General Skating Chat

[beki]

I like the pride that Yuzuru has. He's not going to show us a questionable element. He would be embarrassed. I think that's what Shizuka meant when she said he was fastidious about his jumps.

[Altie]

Wasn't Shoma's flutz called at WTT ? And weren't Nathan's PC much lower than the rest of the season ?

 

I know WTT judging is a bit of a joke with all the happy candies, but who knows, judges and tech panels might see the light next year ?

[yuzuuu]

also I wanna say that Yuzu and boyang are progressing at a normal pace each year. Yuzu doesn't rush much and focuses on perfecting his elements and making sure he could execute them before implementing them. that's what I call smart and lasting progress + a whole package. Shoma and Nathan tho, they're both rushing and skipping the important middle parts, disrupting the growth process. for Nathan idk, but if he's being forced to do so, hopefully they stop and start focusing on his potential growth. For Shoma, he's obviously obsessed with Yuzu, looks like he'll do anything. Certaining not a smart choice nor a forward-looking one. I can only imagine his future :eh:

[xeyra]

also I wanna say that Yuzu and boyang are progressing at a normal pace each year. Yuzu doesn't rush much and focuses on perfecting his elements and making sure he could execute them before implementing them. that's what I call smart and lasting progress. Shoma and Nathan tho, they're both like rushing and skipping the important middle parts, disrupting the growth process. for Nathan idk, but if he's being forced to do so, hopefully they stop and start focusing on his potential growth. For Shoma, he's obviously obsessed with Yuzu, looks like he'll do anything. Certaining not a smart choice nor a forward-looking one. I can only imagine his future :eh:

I'm not sure if it's an obsession so much as a wish to surpass the one on top, who happens to be his own countryman. Though I do think with both being from Japan, it increases Shoma's ambition to surpass him now, now, now! Which leads to unfortunate decisions like trying to train a 4Lz when you have a terrible relationship with the 3Lz. There's a reason Yuzu isn't very keen on training a 4F.

[meoima]

also I wanna say that Yuzu and boyang are progressing at a normal pace each year. Yuzu doesn't rush much and focuses on perfecting his elements and making sure he could execute them before implementing them. that's what I call smart and lasting progress. Shoma and Nathan tho, they're both like rushing and skipping the important middle parts, disrupting the growth process. for Nathan idk, but if he's being forced to do so, hopefully they stop and start focusing on his potential growth. For Shoma, he's obviously obsessed with Yuzu, looks like he'll do anything. Certaining not a smart choice nor a forward-looking one. I can only imagine his future :eh:

I'm not sure if it's an obsession so much as a wish to surpass the one on top, who happens to be his own countryman. Though I do think with both being from Japan, it increases Shoma's ambition to surpass him now, now, now! Which leads to unfortunate decisions like trying to train a 4Lz when you have a terrible relationship with the 3Lz. There's a reason Yuzu isn't very keen on training a 4F.

I find it funny that it seems no one around Shoma (his coaches or anyone) tells Shoma that he has a Flutz and should not take it for granted.

And it seems they don't even think Shoma's 3.2F is problematic. I never see his improvement with that so-called "quad" at all.

At FSuniverse, people already see that and are like: "No way that is a quad. That is definitely NOT. And it's NOT even a FLip."

It is funny why they never try to improve that.

[Dara]

If I were Yuzuru when they showed him Shoma's 3.2Flutz that Shoma failed in practice, I would have cry or laugh like crazy because...

- it's wrong edge clear as daylight.

- pre rotation, and it's not even a toe jump, it's an edge jump almost because Shoma leaves the ice from the edge. He never has true toe jumps.

Bringing gif for anyone who haven't seen it yet http://imgur.com/kO4wm3i

[yuzuuu]

also I wanna say that Yuzu and boyang are progressing at a normal pace each year. Yuzu doesn't rush much and focuses on perfecting his elements and making sure he could execute them before implementing them. that's what I call smart and lasting progress. Shoma and Nathan tho, they're both like rushing and skipping the important middle parts, disrupting the growth process. for Nathan idk, but if he's being forced to do so, hopefully they stop and start focusing on his potential growth. For Shoma, he's obviously obsessed with Yuzu, looks like he'll do anything. Certaining not a smart choice nor a forward-looking one. I can only imagine his future :eh:

