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xeyra

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  1. xeyra
    But negative GOE on quads can be very costly in the new system. I was extrapolating the new system on Nathan's Worlds layout and even though it's impossible to say how the +1/+2/+3/0/-1/-2/-3 would in reality be comparable to the new GOE margins, I assumed a fall was automatic -5 GOE and any +1 was transformed into +2, +2 into +3 and +3 into +4 (doubting we'll see many +5 at all). I was slightly more generous on negative GOE. As for the factoring on GOE, I used only the BV of the first jump in combos, without bonus. Regardless, what I found out is two falls on quads IS very costly. Even with neutral GOE on all the negative jumping passes he had at Worlds, Nathan would get less TES in the new system because of those two falls. Edit: this would only be true, of course, if negative GOE used the same percentage of BV as positive GOE and if a fall would be -5 GOE. This seems extremely discouraging of quads if so.
  2. xeyra
    Comparative Scale of Values for triple and quadruple jumps, comparing current season with 2018-2019 season proposed changes, taking into account the interpretation we've all had with the 10% increment on GOE based on BV as described in the article: If their goal is to allow for people with good triples to catch up on quads... then I doubt we'll see many +4 and +5 on the latter..... or we will, and we'll have even higher TES scores than we have now! Edit: However, negative GOE/falls on quads will be a LOT more damaging. Which means a good triple program could theoretically outscore a 4 quad program with plenty negative GOE/some falls. Edit 2: So, given the risk/rewards, do we think we'll see people hold back on quads? As was pre-2010 before they raised their value?
  3. xeyra
    Also, toe assisted jumps tend to have the most height, as expected, except the 3T, because it's mostly ever used as the second jump in a combination, thus it tends to be lower since it comes out of the landing speed of the previous jump. Polina's (and Karen/Elizabeta too, actually) 3Lz height is insane. Agree about Wakaba. Good height and good rotational speed is a great balance to have. Alina Zagitova too has sort of average height in her jump but rotates fast! Both their jumps do tend to look very good. And, what do you know, they'll both be at Lombardia this week.
  4. xeyra
    This is completely unrelated to Yuzu or the Men's, but this is a really interesting study on Ladies jump height and rotational speed. It's in Russian but the tables are understandable anyway. Hoping they do one for the men too! Interesting tidbits: Ashley's 3T has the same height as Mai's, but the reason why Ashley tends to UR it more than Mai is because her rotational speed is slower for that same height. You need to rotate faster the lower your jumps are, and thus Ashley's UR issues. This seems to be the general problem with Ashley's jumps too. Satoko, on the other hand, always has the lowest jumps but she's one of the fastest in her rotations. Alternatively, Gabby Daleman makes up for her slower rotational speed by having some of the highest jumps! Polina Tsurskaya too. The study calculated total combined jump height and max rotational speed on a jump but I would have liked to see height and rotational speed averages.
  5. xeyra
    Back in 2016 Lakernik gave an interview where he talked about the technical and artistic programs and what they might contain. Technical program would be like the short or free skate, with a certain number of elements Artistic would focus on presentation, with easier elements They'd be equal in length Medal for each program and possibly overall (sum of scores of the two programs?) http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2016/08/16/196138174
  6. xeyra
    New article on Nathan Chen's plans. He's apparently only going to be doing 1 quad in the SP and 2-3 in the FS for the US Classic since it's not an important competition and he wants to go slow and use it as an opportunity to see what he needs to work on for the Grand Prix season. And to work his way into basically winging his layout based on his mood/condition at the time, so whether we'll see 5, 6 or 7 quads will depend on whatever mood he's in, how much he needs to make up for in terms of points, etc., though I suspect they'll be working to get Nathan ready for 7 quads for the Big Day. But he'll need the 4Lo for that so we'll see. Also, the plan is also to do both his quads in the second half of the SP, so.... His old SP BV: 53.15 His new SP BV: 55.32
  7. xeyra
    Thank you. That makes sense. Still not quite sure why they didn't calculate the GOE increments off the second half BV, only from the non-bonus BV, even when jumps are in second half.
