General Yuzuru Chat

[Murieleirum]

1 minute ago, Xen said:

No no, see what Angry Yuzu might do is take over and become the ISU president....and the problem is that what the ISU is doing is saying none of the current skaters are what they want.  Not Yuzu, not Javi, not Patrick, not Boyang, not Nathan and probably not even Shoma. Heck possibly not even Jason Brown. 

 

What would be amusing to see is if some of the guys, like PChan, Javi and Yuzu get pissed off enough that they actually try to enter the ISU as a vice pres or as a consultant or as a president even. That would seriously raise the profile of the ISU, possibly considering the sponsorships they have privately, could there even be more commercial sponsorships for figure skating as a whole? More grants for skaters? Regardless of what ISU feels, these skaters are loved by their feds, so what the ISU is doing seems to be in isolation of the feds.  But given that the ISU's recent move seems more like a reactive power grab, I doubt they'd even accept any of those 3 skaters as possible candidates. That is the sad part. 

 

Yuzuru has stated that he wants to always be inside figure skating world, after all. It wouldn't be that surprising now that I think about it. Patrick has always been very vocal as well, so it would be IC for him as well. Javi, I'm not sure. My money is on Patrick and Yuzu. For now. 

 

But if Isu doesn't have the support of the federations... are they really gonna be able to do this? What about politics? Are they throwing all the consent in the air to do... I don't even know how the fuck to call this bullshit? Lol, I'm so mad. Anyways, your long comment, Xen, should be read by all ISU officials, so I'd suggest you do send it to them somehow. 

[Murieleirum]

2 minutes ago, MrPudding said:

Either way if he decides to continue skating, I'm sure he'll try his best and break the scoring system again.. but. hmm I'm gonna be so salty bout this 

 

Break all the scoring systems!

 

I think he might just be able to. 

[SparkleSalad]

 

7 minutes ago, MrPudding said:

 

Yuzu once said that "as an athlete, it is their job to adapt to rules" (Something like this, I can't find the translations yet)

 

GPF 2016 press conference he said this or something similar (then unleashed 4A monster talk.)

[Sombreuil]

14 minutes ago, Xen said:

No no, see what Angry Yuzu might do is take over and become the ISU president....and the problem is that what the ISU is doing is saying none of the current skaters are what they want.  Not Yuzu, not Javi, not Patrick, not Boyang, not Nathan and probably not even Shoma. Heck possibly not even Jason Brown. 

I wonder what their 'ideal skater' looks like

[meoima]

5 minutes ago, Sombreuil said:

I wonder what their 'ideal skater' looks like

Actually that would be Patrick with 2 quads but he shall retire soon, or Shoma if his technique is not that horrible and cheated, or Jason Brown if he can jump at least one quad. Or Javi because Europe really need a presenter. But overall Patrick at his prime is the best candidate.

 

By the end 2012, many specialists already bet their money on Yuzuru because they knew great technique when they saw it. There are some top specialists which I shall not name them are actually Yuzuru's fans. But it seems the judges are not on the same side with tech specialists. As we know, judges have higher politic conflicts. 

[Xen]

14 minutes ago, MrPudding said:

 

Yuzu once said that "as an athlete, it is their job to adapt to rules" (Something like this, I can't find the translations yet).. so Yuzu would probably say the same knowing how he usually responds to this kind of questions but maybe add a little shade in there 

Honestly if the sport is not doing him any justice.. as bad as it may sound, I'd rather have him retire early just like how he wanted to back then.. to retire while he is at his best. When that time comes, it will be a huge slap in the face to the ISU. The new judging system makes its seems like its easier to inflate the scores especially with the new jumps values and the +5GOEs. I feel bad to all skaters who are working really hard but not getting their fair scores as they should've get. Thanks judges. 

But I still want to see him continue tho.. he still needs to show more new programs 

Either way if he decides to continue skating, I'm sure he'll try his best and break the scoring system again.. but. hmm I'm gonna be so salty bout this 

The article mentions the change in BV possibly coming by Beijing. I think that one he can break decently. 

The changes to the program- to technical and artistic, is where I take the most issue with, since ISU does not define things well. The system if not done well, will be broken, but not in a good way a la Hanyu, but a bad way-ie we might as well see compulsory figures with flamboyent arm movements done to Carmina Burana win over a more elaborate but subtle program (like Ave Maria, Hope and Legacy etc). Technical might be less prone to politiking, but artistic, oh boy is the politiking thick....

13 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

Yuzuru has stated that he wants to always be inside figure skating world, after all. It wouldn't be that surprising now that I think about it. Patrick has always been very vocal as well, so it would be IC for him as well. Javi, I'm not sure. My money is on Patrick and Yuzu. For now. 

 

But if Isu doesn't have the support of the federations... are they really gonna be able to do this? What about politics? Are they throwing all the consent in the air to do... I don't even know how the fuck to call this bullshit? Lol, I'm so mad. Anyways, your long comment, Xen, should be read by all ISU officials, so I'd suggest you do send it to them somehow. 

I would find those 3 being an interesting combo, maybe throw in Medvedeva, and Jin later on. Then the opinions could be very balanced. Pairs, well Tong Jian (of Pang/Tong) has decent english, so I think it's okay. Yuna and Mao both could work wonders as ambassadors for the sport if they get involved. The real issue though, is even if skaters are willing to get involved, would the vested interests that exist in the ISU allow them to get involved? That's why I joke that Yuzu could potentially march into the ISU with a giant piggy bank of UA, ANA, Lotte, Edea, Honda, Toyota etc all willing to help fund stuff and still get turned down by the ISU. 

