[Removed][Translation] Brian Orser on Yuzuru’s 4Lo and their discussion after Skate Canada (Excerpts from Team Brian 2)

[yuzuangel]

My thoughts:

 

Yuzuru's 4L is first and foremost rehabilitation for his injury

 

I really like how Brian...acknowledged Yuzuru's natural ability xD Like, we all knew it, but it doesn't get talked about that much.

 

And honestly that part where Yuzu got too obsessed with the 4Lo and started training it like a kid who forgot how scoring worked was so cute xD

 

Anyway, a digression:

From the way I learned it, jumps are given base values because of their difficulty, and toe loop and salchow are the easiest because there's a lot of prerotation that's normal in those jumps (almost half a rotation is expected), whereas there's less prerotation when it comes to flip and lutz because it takes off and lands on the same foot. And the toe loop/salchow kind of "opens" in the direction of the jump so it's easier. The loop is somewhere in the middle. However, it seems having a toe pick assist probably makes the flip/lutz easier at least when it comes to quads, and at the point when you're doing 4 rotations, that little tiny bit of extra prerotation probably doesn't matter all that much, does it? And given how only Yuzu (and now, Shoma, but depending on prerotation...eh debatable) have landed the 4Lo in international competition, it's actually kinda odd that the loop is "lower" in base value and has a perception of being "easier." The point values of jumps seems a bit off, IMO, like just because a single toe loop is easier than a single salchow (is it even?) doesn't mean a quad toe loop is easier than a quad salchow...but that's the point system we have at hand so that's how it'll be scored, I guess. Also, the base values aren't even so different (reflecting that it really isn't clearly harder) but the public/judges' perceptions (and their GOEs) seem to believe otherwise...

 

--

 

Anyway, still reading ^^

 

 

 

 

[Ikaro]

Muchas gracias por traducir esta parte del libro. Siempre es interesante leer lo que piensa Brian.

[Yatagarasu]

21 minutes ago, yuzuangel said:

However, it seems having a toe pick assist probably makes the flip/lutz easier at least when it comes to quads,

 

When it comes to the lutz, the thing that makes the jump difficult is the counterrotation. If you take a look at the take off, the entry is counterrotated compared to the entry edge. The direction of the rotation itself is opposite from the direction the skater's body was moving on the ice. So basically it's not 'natural', but against it. 
Not to say there isn't a point in the quad loop being more difficult than what it is worth right now in BV.

[kaeryth]

2 hours ago, gladi said:

Although this was a completely different course of action from my strategy, [which was rooted in] my hope for Yuzuru to smile happily at Pyeongchang Olympics, I decided anyway to let Yuzuru do as he wished until [he landed 4Lo for the first time in competition].

 

Then, Yuzuru who has thus far silently trained the quad loop without speaking a word of his own opinions at all,  looking like he’d made up his mind, opened his mouth.

 

“Up until Skate Canada, it is true that I’ve been practicing the quad loop a lot. But that was because, to me, the quad loop is an [integral] part of the performance. To me, a program without the jumps landed is not a total package."

 

That was unprecedented. This was the first time that Yuzuru had put his opinions clearly into words to such an extent. He wasn’t merely stubbornly focused on the quad loop––indeed, Yuzuru had Yuzuru’s own theory.

 

Upon expressing our opinions to each other, [we realized] the goal we were aiming for was the same.

 

“Succeed on all the quads and, on top of that, produce a sublime performance.”

Thank you so much for the translation. Aaaah... I'm getting emotional here...  Same, Brian... Same..

 

I'm glad that they've finally been able to communicate well that they've started to see that they both have the same vision - they just have a different approach to it.

And I'm so glad Yuzuru has finally been able to convey his feelings to Brian. Excuse me while I sob in a corner now.

 

 

 

[gladi]

1 minute ago, kaeryth said:

Thank you so much for the translation. Aaaah... I'm getting emotional here...  Same, Brian... Same..

 

I'm glad that they've finally been able to communicate well that they've started to see that they both have the same vision - they just have a different approach to it.

And I'm so glad Yuzuru has finally been able to convey his feelings to Brian. Excuse me while I sob in a corner now.

 

 

 

Right? For all the interviews Yuzuru had done where he went on and on (and we translated on and on x_x) about all his thoughts and philosophy, really it was so important for all that to be conveyed to the team and Brian. Which is why I think the presence of Tracy and other coaches are so important.

