General Skating Chat

[xeyra]

13 minutes ago, meoima said:

Jackie Wong already jumps to conclusion that Nathan will do 4-4 next season. However, it does not make sense under the current system to do 4-4 cause it's too much risk and not enough rewards. 

 

 

I don't remember if Jackie was all 'omg potential backend -4T combo' when Shoma landed those 3A-4T.....

[meoima]

Just now, xeyra said:

 

I don't remember if Jackie was all 'omg potential backend -4T combo' when Shoma landed those 3A-4T.....

 

Shoma landed heavy UR 3A4T... I think Jackie sure knows Nathan has a better chance of landing fully rotated quads. 

[xeyra]

1 minute ago, meoima said:

Shoma landed heavy UR 3A4T... I think Jackie sure knows Nathan has a better chance of landing fully rotated quads. 

 

Landing a backend -4T combo would definitely open up a few doors, but the rewards aren't particularly high, yeah.

 

Just for fun, I did some calculations. Nathan's originally planned 6-quad layout for Worlds, with repeat 4F and 4Lz, was worth around 115.74 BV.

A 6-quad layout that goes something like 4Lz3T 4F 4S 4Lz // 4F2T2Lo 3F4T 3A 3Lz would be worth 120.45 BV, only about 2 BV points less than a 7-quad layout with 4Lo (which was around 122 BV, give or take).

And if were to add the 4Lo anyways as well as a 3F4T? Almost 127 BV. 

[meoima]

3 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

Landing a backend -4T combo would definitely open up a few doors, but the rewards aren't particularly high, yeah.

 

Just for fun, I did some calculations. Nathan's originally planned 6-quad layout for Worlds, with repeat 4F and 4Lz, was worth around 115.74 BV.

A 6-quad layout that goes something like 4Lz3T 4F 4S 4Lz // 4F2T2Lo 3F4T 3A 3Lz would be worth 120.45 BV, only about 2 BV points less than a 7-quad layout with 4Lo (which was around 122 BV, give or take).

And if were to add the 4Lo anyways as well as a 3F4T? Almost 127 BV. 

 

 

I highly doubt Nathan would do 3-4 or 4-4 cause it's not enough rewards. It is better to do quads as the first jumps in combo. I think it is more likely Nathan will do 6 quads with 4lz and 4F repeat OR he will add 4lo and have 7 quads. But there has been no news of Nathan trying out 4lo in that jump competition yet.

[xeyra]

2 minutes ago, meoima said:

I highly doubt Nathan would do 3-4 or 4-4 cause it's not enough rewards. It is better to do quads as the first jumps in combo. I think it is more likely Nathan will do 6 quads with 4lz and 4F repeat OR he will add 4lo and have 7 quads. But there has been no news of Nathan trying out 4lo in that jump competition yet.

 

I imagine 4-4 combos (and to a lesser degree 3-4) might become more popular the season after Olys, with one less jumping pass, when one is trying to maximize their points.

[meoima]

Just now, xeyra said:

 

I imagine 4-4 combos (and to a lesser degree 3-4) might become more popular the season after Olys, with one less jumping pass, when one is trying to maximize their points.

 

And at the moment, it seems 4-4 is not allowed to do in SP yet? Right @mcq, I haven't checked the rules.

[xeyra]

3 minutes ago, meoima said:

And at the moment, it seems 4-4 is not allowed to do in SP yet? Right @mcq, I haven't checked the rules.

 

The requirements are: 

Jump Combination: Double/Triple, Triple/Triple, Quad/Double, or Quad/Triple. So yeah, no 4-4 allowed in the SP. But nothing says it can't be done in the FS!

[mcq]

3 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

Landing a backend -4T combo would definitely open up a few doors, but the rewards aren't particularly high, yeah.

 

Just for fun, I did some calculations. Nathan's originally planned 6-quad layout for Worlds, with repeat 4F and 4Lz, was worth around 115.74 BV.

