I'm a bit tired from twitter, so i might spend more time here  I'm sorry to see two great translators go!!  It's always like that!!  One or few ppl ruin it for the general kind!!  I'm in another fandom and I've seen similar thing happen again and again!!  We should appreciate translators because they are doing it out of kindness and for free, spending a huge amount of their private time!!  Or else either stay clueless in the fandom or learn the language yourself!!  I did the latter, but Japanese is not an easy language to learn and understand by yourself!!  I can understand basic conversations.. but still grateful to translators who can explain specific word or term, or even a cultural point!!  Hope both will calm down and come back because both love Yuzuru so much!!

 

Anyway.. -I'm not an expert in rules and scoring- but I wanted to know wouldn't it be more efficient to score each step and transition individually!?  Like the more transitions you have the more points you get?!  Won't this force skaters to refine their skating skills?! -there may be a case of loading but won't that effect their other elements like jumps and spins so they would put what they reasonably can perform!!  I know ISU will never do that though  they only want to gift medals to strong feds!!

9 hours ago, Melodie said:

On a personal note, learning from this, I probably won't engage in translating stuff from my mother tongue to English, just to be on the safe side with people.

 

We are all living in a stressful world. No need to add more stress to ourselves and others.

I'm so sad to hear you say that, but I totally understand why! Translators have been so kind to non-Japanese speakers and the least we could do is always be polite and courteous even if it is felt something hurtful has been said or implied - yes it should be checked out privately as you said Melodie.

Poor Shu-pa, to be abused in that way; such a lovely presence on an increasingly hostile Twitter...we will miss them a lot.

2 hours ago, Orsa2017 said:

Anyway.. -I'm not an expert in rules and scoring- but I wanted to know wouldn't it be more efficient to score each step and transition individually!?  Like the more transitions you have the more points you get?!  Won't this force skaters to refine their skating skills?! -there may be a case of loading but won't that effect their other elements like jumps and spins so they would put what they reasonably can perform!!  I know ISU will never do that though  they only want to gift medals to strong feds!!

 

This is tricky, because TR is not just about the number of transitions, but rather the difficulty and quality of the transitions (skating skills) and their matching with the music (composition/ musical phrasing).

You can have fewer transitions in a program that are all done with the highest quality of execution like one spiral that lasts 7-10 seconds and is executed on clean deep edges with excellent body position and matching the musical structure. That should get a higher TR score than 20 random steps and turns, that might be difficult but are executed with sloppy quality and no connection with the music.

 

 

EDIT

My suggestion is to change the current judging scale for program components to a cumulative system like the TES scoring, with separate scores for all aspects. Example: Instead of a range from 0.25 to 10.00 for composition (CO), the judges give scores from 0-3 for

1. global concept and leitmotif of the program (if there is any)
2. structure of the program (and music edit)
3. ice coverage and logic of the skating pattern
4. number of rinksides addressed with the skating (0 points if the skater only performs to the judges' side, and full 3 points for a performance to all four rinksides)
5. distribution and placement of the elements on the ice surface (if all jumps are executed in the same or the judges' dead corner, 0 points)
6. matching of the elements with the musical phrasing (if a spin starts in the middle of the chorus and ends halfway during a verse or the bridge, that's poor phrasing)
7. matching of the transitions with the musical phrasing

7x3 points makes a max. of 21 points for composition (CO) and ca. 100 points for all components in total. In the SP you can factor this score with 0.5, so 10.5 points for composition and ca. 50 points for all 5 program components.

 

Of course, such detailed PCS scoring is only possible with a split panel. If AI scoring was fully utilized for the scoring of jumps, spins, steps, ice coverage and musical interpretation (rhythm and volume), we would only need 3-4 judges in total who take a look at the performance and composition/ logical construction of the program and that's it.

sorta OT but i wish the pooh rain could come back...I understand why it can't exist under the current circumstances but one can hope 

12 hours ago, rockstaryuzu said:

That's harder than it sounds rn.

