForPooh]

You know what I'm completely kuyashii about though? All the Seimei StSq3s. Oh flat edges and missing choctaws don't matter now for level 4s? That's what I'm frustrated about, of all things. 

[shanshani]

6 minutes ago, Old Cat Lady said:

 

I get that impression too just based on past patterns.  Normally, when he talks about skaters, he talks about some aspect of their skating that he admires.  However, when asked about Nathan, Yuzu merely said that his Nationals skate was "impressive from a numbers perspective".  I think Yuzu respects Nathan as a competitor but doesn't actually like his skating.  I can't recall him saying anything positive about Nathan's actual skating.  Even when it comes to jumping, he references Boyang.

 

 

 

I noticed that immediately as well.  Was actually about to start a thread about strategy for next year and point out that it was literally those 2 mistakes that cost him this title.  He definitely could have won against clean Nathan, inflated scores and all, if he just landed those 2 elements, and that's with most of his other elements not being to his usual quality either. That big gap is deceiving; people can't seem to grasp how much the new system crucifies you for any mistake, especially since it is a compounded punishment with pcs penalties built in (that realistically only hurt 3 or 4 skaters )

 

That being said, I think airi is right.  While a clean Hanyu could have won, even though his other elements were lower quality than usual, the judges have unfairly forced the GOE/PCS gap to close and if Yuzu wants to continue competing, he needs to move forward with that in mind, and strategize around it.

Yuzu does seem to think Nathan is 'cool', whatever that means  maybe he admires the personality Nathan projects?

 

I agree that Yuzu does have to up his BV strategically, not just because of judging but because even if he can beat Nathan by being foot-perfect, being foot-perfect is a pretty high bar, even for Yuzu. It would be better psychologically to have room for a mistake. But there's the ankle--ugh I wish it could somehow get better by magic.

[Paskud]

6 minutes ago, WinForPooh said:

You know what I'm completely kuyashii about though? All the Seimei StSq3s. Oh flat edges and missing choctaws don't matter now for level 4s? That's what I'm frustrated about, of all things. 

Remember all Origin Stsq3s.

[rockstaryuzu]

2 hours ago, Tee said:

 

When you see all 4 of them together like that, you can definitely see that he was having a harder time at Worlds - he visibly slows down towards the end of the program compared to the others. Probably because of the ice? 

[Whee1000]

Useless speculation but I’m going to do it anyway: I wonder if he misses having an official team senpai like reliable Mr Mura around. Kind of how Shoma misses Yuzu. I know Shoma likes the reduced attention he gets when Yuzu is around, but there’s a comfort when someone higher ranked than you is around because you think, “oh they will handle it/ are better prepared to deal with it.” 

 

i still think of Javi as a peer to Yuzu, 

[shanshani]

3 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

When you see all 4 of them together like that, you can definitely see that he was having a harder time at Worlds - he visibly slows down towards the end of the program compared to the others. Probably because of the ice? 

The fact that he pulled off what he did in spite of the injury is amazing I wish I had half his grit and determination. (NOT THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE EMULATING HIM. IT'S OKAY TO LET YOUR INJURIES HEAL, PEOPLE. *cough* Shoma *cough*)

[WinForPooh]

Just now, shanshani said:

The fact that he pulled off what he did in spite of the injury is amazing I wish I had half his grit and determination. (NOT THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE EMULATING HIM. IT'S OKAY TO LET YOUR INJURIES HEAL, PEOPLE. *cough* Shoma *cough*)

 

It's so funny because Yuzuru was off there doing all that and I was here all last week procrastinating every responsibility I have, I mean that is the opposite of what a good fanyu should do lol

[WinForPooh]

9 minutes ago, Paskud said:

Remember all Origin Stsq3s.

 

I'm less frustrated about that because Origin never got the mileage to be absolutely perfect, while Seimei did, and the teeniest little hoppiness (like just the hint of a hop) was so strictly punished! 

[rockstaryuzu]

2 hours ago, Yuzurella said:

If Yuzu himself can continue loving this sport enough and being hopeful enough to stay, you should be able to do the same without giving way to bitterness - that, I think, is the least of what we can do for him. After all, if, as Yuzu said, he is coming home, we’d need to be there to warmly welcome him back, right?      

Okaeri. Well said indeed.  

 

 

[WinForPooh]

Anyway. The only man out there who can even come close to Yuzu's score in TR right now is Kevin Aymoz, and that's including Jason whose FS was emptier than usual and he has longer setups. Anybody who disagrees with me on that can jolly well fight me. It's controversial, apparently, to say self-evident truths about quality of skating, but even complete numpties can count transitions. 

[rockstaryuzu]

32 minutes ago, Old Cat Lady said:

people can't seem to grasp how much the new system crucifies you for any mistake

It's so obvious though. Take Jason for example. His failed 4S and his other jump errors dropped him from 3rd in the SP to 14th in the FS. That would never have happened under past scoring systems.