General Yuzuru Chat

[ralucutzagy]

 

[micaelis]

8 hours ago, moonkat said:

 

Perhaps it would be easier to hold his leg, instead of boot then? 

I'm not sure there, although it would be possible since what is involved is pelvic flexibility, which we already know Yuzu has.  It's a matter of strength training in the thigh to raise the leg into the position required.  Ages ago I read an anecdote, (no names were given so it might be apocryphal) where a teen-aged lad involved in intense ballet training was razzed by some fellows at his high school, saying ballet was sissy stuff.  He calmly dared any of them to do what he was about to do.  He SLOWLY raised one leg in front of him, leg straight, to the point where he was in a full vertical split, then kissed his knee before SLOWLY lowering his leg.  According to the account I read he was never teased again.  He'd made his point.  The point here is that while one might have the genetically-inherited pelvis that allows one to do splits and ballet turnout, to raise and lower the leg in the matter described requires strength-training in the thigh muscles.  With thigh muscle development like that ballet student had, he would have been a killer in wrestling, particularly with the flexibility he obviously had also.  I think Yuzu would have the ability to grasp his leg rather than his skate but whether he had the muscle strength to do it, with the training necessary to do the vertical split, I would have to think he and his coaches opted for the 'easier' option, figuring that a male skater doing the Bielmann was enough of a statement.  I have said in other posts that if Yuzu were a couple inches taller, with his obvious talent for handling very dense and detailed choreography, he could be a world-class ballet-dancer.  The talent and the genetic ability is there, plus the requisite sensitivity to music.  It would simply be a matter of a different training regimen.  When all is said, however, Yuzu's ability to combine and balance the athletic with the aesthetic, and his willingness to adopt moves that are traditionally allocated to the ladies, is probably the major reason he's rated number one in the world.

[MrPudding]

[Xen]

1 hour ago, ralucutzagy said:

 

That's what worries me the most about a lot of the young skaters these days. I recall watching Nate at Nationals last year, and a commentator saying "He was injured, but rather than decreasing quads, he added more quads." One off-season and whoosh, everything but the 4A. Now, I would assume Nate and his team has been at it for a while, because I don't think you can go from 4T to everything but 4A in just 3-4 months. At least not competition ready. And even then, if you can't jump from most positions, that's why your transitions and steps before jumps suffer, that's why the landing isn't always stable-because the fundamentals of the jump are not that stable yet. 

[axelnojutsu]

1 hour ago, KatjaThera said:

I've actually been searching for the ice show thread recently, but couldn't find it anymore...  Could you link it here, so I can bookmark it, please?

I always search the planet for "consolidated" because somehow that word really stuck in my head 

[KatjaThera]

2 minutes ago, axelnojutsu said:

I always search the planet for "consolidated" because somehow that word really stuck in my head 

Thank you very much!

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

1 時間前, ralucutzagyさんが言いました:

 

 

In their defense, I'm thinking they don't have a choice if they want to be competitive, with Hanyu tearing down the previous landscape of men's fs and repainted it in his colors, and Jin kicking down the doors of the 4Z and dragging it repeatedly into competition. Also, I got a rather distinct vibe that ISU needed more top contenders in the field to "shake things up" in order to bring in more audiences, which is why they are getting way more PCS and GOEs than they truly deserve, which in turn is telling them to keep at it if they want to have any chance at all at being somewhere on top (while Mt. Hanyu, the big brother of tiny lil' Everest, is still very much an active volcano). Those that Fernandez and especially Hanyu were chasing weren't doing things in the field that required them to do the same way back when, which was how they could afford the time to grow more organically, something which I think all of us are truly grateful for.

 

I, for one, am not too upset by what's going on now, because the selfish part of me thinks that all of these are good for Hanyu and his mentality. It seems to have the reverse effect on Chan and Fernandez, though, since theirs is a different stance and mindset.

[Xen]

18 minutes ago, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

 

In their defense, I'm thinking they don't have a choice if they want to be competitive, with Hanyu tearing down the previous landscape of men's fs and repainted it in his colors, and Jin kicking down the doors of the 4Z and dragging it repeatedly into competition. Also, I got a rather distinct vibe that ISU needed more top contenders in the field to "shake things up" in order to bring in more audiences, which is why they are getting way more PCS and GOEs than they truly deserve, which in turn is telling them to keep at it if they want to have any chance at all at being somewhere on top (while Mt. Hanyu, the big brother of tiny lil' Everest, is still very much an active volcano). Those that Fernandez and especially Hanyu were chasing weren't doing things in the field that required them to do the same way back when, which was how they could afford the time to grow more organically, something which I think all of us are truly grateful for.

 

I for one, am not too upset by what's going on now, because the selfish part of me thinks that all of these are good for Hanyu and his mentality. It seems to have the reverse effect on Chan and Fernandez, though, since theirs is a different stance and mindset.

Considering that Yuzu had started trying 4Lz since 2014, I think he always had his own agenda of how much he wanted to push the technical boundary-something that I don't think is the case for either Chan or Javi. He might have thrown out the 4Lz in competition anyways, even without Jin or Nate, he would have brought it out sooner or later. Just that with Jin and Nate both doing 4Lz, being such a visual guy, Yuzu got a stronger image/inspiration that might have sped up his 4Lz acquisition. 

