General Yuzuru Chat

[Sombreuil]

57 minutes ago, ballaed said:

everyone makes mistakes, let's not forget these commentators have to remember all the details about all the skaters and are basically talking for 6 hours straight knowing that they're on live TV. I know it's their job but can anyone here honestly say they've never made a mistake at work before? 

Mistakes are a part of life - if it were one or two fair enough.  But there are loads of them and often about the top ten. If I made as many mistakes and did as little research as these people do I would have been out of a job years ago.  I am someone who occasionally watches with non skating fans, namely my family.  It is extremely annoying to have to add them taking the commentators word for it to all their other odd conceptions and weird biases that annoy me.  The likes of Robin Cousins and Hanratty should be putting their non skating colleagues straight not joining in with them.

[Hydroblade]

4 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

might it not be good for us to have, somewhere on the planet, a thread dedicated to busting 'urban myths' about Yuzu? A place to address the lies and misconceptions, with arguments. A place where confused or misguided fans can be pointed to, where they can find out the truth about all those things. I think, if done properly, it could be a great place for fans to find facts, instead of lies. And it'd be better than trying to argue with antis on twitter and so on.

Idk how many people would agree with that info, since we're a Yuzu fansite and we would be accused of being biased No matter how objective we want to make the information. So i think it's a good idea but i'm not sure how effective it would be (i''m saying this as a member, not a staff member!)

7 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

as far as results go, one cannot possibly call him inconsistent. However, we all know he can be unpredictable as far as landing his quads goes.

the only reason why we are always on the verge of a breakdown when he's competing.

It's hard to think about him being off podium under normal circumstances, isn't that being consistent :P?

[ruruzest]

Spoiler

From my personal experience . When I first watched FS without any knowledge in tech stuffs , I found myself looking forwards commentaries to understand what was going on and I was very imprressed with the way the British uncles gushing about Yuzu ! So I’ll say commentators did make a difference in amateurs like me . Of course I did later on try to figure it out and completely fall into the orbit of Planet Hanyu 

 

 

[Yatagarasu]

19 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

No. The actual general public (as in, the man or woman on the street who never watched skating) don't know even that much about figure skating, and even if they happen to watch a competition, they're such casual watchers that they won't retain what the commentators say. The people who watch once and take an interest and do remember the comments will watch more and sooner or later form their own opinions anyway, regardless of what the commentators say.

 

As regards Brian's comment, I saw that in an interview I watched on YouTube, I can't remember which one.  He says specifically that when Yuzu came to them in 2012, that he needed to work towards more consistent control of his skating. 

 

Bear in mind, you're attacking me right now as if I had said that I think Yuzu is inconsistent. Instead, I was merely pointing out a specific instance where the comments that commentators make don't necessarily come out of nowhere.

 

General audiences do retain, as we've seen time and time again. They won't form their own opinions that differ to those of commentators if they are constantly being 'taught' by those commentators what is good and what is bad in specific ways. The only way they will form a different opinion is if they get interested about figure skating enough to learn about it and become more than a casual fan.

 

2012? We are talking about 2016/17 and 2017/18 but all right. One, it is not consistency as the one we're talking about here. Two, his results are consistent and while he isn't 100% consistent in his quads, not a single male skater is. This increases with the increase of variety of quads and he is not in any way less consistent than the rest of them. Not to mention that their talk about inconsistency has a very clear agenda. Or is it by accident they never once mentioned he was injured post Boston? Never mind the gravity of that injury. They do mention other skaters being injured - when that is official or not.

 

I'm not attacking you, just as much as nobody is bashing commentators. 

 

Quote

As for whether what they're saying is factually true or not...well, for example, Brian himself has commented that when Yuzu came to him, he was sometimes inconsistent. 

 

Since you were implying it is perhaps factually true that Yuzuru is inconsistent, I merely said I'll wait to see how, beyond this Brian Orser comment. 

 

Their job is to provide facts while they commentate, which they do not do, when it comes to BESP and Yuzuru Hanyu. They not only do not provide facts but they spin out into orbit occasionally with other comments. 

Nobody is bashing these people if they point out in which way their commentary is problematic. 

