Jump to content

Xen

Members
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Posts

    5,582

  • Joined

  • Last visited

 Content Type 

Everything posted by Xen

  1. Xen
    I think a key that he mentioned, that the ISU system has neglected is this: "Alexander Lakernik: In my opinion, we should simplify some of the approaches and make the system more consistent. It's too early to speak on the details, but the work is already going on." I think while not perfect the system is starting to approach that- if the recent example of Mitsuki can be used. And if consistency is a problem, then having a very PCS focused program is going to be supsect to manipulation, more so than TES. At least with TES, you have a BV that is set, we can fiddle about GOEs all we want, but if you get a jump, you can count on your BVs. The real issue is juding independence, and the ISU does need to figure out how to do some of that. Anonymous juding doesn't quite help, I think it would be better perhaps that the ISU gets is own panel of judges that are trained to implement the IJS system correctly, and independently of federation leanings. That is the only way smaller feds can break out. I'm also curious if he did the BV changes and the scale GOE to BV c**p. As for the artistic/technical divide he's talking about...I wonder if in the end only the technical will survive as the Olympic sport version? Artistic can be easily prone to abuse, because as Lakernik himself mentions, people aren't that knowledgeable. Artistry is subjective-look at ice dance-there is hardly any movement in the ranks between segments, is that what we want? And even if we reduce both programs to be 2:30 mins, it still takes a toll on skater stamina. At this point, why don't they just be upfront about this and say "Hi we want to reduce figure skating to just 1 program, the technical aka the free skate, and just get it done with." Because I think in the end that's what is will be. Artistic can cause tons of controversy- an audience can like one skater, but the judges another and we need to explain why the judges' preferred skater is more artistic...oh and can you image what would happen if we have nothing but caucasian skaters dominating the artistic for years? @SparkleSalad: I wonder if us Fanyus here should do a commentary channel on Youtube to enlighten the masses. We already had this mock judge panel idea, why not go into commentary? We have enough people here who can ID steps, spins and jumps to comment on them. If the ISU can't do it, this is probably all we can do to balance stuff out in regards to skating knowledge. In china there is a saying that the people's eyes are always able to see through trickery (technically it translates as the audiences' eyes are always bright), but we need to give them eyes first. @Aotoshiro : there was a mock judging panel suggestion some time ago, not sure what its status is. But yes, even with the commentary panels, I think it would be good to have a cross section of fans represented in both, to alleviate concerns of bias. But I trust the technical fans could maintain consistency when juding or commenty. However, I'm of the opinion that for tech panel calls, we still refer back to the actual tech panel results from the competition, because the tech calls is where us Fanyus have the biggest clashes with some fandoms (not the normal ones, just the extreme fans of both camps).
  2. Xen
    Baidu, taobao, youku, CCTV, c'mon, I'm sure our almighty population of wallets in China can beat an NBC deal...much as I don't like you, I'm dreading this NBC thingy even more.
  3. Xen
    Suspected as much, under the new system, more so if goe scales off of bv, the guys without quads will not make it, even a 3A with max goe will have trouble. Ladies can just go for 4T, since one landed 4T is worth more against a 3lz versus a 3A against a 3lz. I also do not think quads will get 0 goe so long as they are landed. One of the bullets is good height and distance right? Unless we give min height standards, everyone would assume that by nature of doing a quad, you would have good height and distance, cause that's a min requirement to pull off a quad right? SO I see pos GOEs for quads short of a fall all the time as a norm.
  4. Xen
    well he doesn't have much time. he is up against 5 quads Yuzu first at russia, then against boyang, he has to show his plans soon since his pcs probably won't be higher than Yuzu's.
  5. Xen
    2022 Beijing, cctv will get involved so my guess is that things will shift to afternoon and evenings.
  6. Xen
    ...I think it's time to Yolo that 4F Yuzu. Well actually, now that the BV points are out, I think we'll be seeing a lot more 4F coming up....
  7. Xen
    Well at least for the single's and pairs disciplines....that would work wonders....
