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Xen

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  1. Xen
    ...this is why I don't really like those two...Sure, but then the question is if the current version of Nate's PCS scores are high enough? It's actually fairly reasonable given his program, but certainly beatable and not especially huge (Shooms for comparison...), especially if Yuzu can nab a similar number of 10's as GPF15. On the other hand.. if the battle is on for Silver between Nate and the other men, then yes, definitely.
  2. Xen
    Well yes, it is a good strategy, so I'm very curious to see what he does at Rostelecom when he faces Yuzu...he has to add those quads in. If he loses, it's bad PR for him. But if he adds the quads, it might still not be enough if Yuzu goes clean, as clean Seimei might come close to perfect 100 this season. Plus he is baiting falls ( I still stand by that a 5 quad program is probably the limit for men's these days if you want to go clean). As for his lack of transitions- well if you are winging your jumps all the time, say goodbye to transitions! Nate has decent technique, but I don't think he's exactly capable of pulling quads from every single possible transition/entry position possible.
  3. Xen
    And the main place where people believe bring back compulsory figures will solve everything.... But seriously, I didn't really expect less from Lombardia.Still salty about Deniss and Jason's scores on PCS, but seeing one is small fed and another doesn't have a quad (and how quads are rewarded in PCS a little too much). Then I'm not surprised that Shoma had that high in terms of PCS scores-since judges give PCS scores for skaters relative to each other, not surprising. For Nathan, while a tad more realistic, it's not that surprising either. It's not like he had major competition-Max Aaron isn't exactly known for Artistry in public perception. First, if Shoma and Nate went head to head, that might have given scores more indicative for the rest of the season. So I'm thinking ACI might give us more indicative scores-we have Javi and Yuzu who are both capable of jumping quads, going clean, and are known to have high PCS scores going head to head. So either judges do not give high 9.5ish scores for both, causing outrage but possibly also taming down the scores of the youngsters later on (since it might not make sense otherwise), or judges must raise their scores since Javi and Yuzu both had pretty good PCS scores last season and cannot really be scored below Shoma or Nate if they both give decent performances. I think the latter might be more likely. Second, I think usually Series B might give top competitors higher scores, since the PCS scores are more of how skaters are relative to each other. So I'd expect GPF scores to be lower than current ones- for some of the skaters. IE I think Jason might stay the same or go up, Deniss might stay the same (though I really want it to go up), and Nate to stay around the 8.5-9.25 bandwidth. Shoma's might go down if he goes up against Patrick though, and he does face Javi too! So I would imagine current Shoma scores to be closer to what he would get if he skates relatively clean, towards the end of the season (GPF and Oly and worlds). Third, I wonder if the tech panel will get teeth as we go on during the season. There's enough fury online, and if controversy is already starting to pile on, the ISU might consider doing something. Tech panel having teeth for once, might be the easier solution. And I think that might hit a couple of younger skaters a bit more since the biggest complaints technique has been directed towards them (or a certain someone). I've already watched Nate's new FP with a pal over dinner. We both pretty much agreed that it's better than last year, his jumps seems to have improved a bit (though landing is still not as fluid as Yuzu or the uncles), and don't think this artistry will hold up under the strain of 6 quads. We both expect Nate would bring Prince Igor-Mao's Last Dancer style to the Olys. And we find his "winging layout" idea a bit disturbing (a recipe for falls etc since you can't really run through multiple layouts easily in practice ) and ripe for Zayaking. As for Shoma's new free program...I have low blood pressure by nature, should I risk it and take a peek?
  4. Xen
    He looks terrified....and tiny....save the poor boy from the teens!
  5. Xen
    The worst part is not so much skaters know...it's that PCS and artistry is already a very subjective topic to begin with. The way they are judging makes artistry and PCS something that is extremely fickle. Think about young skaters- when you're younger, you might not have a concrete idea of what will be judged as artistic, so you rely on the judges scores to tell you what would be viewed as artistic. So you look at the scores of 2 skaters you admire and they feel kind of the same. But one gets a constant stream of 8's and another a constant strem of 9's. So you wonder, why is that? And at some point you get jaded about this. All skaters, I think, when learning try to be complete skaters, artistic and athletic. It's a disservice to the younger skaters who might aim to be an olympic champ to give them such a jaded view of how artistry is judged...my 2 cents.
