General Yuzuru Chat

[MrPudding]

2 minutes ago, axelnojutsu said:

The saddest bit is that in the end I doubt it will even matter if they do and it'll all come down to tech score, there's just too little points to be gained in PCs comparatively 

 

But Yuzu would probably increase his program if Nathan scores higher even if he does go clean right..? Would he?

[axelnojutsu]

5 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

Except 4 quads isn't playing it safe, or is it? a 4 quads FS is currently the world record, and it was even underscored. 

 

I don't know, this talk makes me a little gloomy... as if Yuzu would feel like he can't keep up with the sport and continue to push it forward if there are people who do more quads than him, when in reality these people do less than half of his skating when they're not jumping.

 

Going clean is better for the health, is better for the mind, is better for the performance, which are three things Yuzuru cares a lot about. If he can go clean both SP and FS with 4 quads in the long, and break the +340 barrier, I'm fine with that. 

 

But since pushing the sport forward also means a lot to Yuzu, he will probably try to do 5 quads in the long and still pursue the same kind of consistency. And if we are lucky enough, we're gonna see exactly that.

I agree that he's doing more - I just don't think that's being reflected well in the scores right now.
I don't want all quads everything and I more than anything hope for a clean and beautiful performance from Yuzu but I can't help but worry if it'll be enough to win 

sorry for being so negative

[xeyra]

25 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

With this kind of future, it seems hard for Yuzu not to bring 5 quads in. Although I'd rather he kept 4 and added 4Lz. 

 

23 minutes ago, MrPudding said:

 

I think he'll do 5 quads.. I mean Nathan could be doing 5/6 quads so yuzu really have to fight for it 

 

20 minutes ago, Danibellerika said:

 Nate could try up to 7 of them.  So A game is needed. 

 

I think a 4 different quad program with two 3Ts is a more realistic idea, with the possibility of changing the 3A1Lo3S into a 4T1Lo3S if he needs a 5th quad, in case Nathan goes for 7 quads. But I *think* a 4Lz 4Lo 3F // 4S3T 4T 3A3T 3A1Lo3S 3Lz can be very competitive against Nathan's proposed 2x4Lz 2x4F 6-quad layout at Worlds (109ish against 115ish BV) due to GOEs and PCS, and against Shoma if he also brings a 4Lz. Might not be against a 7-quad layout, if Nathan survives training such a thing. But that's why adding a different quad gives so much flexibility, because in that case one could replace a 3T for a quad. 

[Danibellerika]

11 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

Except 4 quads isn't playing it safe, or is it? a 4 quads FS is currently the world record, and it was even underscored. 

 

I don't know, this talk makes me a little gloomy... as if Yuzu would feel like he can't keep up with the sport and continue to push it forward if there are people who do more quads than him, when in reality these people do less than half of his skating when they're not jumping.

 

Going clean is better for the health, is better for the mind, is better for the performance, which are three things Yuzuru cares a lot about. If he can go clean both SP and FS with 4 quads in the long, and break the +340 barrier, I'm fine with that. 

 

But since pushing the sport forward also means a lot to Yuzu, he will probably try to do 5 quads in the long and still pursue the same kind of consistency. And if we are lucky enough, we're gonna see exactly that.

He can go for 5 and was trying for 5, so now the new safe is 4. And that's 4 of the more "easier" quads too.  That checkpoint has been reached. I don't expect the usual to apply at the Olympics because we've seen historically how these things go.  History isn't necessarily on his side since we haven't had a repeat champ in what would be 66 years at that time.  We don't really know what will happen, but I also am not one to dismiss all possibilities just because I don't like them.  

[katonice]

56 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

 

I am distracted from the gravity of the topic under discussion by these emoticons... 

[Murieleirum]

1 minute ago, axelnojutsu said:

I agree that he's doing more - I just don't think that's being reflected well in the scores right now.
I don't want all quads everything and I more than anything hope for a clean and beautiful performance from Yuzu but I can't help but worry if it'll be enough to win 

 

That's every skater's worry, of course. Every skater builds their BV and program with the objective of getting the highest score. So far, the difference between Yuzu's and the youngster's Base Values has been filled by Yuzu's higher GOE's - in minor part, by Yuzu's higher PCS.

If Yuzu sees that the difference between his BV and theirs will be too big for him to fill the usual way, then he will surely up his tech content. 

 

Honestly tho, it will be fun if Nathan (or other skaters) really attempt a 6-7 quads program... at the Olympics. 

 

I wish him the best, but it could be the most gruesome Olympic splatfest to date. 

[Neenah]

I think Yuzu's goal of consistency is not just about winning. He had lived with the regret of his free at Sochi for years and I think the performance itself in Pyeongchang is as important to him as the gold medal.

 

I only want him to have two performances he is satisfied with even if he didn't win. I don't want him to beat himself up for not being able to perform at his best in the Olympics twice, or have people who criticise him conveniently forget everything he achieved and only remember that he was not clean at the games.

[xeyra]

17 minutes ago, Katt said:

Uhmm a 3 type of quads layout would up their current BV around 5 points, and around 2-3 more points with 4 quad layout, depend on how they backload their jumps. I think 4 quad layout is too much risk for Javi and Patrick at this point since they often make mistake with the quad in 2nd half. 3 quad layout with 4Lo/4F, 4S, 4T is safer, no worry about +REP and less change in their current layout. 

