Team Russia

[FlyingCamel]

26 minutes ago, Fay said:

The greater the speed, the harder it gets to control the jump. This is where having a reliable technique comes to the fore. And according to Plushenko, she doesn’t really have it. 

 

When did he say that? Kinda curious haha. Is it the documentary that aired last week?

[Lunna]

9 часов назад, rockstaryuzu сказал:

If she builds up strength and gets the right technique going, in theory there's no reason she couldn't. 

Here comes good old discussion if skater can change technique in adult age. I don't believe it can be changed much, at least in competitions old reflexes will come back again.

9 часов назад, rockstaryuzu сказал:

true but you get so much back in return - more height, more rotation, more flow coming out the other side. At least, that's what I see with Yuzu anyway. Kolyada too, come to think of it. 

 Also we see how Kolyada can't control his jumps, but he also has good height , so it's very hard for him. Too much speed is also not an option, I think Yuzu has good enough speed into his jumps but not overdoing it, cuz balance is important, with Yuzu what stands out more is good speed through whole program, which is far from crossovers.

[Sombreuil]

(I’m not sure that this is the right place for this comment, but it’s stuff on social media about Kostornaia that got me thinking about it so this is where I’m dumping it.  If it would be better elsewhere please move it?)

 

On English speaking media there is a bit of a ‘Kostornaia is so wonderful because she’s a skating genius and she’s going to be a neurosurgeon afterwards etcetc ‘ narrative beginning to crop up increasingly often.  It’s reminding me of the NC/Yale narrative and has crystallised my thinking on the subject, because there’s the inference (sometimes expressed but usually unspoken) that every other skater is lacking, because they don’t have such lofty ambitions.  Here it’s thrown at Trusova and Scherbakova, who seem to be skate mad teenagers, and are somehow regarded as lesser beings.  
 

Firstly, as the mother of a junior doctor, I’d like to point out that doctors are like everyone else- they are not all angels of mercy, sweetness and light, ministering to the sick uncomplainingly etc etc.  A very small number of individuals might live up to that, but among the ones I am acquainted with they probably manage it some of the time- the rest of the time they are a group of ordinary young people with a mixture of reasons for doing medicine, and many of those reasons aren’t particularly altruistic.  Personally I would hate to be treated by some of my children’s friends because some of them seem to dislike their job and the people involved in it and some view the patient as a puzzle to be solved not a person to be treated.  They do a difficult job, we are all very much in their debt at the moment with COVID etc, but they aren’t as a group superior beings who are more worthy than for example the nurse or the care home worker who are often more empathetic.
 

Secondly Kostornaia is 16.  She has a long road to qualify as a doctor, never mind neurosurgery.  I don’t blame her, she has an ambition, excellent, but that’s all it is - a wish for the future, interesting to the media and fans but it’s not a reason to elevate her above the others.  This is a sport, it rewards excellence on the ice,( or should) not what anyone does off the ice, what subjects they study or whether they are good at the media round or are able to  express themselves in English, or which university they go to.  It’s interesting to her fans but it doesn’t make her better than her rivals.  Her skating might if she puts the work in.

[SitTwizzle]

2 minutes ago, Sombreuil said:

(I’m not sure that this is the right place for this comment, but it’s stuff on social media about Kostornaia that got me thinking about it so this is where I’m dumping it.  If it would be better elsewhere please move it?)

 

On English speaking media there is a bit of a ‘Kostornaia is so wonderful because she’s a skating genius and she’s going to be a neurosurgeon afterwards etcetc ‘ narrative beginning to crop up increasingly often.  It’s reminding me of the NC/Yale narrative and has crystallised my thinking on the subject, because there’s the inference (sometimes expressed but usually unspoken) that every other skater is lacking, because they don’t have such lofty ambitions.  Here it’s thrown at Trusova and Scherbakova, who seem to be skate mad teenagers, and are somehow regarded as lesser beings.  
 

Firstly, as the mother of a junior doctor, I’d like to point out that doctors are like everyone else- they are not all angels of mercy, sweetness and light, ministering to the sick uncomplainingly etc etc.  A very small number of individuals might live up to that, but among the ones I am acquainted with they probably manage it some of the time- the rest of the time they are a group of ordinary young people with a mixture of reasons for doing medicine, and many of those reasons aren’t particularly altruistic.  Personally I would hate to be treated by some of my children’s friends because some of them seem to dislike their job and the people involved in it and some view the patient as a puzzle to be solved not a person to be treated.  They do a difficult job, we are all very much in their debt at the moment with COVID etc, but they aren’t as a group superior beings who are more worthy than for example the nurse or the care home worker who are often more empathetic.
 

Secondly Kostornaia is 16.  She has a long road to qualify as a doctor, never mind neurosurgery.  I don’t blame her, she has an ambition, excellent, but that’s all it is - a wish for the future, interesting to the media and fans but it’s not a reason to elevate her above the others.  This is a sport, it rewards excellence on the ice,( or should) not what anyone does off the ice, what subjects they study or whether they are good at the media round or are able to  express themselves in English, or which university they go to.  It’s interesting to her fans but it doesn’t make her better than her rivals.  Her skating might if she puts the work in.

I hadn't noticed that sort of narrative was starting to emerge but if it is, then it is quite as stupid to use it about Anna Shcherbakova as it is from Nathan Chen's stans against Yuzuru Hanyu, who got his admission to Waseda University through normal exam, not through special athletes admission as I suppose Nathan Chen did (but I may be wrong).

Maybe even more so, because Alena Kostornaia herself (who is nearly 17, by the way) repeatedly called Anna Shcherbakova an "intellectual", and the latter has never said what she aimed to do later as a career; her parents, in their last interview, seemed to imply she hadn't chosen yet. As to her motivations into neurosurgery, until now she expressed more attraction for the challenges a neurosurgeon has to take up, than to being a ministering angel at a patient's bedside. And I don't see it a problem with a surgeon. It is more so for a family doctor or even a non-surgical specialist. Of course we only have her interviews, I really think she's sincere but we don't have the deeper of her thoughts, and as you say she's still a teenager, and high-level athletes tend to be a bit late in maturity (which is not a problem in our times).

[Lunna]

35 минут назад, Sombreuil сказал:

On English speaking media there is a bit of a ‘Kostornaia is so wonderful because she’s a skating genius and she’s going to be a neurosurgeon afterwards etcetc ‘ narrative beginning to crop up increasingly often.  It’s reminding me of the NC/Yale narrative and has crystallised my thinking on the subject, because there’s the inference (sometimes expressed but usually unspoken) that every other skater is lacking, because they don’t have such lofty ambitions.  Here it’s thrown at Trusova and Scherbakova, who seem to be skate mad teenagers, and are somehow regarded as lesser beings.

Interesting that it's not like that in Russia, but I think we must start from the fact that doctor is not the most prestigious profession here, of course a surgeon is not just a family doctor, but still not like in the West. I didn't saw her PR based on future profession like with Nathan in US press (and she's not even in the university yet). Maybe it's a fact that figure skating is more or less popular here, so no need to add future professions into the fans fight, there's enough drama even without it.

[Sombreuil]

I’m not sure the medical profession is particularly venerated in the uk tbh - the nhs etcetc but it’s more the idea of that which is venerated, than the individuals who make it up, and people are quite critical of individuals where they perceive them to be wrong.  The very elderly remember a time when it wasn’t free so they do think of doctors as special, not wanting to bother them.  Perhaps it’s just Uber fans who are seeking some outlet given that they can’t rave about performances and costumes at the moment,  in which case I have a little sympathy.

[rockstaryuzu]

7 hours ago, Lunna said:

Also we see how Kolyada can't control his jumps,

Actually, it's been a year since we last saw him compete, so we don't know if this is still true. 

 

As an aside, who else is looking forward to seeing Kolyada back on the ice? Because I really am. 

 

Anyway, yes it can be hard for someone to change ingrained bad technique but it's not impossible. Ever hear the saying 'practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect' ? This is exactly what it's referring to - practicing good technique so often it becomes ingrained in the muscle memory, just like the bad technique used to be. 