  6. Xen
    Olympic champion or not, he needs to learn to be an independent human being capable of doing some chores on his own. He has to start somewhere. Otherwise, he's going to be a grouchy old man who still manages to burn water....oh the kuyashii that would lead to...
  7. Xen
    ..Ugh, don't get me started, I watched a couple more of the videos of the SP since I had work during the live stream. Deniss's SP presentation wise, was the only one I think I actually liked, and the last spin was interesting (that sit pancake position is not easy to maintain). It had speed, elegance, and a certain lightness that some of the other men lacked (maybe it's his long legs). The rest I felt like I was forced to like, cause logically I should not dislike it....
  8. Xen
    Well if I view the PCS scores as just skater A relative to skater B, then okay, I can kind of get Shoma's scores. But someone needs to explain to me Deniss's scores then. Right now I'm still not really into Shoma's SP. The movement is too much like Loco, then it's all intense looks...switch the music and it would work. And even while watching Alina's SP, her movements still make me wonder if her team just slapped on a different dress, music and stuck to last season FS's movements and steps, and almost in the same spots and order too. Well she does backload, so I'm not that surprised-you can only do certain things in a specific order if you backload (which is depressing). And now thinking about how the PCS scores are being played, I'm a bit depressed. It seems that once someone gets into a comfort zone, they just stick to a single style ad nauseum. Granted, it is the olympics season, and Alina's first senior season (and she might not even be the center of attention on her team). But I hope that at some point, both Shoma and Alina can just try something different. Heck, even closing their eyes at the opening bit a la Ballade would be different....well actually, for ladies its more depressing, since the BV reduction would hit ladies' TES, the differentiation is going to be in the PCS and GOE scores, so I imagine ladies would go even more conservative than the men's when it comes to artistry. ....you know, before this season began, I did say that should we really go to politiks, Shoma is a much easier target than Yuzuru, and he'd get pulled down much faster and harder than Yuzu. Politiks don't necessarily need to be for this season, they can start it for the next Oly cycle, and with the BV of jumps possibly decreasing, they'll just zero in on non-TES stuff. And well, tech panel if it ever gets teeth....
  9. Xen
    You're nice than me...he'd probably threaten me with my kitchen knives. I'd allow him in, but as soon as he starts messing up in the kitchen, I'll probably go on subtle hint hint nagging rants, and eventually take over the work....
  10. Xen
    nah, after he fails once, he'll get salty/kuyashii enough that he'll study, and you know, get that cordon bleu certificate done in record speed...
  11. Xen
    Or he insisted on tying it himself and having never tied an apron before, just tied it wrong.... ...you guys make it sound like he is the type who's so clueless he'd burn water...o_O
  12. Xen
    Well in China we usually use vertical, steam based irons. So it's not that bad. I can help Zuzu with dishes since I'm quite systemic and quick about it.
  13. Xen
    Well Boyang opened his own season with a mini splatfest in China...T_T and that scenario is highly possible in any GP event he attends this year, plus GPF, plus worlds (if Yuzu yolos too much or not show up in Milan), as I consider him and the younger guys virtually tied. --and then there is a costume malfuction so he has to wear the golden underwear without the skin colored tights, baring his real legs for all the world to see. And twitter really explodes this time. As too many people tweet and share full length videos of his ex program, while some hacker or anti-fan hacker probably got pissed and sends hacker bots to attack the twitter servers to stop the spread, which combined with all the full length videos being shared and retweet bots in use, fully overloads the twitter servers. That twitter servers are down, and require a full working day minimum with round-the-clock oversight to recover make the headline news. Yes, that a male figure skater, a waif of a japanese, managed to cause the snowball that took down a twitter server for a full day gets on the headline news. And in the meantime, in great admiration of his thighs, UnderArmor decides that indeed Yuzuru's build is a great representation of their ideal and actually signs a sponsorship deal with him. Fanyus across the world all unite and say " Finally! About time!" Meanwhile in the corners of Italy, a certain B*** senior bemoans the lack of thigh flashing of the "ideal skater" and considerably revisits previous evaluation of Yuzuru's artistry. There, fixed it for ya!