 

We should FedEx reams and reams of translated interviews to Brian XD

[kiches]

Thank you @gladi for translating this excerpt! What I would've given to be a fly on the wall of that meeting they had in Toronto. 

 

My key takeaway was this, both Brian and Yuzu had the same goal and destination, but their idea on the best path to it was different initially. 

 

Another interesting thing that I hope both sides learned from was that communication is key. To hear Brian say it was the first time Yuzu voiced his opinion in such a clear and straight way about the loop gives me hope that the training is much more efficient and in sync than ever before, I'm sure this is why it appeared to bear more fruit after Skate Canada as well. While they may have initially had a difference of opinion I can see that it came from a place of love and caring. 

[yuzuangel]

17 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

When it comes to the lutz, the thing that makes the jump difficult is the counterrotation. If you take a look at the take off, the entry is counterrotated compared to the entry edge. The direction of the rotation itself is opposite from the direction the skater's body was moving on the ice. So basically it's not 'natural', but against it. 
Not to say there isn't a point in the quad loop being more difficult than what it is worth right now in BV.

Yeah you're right, that does make the lutz difficult (and it does feel very unnatural on the ice - I think when I tried the lutz for the first time, I tried to jump clockwise). Compared to the flip, though...it's debatable. The BV difference is really small but perception affects things like GOEs and PCS.

[Yatagarasu]

10 minutes ago, yuzuangel said:

Yeah you're right, that does make the lutz difficult (and it does feel very unnatural on the ice - I think when I tried the lutz for the first time, I tried to jump clockwise). Compared to the flip, though...it's debatable. The BV difference is really small but perception affects things like GOEs and PCS.

 

Yes, I think that's a pretty normal thing to do, when going for the Lutz for the first time. And of course, there's the natural impulse to try and pre-rotate and thus slip onto the inside edge, and flutz. 
I guess I am not too fussed over the tiny difference in terms of BV but perception, goodness yes. Though that's a whole different conversation and not for this place. But yes, very much so.

[Puniyo]

I finally got time to sit down and read this beauty. 

 

I must say that I share the opinion of jumps being part of the performance and not just part of the technical content. A program, either SP or FS, without the jumps properly landed, is not the best program in my opinion. There might be great spins and even greater steps and choreography, but the thought of seeing a fall or a pop will always prevail in your mind and you'll always remember it, like 'That was his best performance but it's a pity that he missed that 4S.' Yes, it might be a lovely program, but not the perfect or the best performance. I think Yuzuru really wants and tries to achieve this level of perfection every single time. Now that's a really high hurdle that he needs to jump. 

 

I'm glad that Brian also got a better understanding of Yuzuru and his apparently perfection-seeking mentality. Like others might have mentioned, Brian does not have that much of experience when it comes to coaching but people learn with mistakes and time. I believe they have now achieved a good level of understanding (both ways) and that the team will find the best way to prepare Yuzu and tame his occasional recklessness when it comes to quads. I remember reading once that Brian saw Yuzuru as his younger self, so their ideas are actually the same (or quite similar). It's just that both of them have a different way to express them. 

 

EDIT: the articles makes me wonder why the 4Loop has a lower base value when it is described as being a more demanding (somehow) jump with timing issues that the other jumps do not necessarily have (or are easier to conquer). 

[EisElle]

As always, deepest thanks @gladi for your translation

Ok long rambling to come, be warned

19 hours ago, gladi said:

Upon expressing our opinions to each other, [we realized] the goal we were aiming for was the same.

 

“Succeed on all the quads and, on top of that, produce a sublime performance.”

 

It was just that Yuzuru gave more weight to the importance of jumps. Because that didn’t align with my opinion, he had kept quiet about his own. But this time, Yuzuru insisted with resolve and an understanding that it might turn into an argument, “Jumps are not a part of technique, but a part of performance.” He told me that, with this train of thought in mind, he’d started from practicing jumps in order to hone his performance.

 

I find really interesting that there can be such different approaches – start from the big elements first and then weave them into a whole vs getting the "background" first and then fit in the other things–. Tbh before reading this I would have thought getting the jumps first is the more common route, not because as Yuzu thinks "jumps are part of the performance"(this is so Yuzu!) but more cynically because a jump is worth a lot more than other elements. In a way what we've seen in this last season was that, more often than not, prioritizing the jumps is indeed the road to big scores, the rest kinda followed from landing them. So it's interesting that Brian thought otherwise.