 

I could send my post to the ISU and I imagine it would get ignored. Mainly because it would sound like a complaint and not an actual solution. Being a manager sort at work, its the solutions that are valued, not the complaints. So the real solution would be potentially if we could go through hypothetical scenarios and systems with ISU officials or judges or opinion leaders, and get hypothetical solutions to test stuff out that can then be sent to ISU. The real issue is the politiking and the potential corruption, which also affects funding. Because skating has a subjective component to it, it is always prone to politiking and corruption which makes sponsors more hesitant to throw money. The COP system has helped since now there is a clear system for judging jumps, and despite all the issues, I think it is possible for even PCS to be more balanced. Now if they follow along this path, it might be possible for a major corporate private sponsor to come in and give money to the ISU so skating is better funded, higher profile, and skating is a bit more independent of these large TV sponsors. And actually having a large private corporate sponsor might actually help increase some transparency. But so far,  with things as they are, none are willing to step in. 

[Sombreuil]

@meoima

So Patrick c 2012?  They want to turn the clock back?  I don't see this proposal achieving that.

[xeyra]

The truth is, the -5+5 % of BV GOE and lower BV on jumps system that is to be implemented next season, if Yuzu remains after 2018, theoretically should actually benefit skaters like him who have so much quality in their jumps. But the judging will still depend on human beings with their own agendas, as long as it's the Federations nominating judges. 

 

I read recently at FSU that someone compared judging in speed skating and figure skating and the latter was a lot more biased because it depended on Federations choosing which judges to send to competitions. And they choose their most biased judges. 

[meoima]

4 minutes ago, Sombreuil said:

@meoima

So Patrick c 2012?  They want to turn the clock back?  I don't see this proposal achieving that.

Well Patrick represents the majority of North American male skaters. If you look at most US skaters who do not jump quads, you can see Patrick there. Patrick is just the best example. But many North American men skate like him. And of course, Jason Brown. 

[Xen]

2 minutes ago, meoima said:

Well Patrick represents the majority of North American male skaters. If you look at most US skaters who do not jump quads, you can see Patrick there. Patrick is just the best example. But many North American men skate like him. And of course, Jason Brown. 

So their ideal skater is Mitsuki Sumoto, who recently won a JPG event without a quad, against a couple guys with quads? But ISU darlings, he's not North American....and mind you that's without a change to the system, just the judges applying rules for once. 

[Fay]

6 minutes ago, Xen said:

So their ideal skater is Mitsuki Sumoto, who recently won a JPG event without a quad, against a couple guys with quads? But ISU darlings, he's not North American....

Well, he had perfect quality triples as opposed to underrotated and messed up quads by the others. If the choice comes to that - the system allows that already. But then Jason already beat the likes of Kevin Reynolds, Maxim Kovtun and Mikhail Kolyada, so why mess up with something that produced those results? 

ETA: it might be a better idea to continue this conversation in the skating thread... as it's being discussed there already. 

[wombat-poodle]

10 minutes ago, Xen said:

So their ideal skater is Mitsuki Sumoto, who recently won a JPG event without a quad, against a couple guys with quads? But ISU darlings, he's not North American....and mind you that's without a change to the system, just the judges applying rules for once. 

 

I think what you said earlier about this rule change being a reactive power grab by ISU is interesting. ISU is not looking for the perfect skater. 

 

Someone like Mitsuki could theoretically fit the new rules very well, but if Mitsuki Sumoto is not who ISU wants at the top, they'll just lowball him on GOE. And with the reduced BV of quads and triples, trying to bridge this gap by including more difficult elements would be an extremely inefficient process. Then whoever ISU wants to favour would be given generous GOE scores. 

 

This might be extreme but I think what ISU is after is a way to manipulate scores to their liking without superficially appearing to be unfair. 

[Xen]

3 minutes ago, wombat-poodle said:

 

I think what you said earlier about this rule change being a reactive power grab by ISU is interesting. ISU is not looking for the perfect skater. 

 

Someone like Mitsuki could theoretically fit the new rules very well, but if Mitsuki Sumoto is not who ISU wants at the top, they'll just lowball him on GOE. And with the reduced BV of quads and triples, trying to bridge this gap by including more difficult elements would be an extremely inefficient process. Then whoever ISU wants to favour would be given generous GOE scores. 

 

This might be extreme but I think what ISU is after is a way to manipulate scores to their liking without superficially appearing to be unfair. 

The GOEs and PCS scores would be ripe for political manipulation, which would then decrease the profile of the sport etc etc. If anything you would think that ISU's idea of their ideal skater is actually Yuzuru...but they do seem quite okay with ditching him. 

[Sombreuil]

They know that he's a phenomenon - an outlier, the sort that only crops up every 30 years or so.

[meoima]

2 minutes ago, Xen said:

The GOEs and PCS scores would be ripe for political manipulation, which would then decrease the profile of the sport etc etc. If anything you would think that ISU's idea of their ideal skater is actually Yuzuru...but they do seem quite okay with ditching him. 

Yuzuru is like... he does too well and his quality is too good so even though many people in the skating world do not like him, they could not say anything against him much aside from attacking his "inconsistency" lol.

Then you know reputation and rumors matter quite often among the judges. I have seen a husband of a judge at Skate Canada complained this right after Yuzuru's legendary performance at GPF 2015 when he set WR like: "Hanyu got too many 10s! He did not deserve that much."

Guess what, that person once taught Javier skating skills for a while. His wife JUDGED at Skate Canada and several other competitions. 

He even said, "Asada never has a true 3A, she never landed a clean 3A in her career." <--- which is wrong because for sure Mao did land a plentiful of clean 3A in her long career but I guess some politiking did the job (and I am not even Mao's fan).

Needless to say, he hates me a lot and I once asked him something about technique on facebook he did not reply me at all.