[KatjaThera]

6 minutes ago, Hydroblade said:

Idk how many people would agree with that info, since we're a Yuzu fansite and we would be accused of being biased No matter how objective we want to make the information. So i think it's a good idea but i'm not sure how effective it would be (i''m saying this as a member, not a staff member!)

the only reason why we are always on the verge of a breakdown when he's competing.

It's hard to think about him being off podium under normal circumstances, isn't that being consistent :P?

Well, the only alternative to that would be to never argue against the lies. I'm actually against arguing with antis because it's pointless. This would be more for the ones still innocent but swayed by the antis and for fans confused - for example, like Yata said, Yuzu fans who believe the 4T-3T at GPF'15 was UR.

 

And like I said, it depends on how you define consistency lol If consistency = results consistency, then yes, he's probably the most consistent in many years. But if consistency = doing many clean programs, then not so much. How many clean performances has he had since becoming Sochi, for starters? (Of course, then you have to define what clean means Just no falls, or no negative GOE? Or performing all elements as planned?) Either way, not that many. Anyway, like I said, I don't agree with this narrative, but I can see where they're coming from and what to point that out, in an attempt at objectivity (or maybe rather playing devil's advocate lol). Personally, I'm not sure I'd be as much of a fan if he was perfect all the time, anyway. It'd just get boring...

[meoima]

Commentators have a huge impact on the general audience. Where do you think the current "artistry narrative" of many skating fans come from? DICK BUTTON's commentary for many many decades. New skating fans lament that the old NA skating fans have this kind of certain biased view on skating.You know where to look at. Dick Button, who else. He did contribute much to the sport, but his comments came across as not so nice many many many times.

The guys at British Eurosport have not been professional, and this is what I want to point out. When I was small on tivi they show Russian broadcast of figure skating, so there was not much to understand. When I got the internet and started listening to British Eurosport, I relied on them a lot. Then you know... just years after years I realize they repeat the same mistake and same phrase for some certain circumstances, making the same mistakes over and over again. So now I am GLAD just to get No commentary or commentary of a language I do not understand.

I do not need the commentators to gush over the skaters. I only need them to give correct information and not some biased statement. 

[Hydroblade]

2 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

Personally, I'm not sure I'd be as much of a fan if he was perfect all the time, anyway. It'd just get boring...

Just now, meoima said:

Commentators have a huge impact on the general audience.

The general audience who still say "he falls a lot, why did he win".

I think that asking for objectivity is... hard. If you know about the sport you're bound to have a favourite or at least someone you are rooting for. But trying to bring down other competitors is BAD. I wouldn't mind if they openly gushed over someone else, but didn't feel the need to convince the audience that x or y skater is better with wrong info.

 

 

[Lunna]

9 минут назад, meoima сказал:

I do not need the commentators to gush over the skaters. I only need them to give correct information and not some biased statement. 

I don't need it either though sometimes it's nice to listen, especially if you know the person is really professional like when they invited Tracy for comments or it was nice to listen to TAT in PC (though she can be very biased). I'd gladly listen ID with professional comments cuz I still don't understand a thing in it - the problem is even athletes rarely have professional/interesting comments in ID.

[Pamigena]

1 hour ago, rockstaryuzu said:

Most of the commentators in this category , I've noticed, are not specialists in figure skating, but just sports reporters dragged in from other sports because the network needs somebody. 

 

Being incompetent or not sufficiently qualified for a job doesn't make you immune to criticism, though. It's maybe an explanation, but not an excuse. If my house collapses and it turns out that my contractor was actually not trained as a contractor but as a dentist, then I'm not gonna cut him slack because he lacked the necessary qualifications for the job.  

 

 

52 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

As for whether what they're saying is factually true or not...well, for example, Brian himself has commented that when Yuzu came to him, he was sometimes inconsistent. Sports commentators can hardly be faulted for repeating stuff that came from the coach's own mouth. 

 

Not every quote stays applicable for all eternity, and there's something called context. Imagine a commentator saying "Yuzuru Hanyu withdrew from NHK due to injury. His coach said that if the Olympics were tomorrow, he'd be ready". Both those things separately aren't wrong, but if you present them in this way, then they paint a misleading picture and people will draw the wrong conclusions.