  14. Xen
    well, at least we are an indoor sport....
  15. Xen
    No I don't think that was the point either =D but I did think a bit more about why I didn't find the PCS scores of Javi, Yuzu and even Patrick having perfects that surprising. That's because they kind of are the more balanced tech and artistry skaters of the current gen. Well Yuzu especially, but Patrick and Javi do get classified as more artistic skaters, so I'm not shocked by their higher PCS. And relative to some of the new guys, they are. Actually Boyang's PCS scores are closer to what I'd expect as the norm. And the real norm we'd have to dig past the large feds and the top 6...then we'd have to check how PCS scores evolved since 2010 and pre-Sochi. But if I look at say Shoma, Nate and Boyang, and think of them along the athletic and artistic scale, I can see where they would most likely fall. And if you look at the Junior men coming up, even with Vincent Zhou etc you can still kind of see it. The closest I would put to balanced, might be Shoma actually, but he's not exactly quite Yuzu or Pchan level in skating skills or technical mastery. If Boyang works on his artistry, sure he could possibly achieve more than even Shoma. Among the younger guys, the only one I'd kind of see is possibly Cha Junhwa, possibly Deniss (but he's a small fed skater), maybe Shimada if he recovers? But overall, slim pickings for skaters who could combine both art and sport and do extremely well on both. So it's more probable and efficient that skaters pick one side and gun for that?
  16. Xen
    So in summary, the ISU is just trying to per-emptively reign in the feds a bit in preparation for a generation's retirement? Okay, I can kind of see that, but as the politiking doors are wide open now, I'm not sure if said doors can be shut so easily. We might not have another Hanyu in a while in the men's, but maybe the next rule wrecker will come from the ladies? As for the 60/40 pcs thing, it wasn't really a post, just a post linking to a certain blog where a certain someone bemoans that PCS counts for so much less than desired. And in this, I will probably agree with you that I don't see the point in raising PCS even higher, not just because no one has gotten a 100 yet, but artistry is harder to quantify, the most you can do is have comparative scale similar to what we have now. The number of 10's given for SS and TR is a bit interesting, but I do see that within the span of 1 season, the number of 10's awarded in PE, CO and IN has decreased significantly, especially in relation to clean/unclean programs. So perhaps ISU has managed to reign in something? Or judges found their conscience? Though this is just the larger feds, I think I'll have to go check the scores for smaller fed skaters, such as Misha, such as Denis Ten, to see whether it is really followed consistently.
  17. Xen
    I think it's this: https://planethanyu.com/topic/44-general-skating-chat/?do=findComment&comment=52374 Xeyra had one, though actually the ones in the past season with the most perfect IN, and PE scores were Javi and Yuzu. Though they didn't get much of them until Worlds.
  18. Xen
    ...Can I laugh at some of them? Honestly, the only ones that kind of make sense are Phil Hersh's for the singles events....
  19. Xen
    You know what would be curious to see? 1) Which programs have received a lot of 10's from the PE, IN and CO scores. Is there a common theme of which type of programs dominant on those scores, that would help check whether there is that much subjectivity, or if judges have diversified enough so rather than eliminate, we simply weigh these differently. 2) I know there is a trend of smaller fed skaters getting hammered on PCS scores. Where do they usually get hammered on? If not PE, IN and CO, but say TR or SS, is there a correlation between the lowering SS and TR to the lvs of the step sequence and the related GOEs? Edit: it's odd that we're trying to quantify artistry...