 

Yeah, you're right, plus it would allow them to do two 3T combos. Which is basically what I'm proposing for Yuzu if he adds the 4Lz. And it keeps with their philosophy more, at least with Patrick's. I do think if no changes are made to SP, they might eventually consider risking 4 quads. Javi probably more than Patrick, though, because Patrick will also be adding a second quad to his SP and he'll already struggle with that. So I think a 2-quad SP and 3-quad layout might be more likely for him at this stage. As for Javi, it'll depend on what he thinks he'll need to secure a podium place at Olys. 

 

The season will tell, as it unfolds. 

[daisyjune]

2 hours ago, anyanee said:

Speaking about Mama Hanyu. I have another silly curiosity. Did Mama Hanyu go to Sochi Olym with Yuzu? I'm curious cause I know that she accompanied him in most of competition but when I look at fancam during Sochi, I just found him with Kikuchi san. So I got curious about this. Sorry if it's off topic!!

 

Yes, his Mom went to Sochi. From 25:00 of the bellow clip, Yuzu said he met his Mom and they discussed what went wrong with his free program.

(「どうしてこんなことになった？」　Sorry, there's no English substitution.)　I think his father and sister were also there. The famous story is that, however, they couldn't see their son's medal ceremony up close because JSF didn't arrange special family tickets for his family. The source is from a tabloid magazine, so I don't know if it's true, but I suspect it's true. Hopefully, next year his family will be able to enjoy their son's medal ceremony fully from the family seats!

 

 

[Murieleirum]

1 minute ago, Neenah said:

I think Yuzu's goal of consistency is not just about winning. He had lived with the regret of his free at Soshi for years and I think the performance itself in Pyeongchang is as important to him as the gold medal.

 

I only want him to have two performances he is satisfied with even if he didn't win. I don't want him to beat himself up for not being able to perform at his best in the Olympics twice, or have people who criticise him conveniently forget everything he achieved and only remember that he was not clean at the games.

 

Agreed.

 

And if cleanliness goes up Evgenia like? Judges WILL reward it, I am sure of it. 

3 minutes ago, Danibellerika said:

He can go for 5 and was trying for 5, so now the new safe is 4. And that's 4 of the more "easier" quads too.  That checkpoint has been reached. I don't expect the usual to apply at the Olympics because we've seen historically how these things go.  History isn't necessarily on his side since we haven't had a repeat champ in what would be 66 years at the time.  We don't really know what will happen, but I also am not one to dismiss all possibilities just because I don't like them.  

 

 

Historically, the best skate will win. The best skate can be either the cleanest, or the one with less errors and more tech. We've seen gold medals in both cases. Yuzu has won a gold thanks to "less errors and more tech". Now, I believe he would like to win another gold thanks to the cleanest skate he can be proud of, that can represent his skating to the whole world. For me, he can do that with 4 quads as much as with 5 quads.

[axelnojutsu]

2 minutes ago, katonice said:

I am distracted from the gravity of the topic under discussion by these emoticons... 

I'm loving them 

 

2 minutes ago, Neenah said:

I think Yuzu's goal of consistency is not just about winning. He had lived with the regret of his free at Soshi for years and I think the performance itself in Pyeongchang is as important to him as the gold medal.

 

I only want him to have two performances he is satisfied with even if he didn't win. I don't want him to beat himself up for not being able to perform at his best in the Olympics twice, or have people who criticise him conveniently forget everything he achieved and only remember that he was not clean at the games.

I do really want him to win but yeah him being happy with his performance (as unlikely as he is ever to be completely satisfied with himself) is more important 

[axelsandwich]

At the moment, the quad arms race is taking advantage of a sort of loophole in scoring and it reminds me a little of when we were doing uni entrance exams. Some people memorised a bunch of pre-prepared essays and hoped they'd get a question that they prepared while others took the time to learn their source material in depth. In a short term, the first approach was risky but safer if the question was a predictable one; it's when something goes awry that a strong foundation will show its value. Yuzu and Brian seem to believe in the latter approach and I do too - it's better for longevity and is essentially idealistic 'quality' over a pragmatic 'strategic practicality' approach. The question is if they will be willing to compromise on that belief if it doesn't yield results.  

 

Aren't they implementing the change to GOEs this season? (+/- 5) If so, I think their strategy will depend heavily on how judges treat the new system.

[cucciolo888]

[axelsandwich]

12 minutes ago, daisyjune said:

 

Yes, his Mom went to Sochi. From 25:00 of the bellow clip, Yuzu said he met his Mom and they discussed what went wrong with his free program.

(「どうしてこんなことになった？」　Sorry, there's no English substitution.)　I think his father and sister were also there. The famous story is that, however, they couldn't see their son's medal ceremony up close because JSF didn't arrange special family tickets for his family. The source is from a tabloid magazine, so I don't know if it's true, but I suspect it's true. Hopefully, next year his family will be able to enjoy their son's medal ceremony fully from the family seats!

 

 

LOL this is the most extreme Asian mum reaction ever ('you got 99%? What happened to the other 1%???') except Yuzu feels the same way so they must make an incredible team. I'm lowkey curious about what his sister looks like currently (I know there's a photo of them when they were younger) but that's just me and my fascination with genetics 

[xeyra]

A little bit of an interesting thing. In a recent translation of an interview with one of the creators of Yuri on Ice, they mention they placed the MC's quad combo (4T3T) as the last jumping pass in a SP and that at the time no man was doing a quad combo as the last jumping pass in the SP due to how much stamina that would require. And that usually people remember the last jump, and how more impactful it'd be if it was a quad combo.

 

Cue one season later... in the real world: Chopin 3.0.