 

19 hours ago, gladi said:

By getting down to our real intentions, we made our purpose clear, and I also felt mentally refreshed. It has been the fifth year since we formed a team with Yuzuru. I knew he trusted me and I also saw Yuzuru as the best partner from the bottom of my heart. There are many things in a relationship between the coach and the athlete––misunderstanding each other, disagreeing in opinions, and then going hand in hand once more. In this kind of relationship, we learn from each other.

 

this is the part that I liked the most.

All in all, it was good that Yuzuru persisted (resilience is his defining trait, after all) and it is also good that Brian honestly expressed his thoughts. They needed to talk, to hear one the thoughts of the other. It sounds like a cliché, but I believe dialogue is the base of a healthy relationship. Trusting someone doesn't mean blind accepting everything, but rather to have the certainty that the other has your best interests in mind even if he disagrees with you, and also having the courage to speak your mind and stand your point if you feel it's right.

 

Because us faithful (and hungry) fans read every single snippet of interview, sometimes we take for granted that Yuzuru’s philosophy is universally known. Language is still a barrier to him when it comes to express the depth and complexity of his analyses and maybe he didn’t even thought it was necessary to explain his actions. Maybe he thought they were obivious, or maybe he was super-focused in his pursuit and he didn’t realized he had to address Brian’s worries. Maybe he avoided openly voicing his disagreement with his coach because he hoped things would smooth out  once he finally tackled the jump and could back up his own vision with some concrete result. 

It looks like there was a certain lack of communication in the earlier months of the season (which of course could also be a trail from Boston and all that gloom). But Yuzu and the team felt they needed to sit down and talk, which means they wanted to overcome that “barrier”.

 

Yuzuru has heaps of talent and has very strong opinions, too. I think that if he doesn't believe wholeheartedly in something he can't truly put his heart into it. So in this sense he isn't "easy" to manage. Yet he isn't perfect (very close though). Sometimes he needs another perspective. What Brian said about the higher risk of strain and injury when Yuzu gets tired is certainly true. Glad that someone is there to remind Yuzu of that! It took years to our alien to finally understand he can’t always rely on his monstrous willpower!

I'm sure Yuzu was indeed burning from desire to land that first ratified 4Lo, too (maybe he had already in mind Dick Button's accomplishments). And he hates losing, so of course he wanted to "catch up" with the 4 quads, especially after having faced ugly months of struggles, which were not only physical but emotional too. Plus there was the external pressure: we fans got annoyed whenever people sounded like dismissing Yuzu as "past news", I can't even imagine how Yuzuru may have felt about that, on top of his own doubts.

 

That he managed to overcome all of these is truly amazing and a credit to both his strength and the support he had. He and his team talked, they understood each other and worked together.

Yuzu's FS at Worlds was a proof of character, it was his redemption in the eyes of those who wanted to write him off, his overcoming of all the past hardships (sweet that it was thanks to his underestimated LP.... the SP though). It was heroic and legendary.

In Italy there is a saying: "chi la dura la vince", it literally means "the one who persists wins" (but try to say it with pride and a lot of smugness). It applies very well to Yuzuru (quite a lot and quite often I'd say!).

So I'm glad that his team is the kind of team that doesn’t forces its view. Neither one too lax nor one too strict, I think, would have allowed him to develop his full potential. “Constructive criticism” is the way with Yuzu-the skating-geek. Make him use that big brain of his! 

 

(and being Yuzu the epitome of Challenge, I can totally believe Brian has learned a lot from coaching him too)

 

 

[Lunna]

Thanks a lot for translating such interesting piece! @gladi

It's great that we can hear the thoughts from the both sides - the coach and the athlete. It's not like anybody is wrong here - just different approach to the same goal. So it's great that Yuzu and Brian finally had this conversation and could understand each other better.

21 часов назад , gladi said:

But Yuzuru has a very stubborn personality. Until he succeeded with the 4Lo for the first time [in competition], I thought he would probably just turn a deaf ear to whatever I said. The title of “world’s first” was right before his eyes and he also had the physical ability––as an athlete, that was a natural thing [to want]. Although this was a completely different course of action from my strategy, [which was rooted in] my hope for Yuzuru to smile happily at Pyeongchang Olympics, I decided anyway to let Yuzuru do as he wished until [he landed 4Lo for the first time in competition].