  20. Xen
    In some ways, this seems so poetic... Let's see, there is a technical program that still has PCS and TES scores, but since BV is in place, it will likely stay as an olympic sport. So we end up with a 4 minute single program, which I guess ISU wanted all along. But then, we create an artistic program so the feds can politik all they want to their heart's content. And at some point the IOC gets fed up and kicks the artistic program to the curb (aka out of official sanctioned olympic competition), so it dies a sad sad death ... Yes, agree, that's where the real battle is, though if you think the ISU wanted more independent judges, they'd actually not lower the BV but actually find some way to keep the BV fairly consistent so politiking carries less weight....
  21. Xen
    Yeah, but I'm thinking more of after Yuzu...cause otherwise I'd have slipped in a 4A....(Yuzu I think would be more like 4Lo 4A// 4T-1Lo-3S 4S-3T 4T 3A 3A-2T, though where to put the 4Lz... wow I see Yuzu's source of indecision...) But yes, 4T 4Lz// 4Lo 4T-3T 4S2T 3A-1Lo-3S 3A, would this work? I was thinking more of figuring out a rough idea of where we'd be with TES scores potentially...actually what would be the min/maxing layout under the new system?
  22. Xen
    Sorry, uh 3A-1Lo-3S oops, gah messed up my combos....
  23. Xen
    How about this layout, which I think is actually quite doable by most of the top 6 men these days: 4T 4Lz// 4Lo 4T-3T 4S3T 3A-L-2T 3A with an average of +2 GOEs across the board. For Shoma and Nate, we can replace the 4Lo with a 4F. Also, what if judges score GOEs differently? What will we do with the BV scaling if the skater gets an average GOE of +2.4 or +3.5 from the 9 judges? o_O
  24. Xen
    I don't think the judges would give out that many -5 GOEs, that would be too discouraging. So -1 or -2 GOE for the first 2 or so falls. Actually I would use Nate's skate from GPF. And given how clean he can be in the SP, then his SP TES scores could be atrociously high. I also don't think we'll see that many 0 GOEs, since I think quads, due to being quads, will usually automatically net a GOE bullet for height and distance (since no absolute min height has ben set). The 0 GOE might go to step outs etc, touch downs maybe? But that means the quad could still be higher value than an 3A, as a 3A would have to net 20% (+2) to be competitve against a 4T with 0 GOE. This is why, despite my lament towards the PCS scores being less than 50%, I'm not sure I'm okay with PCS points being too dominant. PCS is possibly even more subjective than GOE scores, and this would allow the big feds to be even more dominant. There was mention a couple pages ago that some people in the skating judging world do not think Asians can be expressive/artistic-well, whatever that means. But I can imagine that some might be a bit annoyed by how many asian bell-curve destroyers there are right now in skating. The last world podium had 3 asian men, the next quad cycle for ladies is probably going to be Japan vs Russia, China's always a threat in Pairs. It did get mentioned in a different forum, that if we go for an artistic program, it's highly likely to be dominated by the north american , canadian, european skaters similar to the status quo in Ice Dance, as the prevelance of warhorses indicate, tastes are conservative and defined by western/anglo-saxon preferences. Honestly, minus the Shibutani's (who are backed by the USFSA), have we seen another asian face in ice dancing crop up in the top 5 teams, in either seniors or juniors even? Let's not even get into Latinos, Africans etc....
  25. Xen
    This is amazing! I'm in awe of Karen Chen and Gabby's jump heights, since they're not that tall (they're both under 160 cm I think?). It would be amazing to see something similar for the men. Also, forgot if it was you or someone else, but I found the 2 blog articles about jump height and air time: 1) Min Air time for various jumps 2) Min jump height based on min air time I'm not sure if this is the one used to calculate Yuzu's 4A height, but we could probably figure it out? As for quads- it just cements the clean 4T and 4S as standards for the men trying to enter the top 6. Since clean 3A alone won't do the trick. Based on the tables alone, unless the top 6 guys with quads mess up majorly, an all triples program won't cut it even if you nail +5 GOE all the time. For the ladies, if a single lady ever lands a clean 3A or 4T or 4S, well that 'll be hard to catch up. Well Boyang did say he wanted to try an all quad program....and Nathan, if he can be consistent, will benefit majorly from this when we go to 7 jumping passes (all quads and 1-2 2As).
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