I'm not sure if it's an obsession so much as a wish to surpass the one on top, who happens to be his own countryman. Though I do think with both being from Japan, it increases Shoma's ambition to surpass him now, now, now! Which leads to unfortunate decisions like trying to train a 4Lz when you have a terrible relationship with the 3Lz. There's a reason Yuzu isn't very keen on training a 4F.

well in any case he's obsessed to be on top, and it obviously isn't a healthy motivation. As much as yuzu wanted to be on top when he was younger, he retained a mature mind-set and seeks to improve himself to win against himself. not continuously thinking about how to slaughter someone (worst, not in a very smart way) :smile: Also, I love that yuzu doesn't sit there and hope that people doesn't catch any mistakes, because he leaves none to be a caught :love:

[Hanmgse]

Wasn't Shoma's flutz called at WTT ? And weren't Nathan's PC much lower than the rest of the season ?

 

I know WTT judging is a bit of a joke with all the happy candies, but who knows, judges and tech panels might see the light next year ?

Nathan's PCS were low because he didn't deliver in the tech but once he does his marks should rise.

[xeyra]

also I wanna say that Yuzu and boyang are progressing at a normal pace each year. Yuzu doesn't rush much and focuses on perfecting his elements and making sure he could execute them before implementing them. that's what I call smart and lasting progress. Shoma and Nathan tho, they're both like rushing and skipping the important middle parts, disrupting the growth process. for Nathan idk, but if he's being forced to do so, hopefully they stop and start focusing on his potential growth. For Shoma, he's obviously obsessed with Yuzu, looks like he'll do anything. Certaining not a smart choice nor a forward-looking one. I can only imagine his future :eh:

I'm not sure if it's an obsession so much as a wish to surpass the one on top, who happens to be his own countryman. Though I do think with both being from Japan, it increases Shoma's ambition to surpass him now, now, now! Which leads to unfortunate decisions like trying to train a 4Lz when you have a terrible relationship with the 3Lz. There's a reason Yuzu isn't very keen on training a 4F.

well in any case he's obsessed to be on top, and it obviously isn't a healthy motivation. As much as yuzu wanted to be on top when he was younger, he retained a mature mind-set and seeks to improve himself to win against himself. not continuously thinking about how to slaughter someone (worst, not in a very smart way) :smile: Also, I love that yuzu doesn't sit there and hope that people doesn't catch any mistakes, because he leaves none to be a caught :love:

Do remember that back when Yuzu was younger and developing and up until the 2015/2016 season, there really was no need to insert a large number of quads in a program to get to the top. The motivations were different, the thinking was different, the skating attitudes were different. Then 2015/2016 happened, a mix of Boyang landing 4-quad FS with a 4Lz and Yuzu breaking records twice, and there was a paradigm shift. And suddenly to catch up you couldn't do it gradually, you had to get all your eggs in a basket, especially if you were an ambitious young senior. Shoma, Nathan and the young juniors coming into Senior this next season, are all part of this new paradigm.

[yuzuuu]

also I wanna say that Yuzu and boyang are progressing at a normal pace each year. Yuzu doesn't rush much and focuses on perfecting his elements and making sure he could execute them before implementing them. that's what I call smart and lasting progress. Shoma and Nathan tho, they're both like rushing and skipping the important middle parts, disrupting the growth process. for Nathan idk, but if he's being forced to do so, hopefully they stop and start focusing on his potential growth. For Shoma, he's obviously obsessed with Yuzu, looks like he'll do anything. Certaining not a smart choice nor a forward-looking one. I can only imagine his future :eh:

I'm not sure if it's an obsession so much as a wish to surpass the one on top, who happens to be his own countryman. Though I do think with both being from Japan, it increases Shoma's ambition to surpass him now, now, now! Which leads to unfortunate decisions like trying to train a 4Lz when you have a terrible relationship with the 3Lz. There's a reason Yuzu isn't very keen on training a 4F.

I find it funny that it seems no one around Shoma (his coaches or anyone) tells Shoma that he has a Flutz and should not take it for granted.

And it seems they don't even think Shoma's 3.2F is problematic. I never see his improvement with that so-called "quad" at all.

At FSuniverse, people already see that and are like: "No way that is a quad. That is definitely NOT. And it's NOT even a FLip."