  8. xeyra
    After comparing to the example above and doing one of my own, I've come to some conclusions: - I'm not sure how they'll use the 10% of BV on GOE increments on combinations and, especially, in second half jumps. The example above only seems to consider BV without the bonus, and in combinations only the BV of the first jump. I don't know why they decided to do that, since I don't remember seeing anything about that in the icenetwork article. - It's impossible to convert properly the GOE given to skaters at Worlds to the new -5+5 scale because we don't know which bullet points will be required to hit each GOE increment. - If I were to maintain the GOEs of the other elements as they were and then convert every +2 GOE to +3 and every +3 to +4 GOE (and every +1 to +2) obtained in jumps, multiplied them to the increment value, even if using only base values (and not bonus BV) as well as BV only of first jump in combos... as seen in the example above and after doing my own math, Yuzu would still have gotten a similar score than he got at Worlds.... Score would be even higher if the 10% increment was calculated against the total BV of the combo, or against second half bonus. So my belief is judges won't be so generous with +4 and +5 GOEs and this 10% increment is not being used in our examples the way they intend. Otherwise the system will still be broken.
  9. xeyra
    BTW someone did this, but my math only goes so far and I'm not entirely sure how they came up with the judge scores? Edit: Wait, I got it, they did use the 10% increments like I mentioned. As well as convert every +2 into +3 and every +3 into +5, which I'm not quite sure on though. Edit 2: On the other hand, in combinations, they counted 10% in GOE only from the first jump in the combo, not the total BV of the combo. Not sure why?
  10. xeyra
    I wouldn't mind trying to do this but I have no idea what they mean by 'the interval between the scores would be set at 10 percent of the base value'. And also, should we take every +3 given as a +5? Will we even have +5s in the new system or will judges not want to dole those out as often? What will the bullets require for each GOE? Say, for example, the 4T at 9.5. Would +1 GOE mean 0.95 added to the BV (10% of BV), and +5 GOE mean 4.75?
  11. xeyra
  12. xeyra
    It's so perfect!
  13. xeyra
    Yes, that was mostly my point. What works in gymnastics to award the specialization wouldn't work in Figure Skating with a division between athletic and artistic, when the goal has always been a good balance between both. Sure, some can be stronger in jumps, others in interpretation and performance, but ISU should find a way to reward the later more comparatively to the points obtained with the first, instead of... just separating them and awarding them medals and then I guess sum up the points on each program to come up with their 'ideal well-rounded skater' and medal that one too. And in the end, you didn't see the well-rounded skater bring both athletic and artistic together, you just saw them being good enough at each separately.
  14. xeyra
    Max never said if he landed any...
  15. xeyra
    Gymnastics doesn't really pretend to be an 'artistic' sport anymore, to be honest. The different apparatus are still mostly technical, with the execution mark grading how you did on it with the proper deductions. The only more artistic exercise, Floor, isn't even that artistic. Rhythmic gymnastics is a bit different because it tends to be a bit more musical but Difficulty is still half of your grade and execution deductions aren't that particularly related to how nicely artistic the program was, just how well it was executed. So while I love gymnastics and the specialization that it allows, while a Beam specialist may be incredible in that apparatus, they may not actually be that well-rounded a gymnast in the end. This should not be the goal in Figure Skating, to divide between 'athletic' and 'artistic'. It has been and should be to continue to combine both into a 'complete' figure skater. And if you divide, especially with whatever ideas they'll use to compose these two types of programs, you might have less people focusing on finding that balance.
  16. xeyra
    Yuzu doesn't put combos in the first half, though. So no 4Lz3T unless he can do it in the second half!
  17. xeyra
    Some people think they're not being penalized enough. Heck, I see people in other forums complain that a fall should automatically deduct all your PCS scoring by a certain amount, as if a fall interfers too much in your overall skating skills or even your interpretation of the music.