  8. Xen
    That might be a good idea, as would elevating the small medals a bit to a formal ceremony etc. But I would just imagine the huge line of TV channels willing to broadcast that....
  9. Xen
    The more I think about this, the more questions I have. 1) I might have overlooked something, but is there a guideline out on what is a +1 to +5 GOE under the new GOE system now? I thought there were only 8 bullet points for GOE...where did 9 and 10 come from? 2) Has anyone else figured out that weird logic that they're proposing to amend to the +/-5 GOE range? To quote: "The interval between the scores would be set at 10 percent of the base value, as opposed to the current system, which has no standardized relationship to the base value. For instance, a +2 on a triple lutz now adds 1.4 to a base value of 6.0, a 23 percent bonus, while a +2 on a quad lutz adds 2.0 to a base value of 13.6, a 14 percent bonus." Those 2 combined makes me think that for all the talk of quads being bad, they're making it very difficult for non-quad skaters to actually catch up on the tech component and could potentially cement the non-quad skaters as never in the top 6. So, out of curiosity, anyone want to do math/excel practices? I'm curious what this would actually do to the current men's and ladies skaters (think ladies would be even scarier). If we apply the top scores of the top 6 men this season, and do that weird math thingy that Bianchetti is talking about on GOEs, using the new reduced BV system, what kind of results would we get? Would we actually get the balance that they supposedly are striving for, would any weird results come out? Edit: anyone want to take a shot at Jason Brown and Misha Ge's scores too?
  10. Xen
    But ISU never really liked him...and I suspect they didn't like Yagudin either. If the idea was we hate quads, Yagudin and Plushy really pushed it, especially Plush with his yolo combos....
  11. Xen
    And without changes to prevent the scores from GOE inflation or PCS inflation in favor of the larger feds, I'm not sure how smaller feds can compete on the artistic program. And then you have to politik for 2 programs, not one....well if this goes through, 2022 the last total package skating generation....
  12. Xen
    ...I was joking about Yuzu yoloing a 4lz2T....
  13. Xen
    My understanding of the COP system was that it was written by a freakin' skater, so I'd give the skater who did this thing the benefit of the doubt and grant that the GOE deductions do just that- a penalty to your technical competency. While I see where sometimes falls can deduct in PCS and your experience of a program, I think there are elements, such as musical interpretation, such as transitions etc, which are perfectly capable of being judged independent of jumps, and those should not be affected by falls since the falls do not actually detract.
  14. Xen
    If he says it's stable to Tsusuki sensei, then I would imagine the only issue remaining for Yuzu is to twizzle or not to twizzle? Actually I imagine a spread eagle sandwich more likely....
  15. Xen
    Well if the deductions were being applied consistently, and ISU actually decides to help clarify and enforce that no 10's can be given for unclean programs. They could also state that after a certain number of falls skaters cannot have above certain points in PCS scores (not all, but some). But I think if consistency is the point, then the issue isn't so much giving weight 50/50, but to figuring out how to encourage consistency and clean programs. Having a factor to boost PCS in clean programs would be a bit better than BV devaluation and GOE boost (considering how judges don't follow GOE rules perfectly). Then you might get skaters, like Jason, who skate clean and can get a 10% boost to PCS scores and gain about 9 points overall, while maybe not podium finish in some cases, in others it could lead to that, as it should.
  16. Xen
    Dear, that's 6.0 system...that was the closest we had....>_> and look at the controversies it caused and the blackboxes in judging...
  17. Xen
    60% seems a tad high. I think it's a bit odd to give percentiles to how scores should be weighed actually, and you can increase the PCS percentile by lowering the TES scores (which lowering BVs gets you, but then gets defeated by an increased GOE range). What I would find more interesting if they factor it. For example, if you skate a clean program, should you get a small bump in the PCS scores on the merit of that? Should we get a small downgrade in PCS depend on the number of falls? There was also talk in another forum about fixing the backloading by using a progressive system, such as just 5% for the first 30 s of the back portion of a program, and progressively getting to 10% extra to distribute the backloading a bit more evenly. Can this be applied to PCS? For example, if you have a totally squeaky clean program, should we have a multiplier of 10%? That way in those extremely rare cases, a clean program can garner a score above 100- so the precentile of points from PCS does increase. The tricky part is how to deduct for falls and unclea programs- I would suggest maybe going down a full 10% if the skater has more than 3 falls, but only progressively moving to that. Anything in between, keep the PCS score as is without factoring. It would serve to point skaters towards consistency more than going too far one way or the other. But I don't think this above method is what the ISU is looking for....