 

12 hours ago, Melodie said:

I know, a lot of conditions must be met, but provided that these conditions are met, they should be able to enter Beijing to meet their athletes there without quarantine, since they are the coaches. 

 

I may be wrong, but I think that @rockstaryuzu was saying that not getting Covid is harder than it sounds right now considering the frightening rate at which the Omicron variant is spreading.

37 minutes ago, Geo1 said:

 

 

I may be wrong, but I think that @rockstaryuzu was saying that not getting Covid is harder than it sounds right now considering the frightening rate at which the Omicron variant is spreading.

Yes, that's right. We seem to be in a situation where  no matter how hard you try, you could still get it. 

Asahi Shimbun "Witnesses of the Legend"

 

No. 6  4回転半、始まりは…羽生結弦が兄貴と慕う無良崇人さんが明かす秘話

The beginning of 4A -  Takahito Mura, whom Yuzuru Hanyu adores like a brother, reveals the secret story

 

https://www.asahi.com/articles/ASPDP5QMGPDDUTQP022.html?iref=pc_spo_winspo_fskate_top_list_n

 

「ジャンプに関して、一番面倒を見てくれた先輩。頼れる兄貴分」

2018年平昌五輪で2連覇を飾った羽生結弦が五輪後の同年4月、ファンのために作り上げた感謝の凱旋（がいせん）報告イベント「Continues～with　Wings～（コンティニューズ・ウィズ・ウィングス）」。

羽生自身が影響を受けたというトップスケーターや振付師、指導者たちが出演した。その1人が無良崇人さん（30）だった。冒頭の言葉は、羽生が無良さんを紹介した際のコメントだ。

「面倒みたっていうほどではないですけどね」と4学年上の無良さんは謙遜する。18年3月に現役引退するまで羽生とは様々な大会で競演し、親交を温めてきた。

無良さんが羽生のことを知ったのは自身が合宿や振り付けで仙台のリンクに行った時だという。

「何年だったか覚えてないくらいですけど、彼がノービスとかだったのかな。その当時から、もう転びながらでもずっとジャンプを跳んでいて、ガツガツと練習しているイメージがありました。転んでも転んでもずっとやっているイメージがすごくあります」

試合で初めて羽生を認識したのは07年11月に仙台市体育館で行われた全日本ジュニア選手権だったという。この大会、無良さんが優勝したが、当時12歳だった羽生は存在感を見せつけた。フリーは1位。ノービス選手として初めて全日本ジュニアの表彰台（3位）に上がった。

"He is my senpai who has taken care of me the most when it comes to jumps. He's a big brother I can rely on."

In April 2018, after Yuzuru Hanyu won the PyeongChang Olympics for the second consecutive time, he held a triumphant event called "Continues with Wings" for his fans.

The event featured top skaters, choreographers, and instructors that Hanyu himself had been influenced by. One of them was Takahito Mura (30). The words at the beginning of this article are Hanyu's comment when he introduced Mura.

"I didn't take care of him so much as he says," says Mura with humility, who is four years older than Hanyu.

He had competed with Hanyu in various competitions until he retired in March 2018, and the two have maintained a close friendship.

Mura first heard of Hanyu when he went to the rink in Sendai for training camp and choreography.

"I don't even remember exactly what year it was, but I think it was when he was in Novice category. and I had an image of him practicing so hard, jumping all the time, even falling again and again." 

The first time he recognized Hanyu in a competition was at the Japanese Junior Nationals held in Sendai City Gymnasium in November 2007. Although Mura won it, Hanyu, who was 12 years old at the time, showed his presence. He placed first in the free skating, and became the first Novice skater to reach the podium of the Japanese Junior Nationals (3rd place).

 

I will post the summary of my translation of the rest of the paid article tomorrow, as it is quite a volume.

 

This post has been tagged by yuzuangel as [NEWS].

What if the pooh rain went straight up in the air and remained in the stands?  Each side of the arena could let it fly while Yuzu is taking his bows in their direction.