[KatjaThera]

21 minutes ago, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

 

In their defense, I'm thinking they don't have a choice if they want to be competitive, with Hanyu tearing down the previous landscape of men's fs and repainted it in his colors, and Jin kicking down the doors of the 4Z and dragging it repeatedly into competition. Also, I got a rather distinct vibe that ISU needed more top contenders in the field to "shake things up" in order to bring in more audiences, which is why they are getting way more PCS and GOEs than they truly deserve, which in turn is telling them to keep at it if they want to have any chance at all at being somewhere on top (while Mt. Hanyu, the big brother of tiny lil' Everest, is still very much an active volcano). Those that Fernandez and especially Hanyu were chasing weren't doing things in the field that required them to do the same way back when, which was how they could afford the time to grow more organically, something which I think all of us are truly grateful for.

 

I, for one, am not too upset by what's going on now, because the selfish part of me thinks that all of these are good for Hanyu and his mentality. It seems to have the reverse effect on Chan and Fernandez, though, since theirs is a different stance and mindset.

I think you're right, but I would add one more thing and that is that the others lacked Yuzuru's long-time planning and big picture seeing skills. Of course, we can't know how much of his development was really planned ahead, but he always aimed for Sochi and Pyeongchang and made choices along the way so as to be ready for those. I think that contributed to his being able to take it a bit more slowly.

 

For example, he didn't have to do quads in his first senior season, but worked hard over the Summer to get 4T. Then moved to Canada to get and stabilize 4S. He knew that without those, and since PCS takes time to develop, his chances of beating Chan - who had the highest PCS - were small. Of course, in Canada he found Brian who argued that improving PCS would also improve jump stability, and that brought him to a higher level from both points of view by Sochi, but he still wasn't at Patrick's level. Admittedly, the 4S didn't do him any good, but the 4T stability, plus the other jumps helped.

 

Bottom line is he'd known, from four years earlier, what he needed to do to have a chance at the Olympics. By comparison, others seem to be improvising as they go, hence the rush to get all the quads ASAP, as if they didn't know Oly happens every four years. (To be fair though, I haven't followed them, so I could be wrong and they have been preparing.)

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

I do wonder, though, what Hanyu would have done and subsequently become had there been someone like him in the field back when he was and up-and-comer. Or what Jin, Uno and Chen would be doing now if FS never had Hanyu. >_< Chan would probably have won his Oly gold and retired. And  Fernandez's success would be a huge question mark since it, as far as outside forces go, seems to be due to a combination of having Orser as his coach (and by extension TCC as a training ground), and Hanyu as both a training mate and rival. Not sure if the outcome for him would be the same if his recipe is missing one of those ingredients.

 

Hanyu himself, had he never gotten into fs, would probably still end up an athlete (between the boundless energy he's been said to have as a kid, his highly competitive and absolutely fearless nature, and Japan being a sport-crazy nation, it's highly unlikely he wouldn't have ended up as one anyway), stirring up sh*t in whatever sport he's turned out to do instead. I just can't imagine him to simply quietly exist. Guy just isn't the sort, fs or no fs. >_<

[Sayu93]

Slightly OT for the current discussion but I just found this in the zamboni break:

https://thefandometrics.tumblr.com/post/168016938524/tumblr2017-athletes

Yuzu is in 3rd^^

[Xen]

28 minutes ago, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

I do wonder, though, what Hanyu would have done and subsequently become had there been someone like him in the field back when he was and up-and-comer. Or what Jin, Uno and Chen would be doing now if FS never had Hanyu. >_<

I think Yuzu might actually be the same-maybe the quads will come out a bit faster, but you can't really get rid of musicality. He has fairly "extra" views on figure skating, so the final product might not be that different from what we have today. 

 

As for the second part. Boyang might be the same still-him and his team always struck me as very "my pace" and China never really pushed FS or any of the single's discipline that much. So he would be free to do as he wished. For Shoma, I think he would lean a bit more as an artistic skater, more SS and TR, not as huge a rush for quads. Actually I think in such a world, Shoma would be No. 1 right now. As for Nathan, maybe more artistry, but he'd still do the quads, just not pushing them out as fast, but he always came off to me as a more "technical" guy. 

[katonice]

Finally caught up with the thread YAAASSS!! Been reading for 4 hours straight lol.

 

Now how not to fall behind so much again lol! 

[WinForPooh]

2 hours ago, katonice said:

Finally caught up with the thread YAAASSS!! Been reading for 4 hours straight lol.

 

Now how not to fall behind so much again lol! 

Priorities.

[Aotoshiro]

5 hours ago, Xen said:

As for the second part. Boyang might be the same still-him and his team always struck me as very "my pace" and China never really pushed FS or any of the single's discipline that much. So he would be free to do as he wished. For Shoma, I think he would lean a bit more as an artistic skater, more SS and TR, not as huge a rush for quads. Actually I think in such a world, Shoma would be No. 1 right now. As for Nathan, maybe more artistry, but he'd still do the quads, just not pushing them out as fast, but he always came off to me as a more "technical" guy. 

So Shoma would be Patrick after rule change in 2010? Nathan then would be...Javier after his first year with Brian? _{sorry for simplyfying like that} And tbh, I still find Boyang to be the slower version of what Yuzu was in his pre-Sochi era (slower, as in, slower developing, I don't know about on ice stuff xD or maybe with different strong points? Yuzuru was the Axel+flexibility+splat on steps kid, while Boyang is the LUTZ+not getting level on steps+weirdly fitting A-spin kid to me?)

 

5 hours ago, katonice said:

Finally caught up with the thread YAAASSS!! Been reading for 4 hours straight lol.

 

Now how not to fall behind so much again lol! 

open Planet before checking the hour every morning  (if there is no/small news and explosion afterwards isn't very big, it's actually enough to keep with Gen Thread. Catching up on all others, tho...)