  18. Xen
    for the shade throwing. XD But seriously, the main issue is the politiking. Misha Ge's PCS scores make me cry at times, as does Lil Bet's scores. And let's not forget about URs, Edge calls etc. Apply the rules consistently and we will see smaller fed skaters rise to the top, it's not like they don't have good skaters
  19. Xen
    I would actually argue that the separation of artistic and technical might hurt small feds more than the large feds. So long as they have the combined programs winner, the presitge is going to come from winning the combined programs scores. Which is not too different from the current system-how much presitge do we get from small medals? Additionally, the smaller feds even if they focus their resources on a single side, they might not still be able to hold a candle against the larger feds who can go all guns blazing on both sides. If anything, having 2 programs is a resource drain on smaller feds. What the ISU really should try to do is figure out how to a) promote figure skating in smaller feds; b) help even the resource gap between smaller feds and larger feds-get some sponsorships, share best coaching practices, get some grants in place for the smaller fed budding skaters. That's how you equalize stuff. Oh and stop the politicking so the smaller feds skaters don't get penalized or judged differently from the larger feds. Edit: I forgot to add, is the ISI skating system tied to the ISU? I thought it was not, so another thing for the ISU to tackle. Try to unfiy the training system in place for figure skating, so my USFSA freestyle 6 translates in China okay, rather than have me go through China's testing system from scratch again. That would actually help the smaller feds too, since now they have a basis for their own training paths.
  20. Xen
    This would have been a more interesting topic, should we take it over to the Skating Gen Chat?
  21. Xen
    Wish I didn't have the extra info cause it means I bothered to read her stuff....
  22. Xen
    Actually Phil Hersh in his blog, used Nathan as the poster child. So the use of Boyang was purely Ice network....Also, if the ISU goes with the split programs, you know China could afford to really push and dominate both. I mean, we have the centralized schools a la the russian system, and the population to really push for it.
  23. Xen
    https://twitter.com/Iron_Klaus/status/907593594818744320 --> cause I suck at embedding tweets... Is this what I think it's saying, that essentially US, Russia, China all went "nope" on the rules amendment? And the suspicision is on Western Europe's small feds driving this? And what's with the Canada mention? o_O
  24. Xen
    She doesn't gush so much about Patrick. And her admiration for Shoma and Nathan seem kind of cursory...especially if you consider she gushes about how Nathan is so good at jumping and then goes in the same post (GPF 2016) to say yeah, jumps should be hit....but it's probably good for us to know where some ISU sits on the bias meter. It's okay to even have bias, but to act on it is a different issue.
  25. Xen
    I think the post was made in response to the question "What is ISU's ideal skater" and in her blog writings, she's made it plenty clear she likes Javi and his skating is her "ideal." Considering that her son is now the guy in charge of the singles and pairs disciplines, it could be inferred, even if incorrectly, that her ideal has influenced the rules. While not exactly for or against Yuzu, she has mentioned before she was not happy with the way technical has evolved faster than artistic-go check out her 2014 olympics results writing. And her GPF 2016 writing was kinda calling it a disaster... While she doesn't exactly go out and assassinate skaters, she has bemoaned the issue of judging-to which my question would be why the hell are you guys helping judges politik and muck things up more with the new GOE systems? There is also this writing here: http://www.soniabianchetti.com/writings_2016gpf.html go to the way bottom where she talks about PCS, make out of the proposal what you will.
×
×
  • Create New...