3 minutes ago, SuzyQ said:

Asahi Shimbun "Witnesses of the Legend"

 

No. 6  4回転半、始まりは…羽生結弦が兄貴と慕う無良崇人さんが明かす秘話

The beginning of 4A -  Takahito Mura, whom Yuzuru Hanyu adores like a brother, reveals the secret story

 

「ジャンプに関して、一番面倒を見てくれた先輩。頼れる兄貴分」

2018年平昌五輪で2連覇を飾った羽生結弦が五輪後の同年4月、ファンのために作り上げた感謝の凱旋（がいせん）報告イベント「Continues～with　Wings～（コンティニューズ・ウィズ・ウィングス）」。

羽生自身が影響を受けたというトップスケーターや振付師、指導者たちが出演した。その1人が無良崇人さん（30）だった。冒頭の言葉は、羽生が無良さんを紹介した際のコメントだ。

「面倒みたっていうほどではないですけどね」と4学年上の無良さんは謙遜する。18年3月に現役引退するまで羽生とは様々な大会で競演し、親交を温めてきた。

無良さんが羽生のことを知ったのは自身が合宿や振り付けで仙台のリンクに行った時だという。

「何年だったか覚えてないくらいですけど、彼がノービスとかだったのかな。その当時から、もう転びながらでもずっとジャンプを跳んでいて、ガツガツと練習しているイメージがありました。転んでも転んでもずっとやっているイメージがすごくあります」

試合で初めて羽生を認識したのは07年11月に仙台市体育館で行われた全日本ジュニア選手権だったという。この大会、無良さんが優勝したが、当時12歳だった羽生は存在感を見せつけた。フリーは1位。ノービス選手として初めて全日本ジュニアの表彰台（3位）に上がった。

"He is my senpai who has taken care of me the most when it comes to jumps. He's a big brother I can rely on."

In April 2018, after Yuzuru Hanyu won the PyeongChang Olympics for the second consecutive time, he held a triumphant event called "Continues with Wings" for his fans.

The event featured top skaters, choreographers, and instructors that Hanyu himself had been influenced by. One of them was Takahito Mura (30). The words at the beginning of this article are Hanyu's comment when he introduced Mura.

"I didn't take care of him so much as he says," says Mura with humility, who is four years older than Hanyu.

He had competed with Hanyu in various competitions until he retired in March 2018, and the two have maintained a close friendship.

Mura first heard of Hanyu when he went to the rink in Sendai for training camp and choreography.

"I don't even remember exactly what year it was, but I think it was when he was in Novice category. and I had an image of him practicing so hard, jumping all the time, even falling again and again." 

The first time he recognized Hanyu in a competition was at the Japanese Junior Nationals held in Sendai City Gymnasium in November 2007. Although Mura won it, Hanyu, who was 12 years old at the time, showed his presence. He placed first in the free skating, and became the first Novice skater to reach the podium of the Japanese Junior Nationals (3rd place).

 

I will post the summary of my translation of the rest of the paid article tomorrow, as it is quite a volume.

 

Thank you so much for translation! 

1 hour ago, Henni147 said:

 

This is tricky, because TR is not just about the number of transitions, but rather the difficulty and quality of the transitions (skating skills) and their matching with the music (composition/ musical phrasing).

You can have fewer transitions in a program that are all done with the highest quality of execution like one spiral that lasts 7-10 seconds and is executed on clean deep edges with excellent body position and matching the musical structure. That should get a higher TR score than 20 random steps and turns, that might be difficult but are executed with sloppy quality and no connection with the music.

 

 

EDIT

My suggestion is to change the current judging scale for program components to a cumulative system like the TES scoring, with separate scores for all aspects. Example: Instead of a range from 0.25 to 10.00 for composition (CO), the judges give scores from 0-3 for

1. global concept and leitmotif of the program (if there is any)
2. structure of the program (and music edit)
3. ice coverage and logic of the skating pattern
4. number of rinksides addressed with the skating (0 points if the skater only performs to the judges' side, and full 3 points for a performance to all four rinksides)
5. distribution and placement of the elements on the ice surface (if all jumps are executed in the same or the judges' dead corner, 0 points)
6. matching of the elements with the musical phrasing (if a spin starts in the middle of the chorus and ends halfway during a verse or the bridge, that's poor phrasing)
7. matching of the transitions with the musical phrasing

7x3 points makes a max. of 21 points for composition (CO) and ca. 100 points for all components in total. In the SP you can factor this score with 0.5, so 10.5 points for composition and ca. 50 points for all 5 program components.