A 6-quad layout that goes something like 4Lz3T 4F 4S 4Lz // 4F2T2Lo 3F4T 3A 3Lz would be worth 120.45 BV, only about 2 BV points less than a 7-quad layout with 4Lo (which was around 122 BV, give or take).

And if were to add the 4Lo anyways as well as a 3F4T? Almost 127 BV. 

He'd likely won't do that, high risk low reward imo. It is easier to do quad separately, and he has yet to perform even a 5-quad program actually cleanly (he 2-footed his 3F landing at Nats; 4CC, worlds WTT is even more of a mess imo). That said, 4 is a piece of cake for him by now and probably 5-6 is more on the higher limit one. 

I'd argue 4 is commonplace for Yuzu too by now, he landed 4 from 4CC to WTT, it is just that his tendency to pop things hurt his score (Aside of the 4S issue).

[meoima]

Just now, xeyra said:

 

The requirements are: 

Jump Combination: Double/Triple, Triple/Triple, Quad/Double, or Quad/Triple. So yeah, no 4-4 allowed in the SP. But nothing says it can't be done in the FS!

 

The point for 4-4 is if they can do it in SP or not, cause under the current system, it does not worth much to do 4-4 in LP.

[xeyra]

2 minutes ago, mcq said:

He'd likely won't do that, high risk low reward imo. It is easier to do quad separately, and he has yet to perform even a 5-quad program actually cleanly (he 2-footed his 3F landing at Nats; 4CC, worlds WTT is even more of a mess imo). That said, 4 is a piece of cake for him by now and probably 5-6 is more on the higher limit one. 

I'd argue 4 is commonplace for Yuzu too by now, he landed 4 from 4CC to WTT, it is just that his tendency to pop things hurt his score (Aside of the 4S issue).

 

And he's also yet to land 6-quads successfully so we'll see if he even tries to go for 7. I also don't think he's going to do a -4T combo (regardless of what Jackie thinks) but I thought it'd be fun to calculate BVs anyways. 

[meoima]

1 hour ago, mcq said:

He'd likely won't do that, high risk low reward imo. It is easier to do quad separately, and he has yet to perform even a 5-quad program actually cleanly (he 2-footed his 3F landing at Nats; 4CC, worlds WTT is even more of a mess imo). That said, 4 is a piece of cake for him by now and probably 5-6 is more on the higher limit one. 

I'd argue 4 is commonplace for Yuzu too by now, he landed 4 from 4CC to WTT, it is just that his tendency to pop things hurt his score (Aside of the 4S issue).

It's funny how Yuzuru this season had same tendency to pop jump like Yuna before Vancouver... I think the injury after Boston did affect his mentality a lot. Before that he often rotated the jumps. But next season he will upgrade his layout so... we shall see. Hopefully it will turn out to be right in the end for Yuzuru. 

[yuzuangel]

8 minutes ago, meoima said:

It's funny how Yuzuru this season had same tendency to pop jump like Yuna before Vancouver... I think the injury after Boston did affect his mentality a lot. Before that he often rotated the jumps. But next season he will upgrade his layout so... we shall see. Hopefully it will turn out to be right in the end for Yuzuru. 

 

I heard that popping is a hard mental habit to fix once you start doing it. :/ 

 

The American girls also pop a lot. Like Gracie and Karen. The Russian girls seem like they'd rather fall than pop.

[meoima]

Just now, yuzuangel said:

 

I'm under the impression that popping is a hard habit to fix once you start doing it. I wish he rotates/falls rather than pops...

Well Yuna did fix that bad habit and landed all her jumps at Vancouver, WC 2013 and Sochi. I think Yuzuru will manage to as well.

and of course he will have an upgrade layout next season. The focus in technique will be shifted. 

[Anony]

My two cents on Yuzuru's recent popping habit. I think his injury from last season is probably the big reason. He mentioned when he first tried skating again, he couldn't even land singles and basically had to reinvent his technique as to not aggravate his injury, it wouldn't be a surprise if that bled over into competitions. 

 

Also the all edge jump(minus the -3T) SP probably isn't helping either.

[Yoa]

Can skaters do a jump sequence in a SP? Or can they only do a combination?