General Skating Chat

[meoima]

42 minutes ago, xeyra said:

I did wonder why people didn't backload two jumps in the SP because it's only 2.30 mins, which is basically the first half of a FS, but I think because of the very strict rules of the SP, which will cost a lot if anything doesn't meet its requirements, skaters aren't very keen on taking too many risks there, including saving too much stuff for the second half.

 

I mean, you notice how Yuzu was basically the only skater actually using his combo as the second jumping pass and not the first? People want to get the combo done first, which helps if you mess it up since then you have a second jump you can attach it to. Having the combo as the second jumping pass is a risk that kind of bit him in the ass last season but it's a strategy he's been following for a long time, back when he did 3Lz3T in the second half, and the only comparison in risk I can maybe find in the top men is Boyang doing his 4T in the second half. 

Yuzuru has always done combo in the second half... for some reason... Now people understand why he insisted on doing 4-3 in the second half of LP. Because now his 4-3 in the second half of SP is already stable. 

[kaeryth]

7 minutes ago, xeyra said:

Apparently Shoma may end up backloading his combo and 3A as well, according to some tweets of his SP performance at FaOI today (he used the triple versions of the jumps there).

 

So updating the numbers I'd had before, we get this:

4Lo 4F3T // 3A - 51.55 BV 

4Lo // 4F3T 3A - 53.21 BV

 

Shoma has taken some of Yuzu's strategies to heart before (all combos in second half of FS, two 3A combos) and it's being very effective for him. 

To note though: Shoma is risking a lot with this SP since he's not actually had a 4F3T combo done in competition yet. I'm not quite sure if he's done a 4F combo either. 

 

 

 

Yuzu's always been ahead of everyone in terms of strategy. I think Shoma or his team realised this.

But is he really confident not just with a combo on the second half but also on his 4F?

I have a strange feeling he's gonna start getting called on his prerotation... Specially since his first GP is Skate Chanada.

[ralucutzagy]

 

[crystal]

10 minutes ago, ralucutzagy said:

 

Oh my goodness!

[meoima]

So bringing this from the fantasy on ice thread: It is said that Yuzuru tried out 4lz at FaOI practice. He landed 2 out of 5 times. And one landing was perfect.

it is good that now he still has the whole summer to practice 4lz. As he doesn't have to learn new programs anyway. So all of his training time can be focused on those new difficult jumps. 

[ralucutzagy]

Yes! If he recycle both Chopin and SEIMEI, he has extra time for trying all sorts of layouts and of course the 4Lz! 

But is he really bringing back SEIMEI too?? I still can't belive it. I must hear from his mouth to belive it...

[Valkyria]

2 hours ago, meoima said:

So bringing this from the fantasy on ice thread: It is said that Yuzuru tried out 4lz at FaOI practice. He landed 2 out of 5 times. And one landing was perfect.

it is good that now he still has the whole summer to practice 4lz. As he doesn't have to learn new programs anyway. So all of his training time can be focused on those new difficult jumps. 

Having more time to spend on the new jump is kinda the whole point, right? Yeah, he will upgrade as much as he's able, but keeping a base that's already ingrained and he's comfortable with should give him a headstart on that.

 

I was never mad at him choosing Chopin again; as much as I want to get as many programs from him, it's his decision and he must have his reasons. We will have our own opinions, but in the end his is the only one that matters 

[Murieleirum]

5 hours ago, ralucutzagy said:

 

 

On facebook as well:

"Chissà che la combinazione non possa diventare un'interessante opzione per il programma libero della prossima stagione. Ci sarebbe un piccolo guadagno in termini di punti. 
4S/2T, 4T/3T/3Lo, 4T, 3A/2Lo, 3A = 66.66 nella seconda metà
4S/3T, 4T/Lo/3S, 4T, 3A/2Lo, 3A = 65,01 nella seconda metà"
(He says: who knows, maybe this combination can become an interesting option for Next Season's FS. There would be a small upgrade of BV.)

 

Max Ambesi is running the numbers, I REPEAT, Max Ambesi is running the numbers!!!

I bet everything I have that he's been spending the last 48 hours EXACTLY like all of us, trying to figure out all of the possible tech combinations for a BV upgrade. 

 

One must love this man. I certainly love him like a loving uncle. I hope to meet him one day. Okay, end rambling. 

[xeyra]

3A2Lo is a combo I never really considered in my layout speculation but if he were to try a 4T3T3Lo combo in a program, he'd either have to do two 2T combos, which would be very same-y, or try that 2Lo. The difference between 3A2T and 3A2Lo is about 1.53.

 

Here's a full BV rundown of some layout variations, including old and new, but all of these with 4Lz because that's the only way he'd be able to repeat 4T and 3A in Max's examples, so I'm sure he's thinking of 4Lz in these layouts as well.