 

Of course, such detailed PCS scoring is only possible with a split panel. If AI scoring was fully utilized for the scoring of jumps, spins, steps, ice coverage and musical interpretation (rhythm and volume), we would only need 3-4 judges in total who take a look at the performance and composition/ logical construction of the program and that's it.

Thank you for replying & information 

 

Your suggestion is really interesting; but in case AI was introduced, isn't it better to get rid of the judges totally  I lost trust in them!!  Like number 3, 4 & 5 can be done by AI, can it?!  I feel like 1, 2, 6 & 7 will be totally ignored by the judges when it comes to favorites, and can use it against weaker feds!!  And it should be judged by a specialist (musician?) but even this there would be bias!!

 

If there were sensors in the skater's blade & part of the body, can't AI do all? 

8 minutes ago, guiltypleasure said:

What if the pooh rain went straight up in the air and remained in the stands?  Each side of the arena could let it fly while Yuzu is taking his bows in their direction.

Nice thought! but I still wonder why Pooh rain is banned from the ice - my understanding from studies quoted in the press is that the risk of transmission of coronavirus from surfaces is extremely low to non existent - it is an air borne virus, so I don't understand why Pooh rain is considered a risk at all? Anyone else know?

 

1 hour ago, Skrimblo_iced said:

sorta OT but i wish the pooh rain could come back...I understand why it can't exist under the current circumstances but one can hope 

Maybe if Chinese fans asked, they can do it in the Olympic, by adding safety methods to do it.. i don't know.. but then they need flower boys and girls, that's risky!!  Maybe let a special zamboni gather them!!   

27 minutes ago, Orsa2017 said:

Thank you for replying & information 

 

Your suggestion is really interesting; but in case AI was introduced, isn't it better to get rid of the judges totally  I lost trust in them!!  Like number 3, 4 & 5 can be done by AI, can it?!  I feel like 1, 2, 6 & 7 will be totally ignored by the judges when it comes to favorites, and can use it against weaker feds!!  And it should be judged by a specialist (musician?) but even this there would be bias!!

 

If there were sensors in the skater's blade & part of the body, can't AI do all? 

 

Yes, exactly. 3, 4 and 5 can be checked with digital tools. So the CO component is measurable to almost 50%. Skating skills are measurable to 100%, jumps and spins to 95% (only their matching with the musical phrasing is not quantifiable). The number, difficulty and quality of transitions can be measured (only the matching of the musical phrasing not). So ca. 80% can be done with machines. In interpretation, the matching of tempo, rhythm and volume/intensity can be measured, to some extent even melody. So ca. 75-80% (Timbre, tonality and vocals/ lyrics is difficult without human judging). And performance is impossible to quantify.

 

Like you said: the human judges need to be experts for music theory and all types of performing arts (dancing, singing, acting, playing instruments etc). And they need to have a broad knowledge about all types of music pieces, genres and dance styles. That should be their no. 1 job. The rest could be done by AI and other digital tools. Of course, they should have extended knowledge about skating, jumping and spinning as well to judge the skaters' limits, i.e. what can be realized on ice and what not.

 

PS: I wouldn't be too worried about bias if the judges' only job was to evaluate the performance, musical phrasing and logical construction of the program. That makes up less than 15% of the total score and if there's a requirement of a very precise breakdown/ reasoning, they can't do very much.

Keep in mind: in the current system, the judges decide about 80-90% of the final score. They can even manipulate the base value of the technical elements like the full invalidation of Yuzu's sit spin at Nationals last year.

31 minutes ago, guiltypleasure said:

What if the pooh rain went straight up in the air and remained in the stands?  Each side of the arena could let it fly while Yuzu is taking his bows in their direction.

What if after each program they put out a net that catches them all?