 

And Trusova needs speed throughout her program, not just for jumps. She's not as bad as Zagitova but there's room for improvement. 

[rockstaryuzu]

2 hours ago, Sombreuil said:

 It’s reminding me of the NC/Yale narrative and has crystallised my thinking on the subject, because there’s the inference (sometimes expressed but usually unspoken) that every other skater is lacking, because they don’t have such lofty ambitions.  

I feel like all this kind of commentary all stems from the same place: the stereotype that an athlete can't also be intelligent or intellectual. There's a perception that physical prowess somehow comes along with a diminished number of brain cells, so whenever a skater makes no secret of their intelligence, suddenly there's this "Oh, wow! Whoa, amazing!"  reaction. 

 

This despite the fact that physical activity and participation in sport has been scientifically proven to improve mental performance. 

 

Anyway. I agree with the rest of what you said. And I'm going to add that, at least in the hospital where I work, surgeons are regarded as cowboys by the other doctors. Aka, kind of reckless and overconfident, not necessarily too bright. So it's all in the perspective. 

[Sombreuil]

Before the decision to apply for medicine was made we went to more careers talks on the subject than anyone should have to sit through on any subject but their own.  One was quite entertaining - can’t remember his specialty but he was a consultant physician, who, when asked what happened if all the things he was talking about didn’t work, said ‘ at that point there’s no option but to call in the plumbers’ - meaning the surgeons of course.

[Lunna]

50 минут назад, rockstaryuzu сказал:

She's not as bad as Zagitova but there's room for improvement. 

I have an impression that with good programs Zagitova's speed could be not that bad (without kicks here and there)

[rockstaryuzu]

1 hour ago, Lunna said:

I have an impression that with good programs Zagitova's speed could be not that bad (without kicks here and there)

Maybe. Anytime I watch her, what sticks out to me is her lack of speed. It's especially noticeable in her step sequences. 

 

Bear in mind, everybody except for Yuzu looks slow to me. 

[Lunna]

13 минут назад, rockstaryuzu сказал:

Bear in mind, everybody except for Yuzu looks slow to me. 

I'd say almost all Japanese skaters have good speed in general, but I don't want to compare Yuzu, it's always funny how he's the fastest on the warm-up first laps.

[SitTwizzle]

23 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

Maybe. Anytime I watch her, what sticks out to me is her lack of speed. It's especially noticeable in her step sequences. 

 

Bear in mind, everybody except for Yuzu looks slow to me. 

Her programs show off her agility in blade movements, and the precision of her dance movements. So, I don't miss speed when I watch her.

While Yuzuru Hanyu's speed makes me dream, in the most literal sense, his really high maximum speed being enhanced by his accelerations and decelerations, and by the impression he gives of needing no effort to gain speed or to stop in no time.

She makes me like street dance (at least when she dances, I still loathe it globally), whereas he gives me this impression of being myself at this speed, wind and all, while at the same time fascinating me with each of his movements... No skater can compare with him, of course.

[FlyingCamel]

32 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

 

Bear in mind, everybody except for Yuzu looks slow to me

Honestly I don’t think I can compare anyone to Yuzu anymore... the difference is obvious if you watch Yuzu, then watch someone else right afterwards. He’s a cut above nearly everyone else in pretty much everything IMO

Of course there are many other amazing skaters but Yuzu is in a league of his own so I really wouldn’t compare anyone to him!

 

Regarding the Aliona/Nathan topic: I think it’s alright when people acknowledge their talents outside of skating, but not when people use them as a way to elevate them above their competitors because it isn’t related to the sport after all

 

[yuzupon]

20 hours ago, Sombreuil said:

This is a sport, it rewards excellence on the ice,( or should) not what anyone does off the ice, what subjects they study or whether they are good at the media round or are able to  express themselves in English, or which university they go to.  It’s interesting to her fans but it doesn’t make her better than her rivals.  Her skating might if she puts the work in.

Hear, hear!