  18. xeyra
    This is interesting. Brian hints some things while Yuzu keeps a bit more quiet and conservative this time. Yuzu gives out to the Japanese media a layout he'll do not involving 4Lz but then seems to talk to Tsusuki-sensei about the 4Lz, which is casually dropped in an article. There's a Nikkan article that I didn't bring here because google translate gave me a dramatic and negatively tinted translation, that seemed to imply that Yuzu didn't intend to add 4Lz because he wanted to first do clean Seimei (at least once with the current layout?). So I've been wondering if Yuzu will use ACI to test his 5-quads layout and see how clean he can be in competition before he considers bringing out the 4Lz. At the same time, Nathan and Shoma and Javi will also be testing their programs to judges, which might influence, or not, the decision on 4Lz. I wonder how many runthroughs he's been doing WITH the 4Lz and how successful they've been....
  19. xeyra
    For context: Based on Bianchetti's wife blog proposal of increasing PCS's weight to be worth 60% of the total score, which is at least better than separating Figure Skating singles into 'artistic' and 'athletic', how would this work? Is this basically raising the factoring of PCS people have been proposing? It's at least better than just lowering BV on quads.
  20. xeyra
    I have no idea what they intend and how that separation will go, but I don't think the 'artistic' program would be devoid of jumps. I think the 'artistic' program would probably have more freedom of elements to choose from and more limitations on others (no quads? limit on quads?). I am also worried about how they'd organize an athletic program. Would you be judging PCS there too or just how good your TES is? Would it have the length and format of a SP or take out step sequences, spins? But those are technical elements too. And if you still score PCS on both, what the heck is the difference then? I also doubt both segments would be 4 minutes. Remember, less is better for their TV licenses. They're already reducing the FS time for next season due to TV broadcasters. As for the BV changes, they're not even bringing them back to the old pre-2010 values but reducing jump value even more. I guess that way people with nice triples and great step sequences and spins can thrive? Jason Brown, Adam Rippon? But if you already don't reward their good triples anyway near max GOE, it's not like it'll make much of a change.
  21. xeyra
    Actually, I was reading her GPF 2016 blog and she was very complimentary of Yuzu, Nathan and Shoma there. But then goes on to decry the technical in comparison to the components and lamenting how skaters like Jason Brown can't medal. Which is not particularly wrong. I wonder, though, how her proposal of making PCS weigh 60% of your score would work. Is this basically raising the factoring of PCS people have been proposing? It's at least better than just lowering BV on quads. Or create separate technical/athletic and artistic program segments.
  22. xeyra
    Heck, Boyang hasn't even upgraded his layout to add any more quads yet either, being the chill quadster the others aren't. His layout at the Chinese Grand Prix was the same as last season, with 4 quads only. His SP hasn't changed. He's choosing to develop himself further instead of going for 5-6 quads!
  23. xeyra
    Bringing this here so as not to clog up the General thread too much. Having some bias for skaters of your own country/continent and some old school personal preferences in skating style in natural. Politicking for your preferences is also part of the sport considering the way judges are nominated for competitions (not by random draw of judges but of countries, which then choose their judges). Even within Europe, though, there's different preferences. Not everyone will have the same bias and enjoy the same things. Or be influenced by the same parties or have the same influence. But she's the wife of the president of the ISU committee making her bias so public, so it's comment worthy. Javi IS a good posterboy for the sport: he's handsome, with good technique on his quads and fits a quintessential idea of male skating that is less... controversial. His 2016 FS was an amazing vehicle and he had the greatest stage outside of the Olympics to show it and he did (his Elvis FS last season wasn't nearly as good, IMHO; Nic Nadeau made a more charismatic Elvis). Patrick too, is a good example of great balance. And it's not like Yuzu is being denied no matter how good he is or he wouldn't be having the kind of scores he's broken records with. On a different subject, back into the scoring changes, as much as one might wonder the effect of these scoring changes, the ones who might be less hit by them will be those who already have good technique and components. But it'll depend on how well the new GOE ranges can be implemented and how well their judges will use them. Which, as I've said before, seeing how they can barely deal with the -3+3 range, doesn't bode well.
  24. xeyra
    It's not like these changes will benefit any of the current uncles who better match the 'ideal skater', who will retire after 2018, or many of those artistic skaters like Misha Ge, who can do a clean program with beautiful choreography and never get past 80s in his PCS in the current system. Jason Brown is basically the only non-quadster who can get any 9s, which he well deserves because he's awesome, but let's not pretend it's not because he's from a big federation.
  25. xeyra
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