 

 

24 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

No. The actual general public (as in, the man or woman on the street who never watched skating) don't know even that much about figure skating, and even if they happen to watch a competition, they're such casual watchers that they won't retain what the commentators say. The people who watch once and take an interest and do remember the comments will watch more and sooner or later form their own opinions anyway, regardless of what the commentators say.

 

But there's something between "person on the street who only watches every 4 years" and "super duper hardcore fan who knows the skaters' boot size". I'd consider myself more than a casual viewer, but there are many, many, many skaters who I don't follow very closely. When I watch a competition with commentary, then I can only call BS on the things that I know are wrong. But more often than not, I would have to rely on the commentators knowing what they're talking about, which, sadly, they often don't.

[Yatagarasu]

11 minutes ago, Hydroblade said:

The general audience who still say "he falls a lot, why did he win".

I think that asking for objectivity is... hard. If you know about the sport you're bound to have a favourite or at least someone you are rooting for. But trying to bring down other competitors is BAD. I wouldn't mind if they openly gushed over someone else, but didn't feel the need to convince the audience that x or y skater is better with wrong info.

 

I honestly do not care one whit if they gush about someone else. It's something that happens all the time, especially when it comes to national bias.

It is the other that bugs me and tbh, the worst for me had always been that they started that inconsistency story when he was coming back post-Boston but never once mentioned how injured he had been. Heck, during CoR 2017, NBC mentioned how Yuzuru had had knee trouble before and how that might have affected him. Meh. Of course, everything else too.

[Hydroblade]

1 minute ago, Yatagarasu said:

that inconsistency story when he was coming back post-Boston but never once mentioned how injured he had been.

[sallycinnamon]

19 minutes ago, meoima said:

Commentators have a huge impact on the general audience. Where do you think the current "artistry narrative" of many skating fans come from? DICK BUTTON's commentary for many many decades. New skating fans lament that the old NA skating fans have this kind of certain biased view on skating.You know where to look at. Dick Button, who else. He did contribute much to the sport, but his comments came across as not so nice many many many times.

The guys at British Eurosport have not been professional, and this is what I want to point out. When I was small on tivi they show Russian broadcast of figure skating, so there was not much to understand. When I got the internet and started listening to British Eurosport, I relied on them a lot. Then you know... just years after years I realize they repeat the same mistake and same phrase for some certain circumstances, making the same mistakes over and over again. So now I am GLAD just to get No commentary or commentary of a language I do not understand.

I do not need the commentators to gush over the skaters. I only need them to give correct information and not some biased statement. 

 

Commentators do have a huge impact, I agree with that. I won't even go into details how much damage was done in my country by Eurosport or other commentators over the past years and how this influenced the general opinion of fs fans here...

[ruruzest]

If Yuzu has ever left an impression of being “ inconsistent” it is because of his extremely packed and difficult and intricate transitions plus squads programs . Plus the way he goes all out to perform . Despite that Yuzu always podiums with the lowest as silver medalist . So in conclusion the “ inconsistent “ theory has a big hole in it. I’ll say Yuzu consistently podiums well in comp no matter how his condition is. He is THAT CONSISTENT ! 

[TallyT]

1 minute ago, ruruzest said:

 Despite that Yuzu always podiums with the lowest as silver medalist .

 

The rest of 'em would kill to be that inconsistent...

[Yatagarasu]

6 minutes ago, ruruzest said:

Despite that Yuzu always podiums with the lowest as silver medalist . 

 

That is seriously something. If we go back, he had one 4th post that CoC mess, then another season of 1st and 2nd places, then another, except for one 4th place again. 

It is only the season prior to that one that we find a mix of placings but that is 2011/12!

 

So since 2011/12, he has placed either 1st or 2nd in all his competitions, except twice. Six years! I know Plushenko has a better record, he had 7th straight years of mostly 1st places with a smattering of 2nd but he is considered the most consistent one in modern history. And his programs and Yuzuru's programs are quite different (it's simply how skating advanced, nothing against Plush, on the contrary). I am not sure many top skaters can approach Yuzuru's consistency.