OK, I laughed a little at that  I like how Brian is flexible and not too authoritative with his students, he's not the type "do as I said and that's it", he tries to convey the right thoughts to the sportsman and knows when he has no chance to succeed 

22 часов назад , gladi said:

It was not just about scoring. I was worried about Yuzuru's injury as well.

I think this and all the speech about importance of stamina training is my fave part. It's like of course we all know that a coach must think about athletes health during training but to hear about it directly from Brian is in a way reassuring... 

[Lunna]

21 часов назад , Fay said:

Which makes me think this is why H&L is a hard program to take in unless the jumps are perfect - Yuzu aims at being nearly ethereal there, like the rustle of leaves in the wind. The magic gets broken if he fluffs something. But god, did it work in that perfect skate... - which I watch daily a few times.

Yes, sometimes there're programmes where even a mistake on the jump (if not too much) doesn't distract you a lot, but with H&L... OK, even with mistakes it was a beautiful programme but only when skated clean it became magical - when nothing distracted you from the smooth flow of the programme. “Jumps are not a part of technique, but a part of performance” - that's all about H&L

[xeyra]

I wanted to say something about all of these thoughts of Brian but I think everyone has conveyed everything so well I'd just be repeating what's been said. We know more was said in that conference room between Yuzu, Brian, Tracy and whoever else was there than we will ever know, but I'm so very glad about the outcome and the new understanding between Yuzu and his TCC team. 5 years in the making, of which parts were spent apart in Japan or sick/injured or the language barrier didn't allow for. 

 

Winning at Helsinki was, I think, fundamental for Yuzu. Actually, I think maybe just getting that clean H&L was the most important part, because I think if he'd gone into that competition in the best shape he'd ever been in his life, after finally achieving a true understanding with his coach, and still not managed to do the FS performance he worked so hard for in the most important competition of the season, the one he's been failing for the past couple of years... yeah.... so, I am very glad of this outcome. 

 

Thank you so much for all your amazing translations, @gladi. What would be of us non-Japanese speaking fans if we didn't have people like you making all of these things known to us. 

[Murieleirum]

22 hours ago, Fay said:

I might be mistaken, I might read my own ideas and feelings into it, but I think Brian got pretty emotional himself when he was recounting this episode. I think last season was an emotional rollercoaster for both of them...

 

I don't think it was just your ideas and your feelings. I perceived the same thing. I felt like, the way Brian recounted the episode... he himself felt emotional and proud when he realized that him and Yuzuru were thinking along the same lines all along. 

He was worried that Yuzuru might have been influenced by the quad race by the youngsters. He even feared Yuzuru's mindset might have been the same. Yuzuru proved him wrong, and at the same time opened up about his feelings and about his ideal skating, in a way that was probably new to Brian.

I feel incredibly happy and giggly if I think that their bond, as coach and student, has become so strong and solid thanks to the hardships of this past year.

[gladi]

9 minutes ago, xeyra said:

Winning at Helsinki was, I think, fundamental for Yuzu. Actually, I think maybe just getting that clean H&L was the most important part, because I think if he'd gone into that competition in the best shape he'd ever been in his life, after finally achieving a true understanding with his coach, and still not managed to do the FS performance he worked so hard for in the most important competition of the season, the one he's been failing for the past couple of years... so, I am very glad of this outcome. 

 

Definitely, as he himself recounted in Ice Jewels 6, he was able to say to himself at the end of WC FS that he went the right direction. And as Brian said, also in Ice Jewels 6, Yuzuru is in the most ideal position, going into Olympics as reigning world champion. It probably also gave himself a lot of answers/data. Sometimes I want to be a fly on a wall and get a complete picture of what he has to face, but then I really don't. I am enough anxious about him as is. So overall, I enjoy reading and thinking about what he and his team are willing to share with us.  I think, as long as he has something he could pick out from his performance, he would have continued placing the responsibility on himself and his execution. So I must say, to the extent that I found his performance underscored, I wonder if it weren't a big push towards his program choice for next season. 

 

Thanks for all the posts, so many good thoughts. Please keep sharing with me, all of you  I enjoy the conversation so much and that's why it's worth translating after all.