 

4-quad version:

4Lz 4Lo 3F // 4S3T 4T 3A3T 3A1Lo3S 3Lz - BV: 109.83

4Lz 4Lo 3F // 4S3T 3A 4T3T3Lo 3A2Lo 3Lz - BV: 112.03

 

5-quad version:

4Lz 4Lo 3F // 4S3T 4T 3A2T 4T1Lo3S 3A - BV: 111.26

4Lz 4Lo 3F // 4S3T 4T1Lo3S 4T 3A2Lo 3A - BV: 111.81

4Lz 4Lo 3F // 4S2T 4T3T3Lo 4T 3A2Lo 3A - BV: 113.46 (alt. 4T2T and solo 4S)

 

Note: Add 0.22 BV to any layout where he repeats 4S instead of 4T

[Murieleirum]

Oh my... these layouts are borderline scary, with positive GOE for every element... he could completely smash the 230 score barrier.

(350 total, here Yuzu comes...)

 

Also, that last 4 quad version with 112.03 BV is probably the scariest to me (by scary I mean EXCITING). But somehow, I wouldn't want him to do both 4Lz and 3Lz in a program. I don't know, iI think it might confuse him too much. (Although he did say that if he were to do 4A, he would still keep the 3A... so I guess it depends on him hahah)

[xeyra]

8 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

Oh my... these layouts are borderline scary, with positive GOE for every element... he could completely smash the 230 score barrier.

(350 total, here Yuzu comes...)

 

Also, that last 4 quad version with 112.03 BV is probably the scariest to me (by scary I mean EXCITING). But somehow, I wouldn't want him to do both 4Lz and 3Lz in a program. I don't know, iI think it might confuse him too much. (Although he did say that if he were to do 4A, he would still keep the 3A... so I guess it depends on him hahah)

 

Yeah, that could be an interesting issue, though neither Boyang or Nathan seem to have any issues with 3Lz and 4Lz in the same program. And if he pops the 4Lz, the 3Lz will be replaced anyway by some repeat quad to make up points. 

 

Also, I don't think he'll risk a 3T3Lo combo because it's harder than just perfecting his 1Lo3S.

 

[Yatagarasu]

1 hour ago, xeyra said:

5-quad version:

4Lz 4Lo 3F // 4S3T 4T 3A2T 4T1Lo3S 3A - BV: 111.26

4Lz 4Lo 3F // 4S3T 4T1Lo3S 4T 3A2Lo 3A - BV: 111.81

4Lz 4Lo 3F // 4S2T 4T3T3Lo 4T 3A2Lo 3A - BV: 113.46 (alt. 4T2T and solo 4S)

 

Note: Add 0.22 BV to any layout where he repeats 4S instead of 4T

 

So going with what we know now, the possible repetition of Seimei, I'd go for 5 quads which is one of these three. I don't think it'd be the 4-3-3 version, too risky, especially if he's trying to do his 'high average' thing, and I think that is exactly what he's doing here. So either option 1 or 2 there IMO or something similar.

[Murieleirum]

1 minute ago, xeyra said:

 

Yeah, that could be an interesting issue, though neither Boyang or Nathan seem to have any issues with 3Lz and 4Lz in the same program. And if he pops the 4Lz, the 3Lz will be replaced anyway by some repeat quad to make up points. 

 

 

 

I pray every night that Olympic season may be a pop-free season. Pops have damaged his GOE+PCS considerably, this season... 

[xeyra]

3 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

So going with what we know now, the possible repetition of Seimei, I'd go for 5 quads which is one of these three. I don't think it'd be the 4-3-3 version, too risky, especially if he's trying to do his 'high average' thing, and I think that is exactly what he's doing here. So either option 1 or 2 there IMO or something similar.

 

Adding to those the earlier options I posted ages ago with the 3A2T instead of 3A2Lo.

 

4Lz 4Lo 3F // 4S3T 4T 4S 3A1Lo3S 3A2T - BV: 111.48 or use 4T2T and 3A or 3A2T and 4S1Lo3S

4Lz 4Lo 3F // 4Lo3T 4S 3A2T 4T1Lo3S 3A - BV: 113.13

 

I actually now want him to do the 3A2Lo combo just to change it up a bit for the judges. 

[EisElle]

4 minutes ago, xeyra said:

Also, I don't think he'll risk a 3T3Lo combo because it's harder than just perfecting his 1Lo3S.

plus he actually already landed it in competition in the second half

I'd say 1Lo3S is more likely, and I would kinda expect it in a 5 quad layout. Also I thought combo with 3Lo as final jump have higher risk of underrotation?