It is funny why they never try to improve that.

haha a 4F that's neither a flip nor a quad. oh the sadness :rofl: yeah it does seem weird that no one cares about it, maybe they knew judges wouldn't care too, hmmm :think: also, if I'm not wrong, under rotation problems seems to be very common in Japanese skaters from the bigger skating cities? wonder why.

[OmNom]

Shoma and Nathan's approach could help quad their ways to the podium, but they're never going to be remembered in history as the greatest, among which Yuzu already is one. And I personally find it distasteful how much they seem to be okay with winning through subpar performances. If they actually do come out on top, it'll be such hollow victories

[xeyra]

Shoma and Nathan's approach could help quad their ways to the podium, but they're never going to be remembered in history as the greatest, among which Yuzu already is one. And I personally find it distasteful how much they seem to be okay with winning through subpar performances. If they actually do come out on top, it'll be such hollow victories

But not for them. They're ambitious youngsters. This is what they want. Nathan wants to win OGM so he can (probably) r**** and go study medicine; Shoma wants to get out from under Yuzu's shadow. And they want to win, as much as anyone else, and thus their strategy of choice. And if their strategies are rewarded, why would they change them just to satisfy someone else's idea of what a good victory would be?

[yuzuuu]

xeyra said:

Do remember that back when Yuzu was younger and developing and up until the 2015/2016 season, there really was no need to insert a large number of quads in a program to get to the top. The motivations were different, the thinking was different, the skating attitudes were different. Then 2015/2016 happened, a mix of Boyang landing 4-quad FS with a 4Lz and Yuzu breaking records twice, and there was a paradigm shift. And suddenly to catch up you couldn't do it gradually, you had to get all your eggs in a basket, especially if you were an ambitious young senior. Shoma, Nathan and the young juniors coming into Senior this next season, are all part of this new paradigm.

yes the periods are different but back when yuzu is just a senior, although there wasn't a need to add large no. of quads, there was a need to add quads and many could not do that. Yuzu needed to catch up and thus added quads, still he wasn't pushing himself to add more than the required to win. But Shoma and Nathan tho, they are trying to go beyond to secure a win and to stay on top regardless. Adjustments are necessary but not when it goes overboard and forgets about the essence. Honestly, I don't really know if I'm making sense. sorry haha :shifty:

[Dara]

Anyways, I've been meaning to ask something, not sure if it's the best place here for it. How many boots does Yuzu usually go through, do you guys know? Reading about how Nathan goes through a pair of boots every 1-2 months makes me wonder if this is normal or is it just because Nathan trains so many quads and/or seems to have heavier landings than Yuzu, Javi or Patrick?

 

I think it's hard to tell how many, cause unlike most of skaters he doesn't wear one pair until it falls aparts, then next pair and so on. According to Yoshida Toshinobu, person who sharpens his blades, Yuzu chooses several pairs that fit the best from boots send to him by maker (Edea) and uses them during the season. Every few weeks Yuzu sends Yoshida boots by air, Yoshida sharpens blades and sends back.

In article back in 2014 Yoshida said that each pair lasts for about 3 months for him, 4 pairs for one season.

[meoima]

I find it funny that it seems no one around Shoma (his coaches or anyone) tells Shoma that he has a Flutz and should not take it for granted.

And it seems they don't even think Shoma's 3.2F is problematic. I never see his improvement with that so-called "quad" at all.

At FSuniverse, people already see that and are like: "No way that is a quad. That is definitely NOT. And it's NOT even a FLip."

It is funny why they never try to improve that.

haha a 4F that's neither a flip nor a quad. oh the sadness :rofl: yeah it does seem weird that no one cares about it, maybe they knew judges wouldn't care too, hmmm :think: also, if I'm not wrong, under rotation problems seems to be very common in Japanese skaters from the bigger skating cities? wonder why.

And you know that people at FSuniverse care nothing about Yuzuru. It has always been me and Fay updating his fan fest. So FSuniverse people calling out Shoma's fake quads are "crazy Yuzuru's fans" according to Mathman from GS?

Oh by the way, Gkelly is also at FSuniverse and she knows of all those technical issues those top skaters have.

The Russian specialist who taught me knows as well. She just says the higher up ignore it. Because they can't risk the whole system being adjusted right now.

How disappointing is that... :rant: