General Yuzuru Chat

[Melodie]

From the account @orangesrgd on Twitter. If you are here amongst us satellites, many thanks to you  

 

Anyway, sigh.....

This post has been tagged by yuzuangel as [NEWS].

[rockstaryuzu]

10 hours ago, Paskud said:

How on earth someone can be fast and sloppy at the same time? You need to have some edges to gain speed, especially during StSq filled with required turns.

I know right? I thought it was the dumbest comment I ever read in 27 years of scrolling the internet.

10 hours ago, SitTwizzle said:

It must be said that judges and tech panels cannot see everything. So they have to use shortcuts. (This reminds me an elementary school teacher pretending an 8-year-old pupil was cheating because she could answer immediately any calculus the teacher would ask.)

Artificial intelligence could tell, a minima, every bullet (or call) of every element, step sequence, spins and jumps. And much more in fact.

That's the reason why there's 10 - count 'em, 10! - judges and a tech panel. To make sure there's enough eyes on the ice that they do catch everything.

 

10 hours ago, shanshani said:

I do notice that the speed of Yuzu's turns makes it difficult to see his edges clearly in real time. Sometimes his turns look like they're done on shallow edges to me when I watch at full speed, but when I slow it down (so I can identify the steps and turns--Yuzu's StSq are like super hard mode for step identification because everything happens so quickly), I actually see that his edges are pretty deep and don't have any trouble recognizing the curve he's on. Someone like Jason is a lot easier to "read"  in real time because he does his steps at a slower tempo, which makes it a lot easier to notice his edge quality and evaluate the quality of the turn in general. 

and this is probably the exact thing that cost Yuzu in his scores. Why they can't just give him the benefit of the doubt, I think we know too well.

10 hours ago, Figure_Frenzy said:

 

Yeah, but only if they bring it on the ice. (when it truly counts). How stable is Kolyada now anyway? If Yuzu (which is actually consistent) is perceived by the "media"/"judges" as iNcOnSIsteNT then Kolyada and Shoma are going to be perceived as even much more inconsistent, aren't they? Again, I recognize their capability, but as it is with Yuzu, the media/judges' perception factor also plays a role on how they'd be scored.

 

(I mean, sure, Rusfed might eventually decide to fully back Kolyada come Olympic time (and he performs "consistently", then in this case it would be indeed a more engaging narrative for the gold medal struggle)  but I am not holding my breath for that... Shoma gets full backing from JSF, yeah, but how far does JSF's backing actually go abroad, really?)

Kolyada is way better since his surgery and marriage. It's his first season back after a year off, and he's been looking really good. IMO I think he has what it takes and can bring it when it counts. Shoma is more flighty, but he's not the Olympic silver medalist behind Yuzu for nothing. With Shoma, it'll definitely be about having his mind in the right focus, though.

 

As for fed support, Mishin is not exactly chopped liver, even if Eteri seems to be RsuFed's golden girl right now. I'm sure it's possible for Kolyada to get support if he needs it. He is the best Russian man on the ice right now, anyway, so if RusFed doesn't support him it's going to look mighty strange. As for Shoma, my understanding is JSF supports him to the full extent they're willing to go. IMO JSF just isn't into the international politicking for whatever reason.

 

 

10 hours ago, shanshani said:

I don't think a clean Misha or Shoma would go above a clean Nathan. Maybe they should, but they're all behind him on BV (Misha especially) and aren't going to get any extra judging candies vs Nathan. It is true that based on the current judging, a clean Nathan is untouchable unless Yuzu can successfully upgrade to 5 quads and skate clean. That certainly shouldn't be the case (I don't think a single quad should be enough to make up the difference that should exist between them in components--like, sure, if Sasha Trusova lands 5 quads and her opponents land 1, then give it to her because however behind her components are, they aren't 4 quads behind. But 1 quad difference? That's a gap that should be bridgeable), but realistically it is true.

well, I didn't say they'd beat him all the time, just that I think they have the capability to do it, so a narrative that Nathan is unbeatable doesn't make sense to me at all.

 

10 hours ago, tafattsbarn said:

 

Oh god, i met these types briefly when i was at GP Helsinki in 2018. When they begun with their drivel about me not being a "real" skating fan because i was a Yuzu fan first and foremost, and a recent skating fan (since november/december 2017) on top of it i just straight up bailed. Turned right around and left them mid sentence. Call it rude but i really can't stand those types of people. A bunch of assholes and a waste to have a conversation with (and i'm not gonna stand there and take it while they insult Yuzuru in front of me). 

 

I've had to deal with these types of fans so many times online as a BTS fan (from kpop fans), but i didn't think these types existed in real life if i'm being honest (as i've attended plenty of kpop events and never met one like that). Figure skating fans proved me wrong lol. 

 

In every "fandom'" they're an unbearable bunch. 

YOU need to join us over in The Planet's BTS Fan Club thread.

 

10 hours ago, BWOZWaltz said:

All glitters are not gold. Flow of the time will filter out all the impurities and people will find only the real gold when they look back at these dark days of FS😇 Only the real gold can withstand the test of time. 

 

Nate's consistency has been supported by the external factors which more or less the other skaters do not have. It bothers me particularly that his ss is marked high bc I simply cannot see what the judges are seeing in his ss.

 

  Hide contents

• Skating skills: This mark assesses the skater's command of the blade over the ice, including the ability to skate with power and ease, forwards and backwards, clockwise and counter-clockwise. How acute is the skater's blade to the ice? How clean and clear are the curves over the ice (known as edge quality)? Skating skills are considered to be excellent if the skater moves quickly and easily, and flows over the ice with soft knees and ankles; but they are judged to be poor if the skating is scratchy and noisy, with the skater pushing from their toes rather than from the sides of the blades.

 

These things are clearly not in judges' minds when they are marking his scores. Where do you see soft knees and ankles when landing those jumps? Where?

Okay, that quote directly contradicts what I saw the guy say on Twitter. So, are trainee judges being outright told to ignore the rulebook, or are they being told 'quick is okay but not too quick" ?

8 hours ago, Figure_Frenzy said:

Oh btw, all this "gatekeeping" by other FS fans (who tend to not like Yuzu, not even objectively recognize his accomplishments so far)? That is not gatekeeping, that is straight up gaslighting. Anyone is right to just walk away from that kind of people.

 

As annoying and discouraging gatekeeping can be to newer fans (in whatever fandom you are...), I understand why people do that, and I can appreciate it (to put it loosely) if those gatekeepers were intellectually honest about it and they base it on actual data and knowledge. Those FS fans though, are not -- they are not only making the atmosphere unpleasant for newcomers they also base their opinions on untruths and outright lies.

 

That is not the thing we can let stand (and obviously not under the guise of so-called subjectivity).

Ugh. Gaslighting, gate-keeping...whatever one wants to call it, it's raining on someone's parade when they're just trying to enjoy a hobby. The only 'gatekeeping' I support is gently educating new fans about things they might not know, like when we on the Planet help explain our Planet slang (eg Nessie) to them, stuff like that. The whole 'you're not a real fan unless' BS can take a flying hike.

 

7 hours ago, Sombreuil said:

There is a lot of possessiveness about FS among older, often North American fans who have a tendency to regard it as ‘their’ sport .  Possibly also among Russians, which I’m less aware of because unfortunately I don’t speak the language.  There are also west  European purists.  They all do a lot of annoying things like gate keeping, insisting on western music/ themes unless a western skater is being ‘refreshing’ or ‘innovative’ by using someone else’s cultural music/iconography.  

 

 

 

In my experience, these types of fans tend to be cranky kinds of people who dislike change. They got comfortable in quiet arenas with no competition for tickets or parking spaces and now they're mad that someone else is in on their good thing.
 

Quote

 

One thing that hasn’t been addressed above are the Western Hemisphere fans who take Asian skaters to their hearts then gatekeep their ‘Asian ness ’ - (idk if that is even a word but I drove a long way to attend a funeral today and I’m tired).  For example there were a whole lot of western fans who adored young YH and his lovely Japanese coach who went nuts when he moved to Canada, hated on Parisan, which as far as I can see Japanese fans took to their hearts, and have probably been sniping from the sidelines ever since.  (That’s not to say Japan doesn’t have its own nests of snakes - but that’s a different, more political story).   To them he should have stayed in Japan with his lovely coach rather than manifesting an ambition to do whatever it took to get those jumps and the technique that could take him to the top.  Thin line between love and hate, when the love is the possessive sort that doesn’t take kindly to the object of that affection demonstrating a will of his/ her own and changing the narrative.  

That...just seems crazy to me. Who in their right mind would do this...of course knowing a bit about the more toxic aspects of fandom, I'm also on some level not surprised. There are definitely people out there who just want to freeze Yuzu in amber so that he never changes from the cute little noodle he was before 3/11 occurred. Unreal.

 

5 hours ago, Pammi said:

 

Brian knows what we all know - there is something special about  Yuzuru, something extraordinary.  Brian calls it something on a spiritual level...I have often described it as Yuzuru having a magic about him, he is magical, and whatever that magic is it touches our hearts and our souls, so yeah, pretty much agree with Brian!

This post has been tagged by yuzuangel as [NEWS].

 

4 hours ago, memae said:

 

Brian talking about his dad in the first couple of minutes makes me think of how Jason talks about his dad.

 

No wonder Brian is such a kind and supportive coach. He really has good hands for his athletes to be in.

I think Brian has a lot of affection for his skaters, and Yuzu in particular. Tracy and Ghislain, too. It's what makes TCC so good for so many. Of course it's not a fit for everyone, but there's something to be said for being treated with liking and respect. If Yuzu does decide that his interests lie in remaining in Japan instead of returning to Canada, I think Brian is going to miss him an awful lot.

1 hour ago, yuzuangel said:

 

BTW...sounds like JPN media interviewed a japanese judge, who said he disagreed w/ scoring.

 

Too little too late, but it finally happened.

 

[NEWS]

Wow. If my understanding of things is correct, a retired JSF judge saying those things about Yuzu's scores is the JSF equivalent of picketing and rioting outside ISU headquarters. It must be pretty bad if someone of that stature is going so far as to make public comments.

1 hour ago, lynnidolz said:

Now i read comments from other fs fans that Yuzuru is just trying to get himself relevant with the 4A talk since he is now has nothing to show and has been talking about 4A from a long time now and has still not landed it and making fun of him and dont believe he will able to land  the 4A because of other quads he cannot jump.Argh...why i have to read all this..its like there is no safe place to read about fs besides here

 

Did they read the same interview we did? Because I'm pretty sure Yuzu all but said flat out he doesn't give a tinker's spit about 'releveance' or the scoring circus anymore, just let him do 4A in peace.

 

 

ONE MORE THING:

 

About Yuzu's speed: sit rinkside and try to follow him with your camera and keep him in frame, I dare you. this is something easy to do with all other skaters, but with Yuzu, the only way you're going to manage is if you zoom out and take a wide angle shot that includes the whole rink at once. Even the pro photographers lose him, even Jordan of On Ice Perspectives couldn't keep up with him (watch the SCI PW practise videos, you'll see what I mean).

 

The other TCC skaters can sometimes manage to skate as fast as Yuzu, but not for long.

 

Although I haven't yet seen Nathan live, the impression I get from video is that speed is less of a characteristic of his.

 

----

 

Okay, NOW I'm done

 

sorry for the Wall O' Text.

[Melodie]

14 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

 

Did they read the same interview we did? Because I'm pretty sure Yuzu all but said flat out he doesn't give a tinker's spit about 'releveance' or the scoring circus anymore, just let him do 4A in peace.

Yeah, I mean... he just wants to land that one jump. Why don't they just go and PR the newly crowned WC gold and silver medalists and leave him alone? 

 

PS: That reminds me, apparently many moons ago, when Yuzu was still a kid, someone told him to shut up about discussing his asthma. And then all these media and pressure have at one point driven him to suicidal thoughts. Just how cruel can people be? 

[rockstaryuzu]

2 minutes ago, Melodie said:

Just how cruel can people be? 

I'll assume that's a rhetorical question...people plumb the depths of evil every day. Folks like Yuzu exist to show us there's another way to be.

[Melodie]

19 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

I'll assume that's a rhetorical question...people plumb the depths of evil every day. Folks like Yuzu exist to show us there's another way to be.

It is both a rhetorical question and not, because I'm afraid the worst is yet to come. But anyway, Yuzu seems to be at a much better place mentally and physically now, with his own goal to pursue. So I'm glad  

[YuzuLemonTea]

37 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

That's the reason why there's 10 - count 'em, 10! - judges and a tech panel. To make sure there's enough eyes on the ice that they do catch everything.

You can have 20, heck even 50 judges, and I guarantee you most of them will not call the shallow/inside edge or pre-rotation for the Quad ‘Lutz’ in the women’s section.

[CaroSkate]

1 時間前, lynnidolzさんが言いました:

Now i read comments from other fs fans that Yuzuru is just trying to get himself relevant with the 4A talk since he is now has nothing to show and has been talking about 4A from a long time now and has still not landed it and making fun of him and dont believe he will able to land  the 4A because of other quads he cannot jump.Argh...why i have to read all this..its like there is no safe place to read about fs besides here

How is he not relevant? Following their logic, if the new Worlds Bronze medalist and JNats Champion with 2 clean skates 3 months ago, who is never off podium since 2014, is irrelevant, I wonder how many guys are relevant in men's skating.

 

Those people don't understand why he is still competing as they think that winning should be the only motivation. They don't understand that there can be more in skating than scores and medals. 4A is what he wants right now. Will he land it cleanly in competitions? Who knows? I certainly hope so, but even if he won't, why can't he talk about it when he is asked about his motivation? Do all the skaters who talk about their OGM dream get an OGM? Is it OK to ridicule them if they don't realize the dream?

 

Sorry but that comment really angers me.

[YuzuNekozuu]

43 minutes ago, YuzuLemonTea said:

You can have 20, heck even 50 judges, and I guarantee you most of them will not call the shallow/inside edge or pre-rotation for the Quad ‘Lutz’ in the women’s section.

I'm tired of all the flutzes tbh. and yes even more exhausted to see them having rocket high GOEs.

have to really protect skaters who have correct edges. Extinction is near

[shanshani]

2 hours ago, lynnidolz said:

Now i read comments from other fs fans that Yuzuru is just trying to get himself relevant with the 4A talk since he is now has nothing to show and has been talking about 4A from a long time now and has still not landed it and making fun of him and dont believe he will able to land  the 4A because of other quads he cannot jump.Argh...why i have to read all this..its like there is no safe place to read about fs besides here

honestly, the best policy is to just ignore the idiots. if you get angry about every dumb thing someone says about Yuzu or fs in general, you're just going to be angry all the time. 

 

anyway, did we ever figure out why Yuzu got StSq3 in his SP? I think the problem was with his left foot cluster but I'm unsure and want to check my work lol. also, turns out the rules for StSq aren't as hideously complex as I thought they were (spin rules are worse actually ), but you really have to pay very close attention to determine whether the skater filled all the requirements

[Esopian]

15 hours ago, lynnidolz said:

Regarding the preolympic media narratives...i dont get it why they are still on the the nathan vs yuzu when Yuzu clearly stated that he didn't aim for olympic gold medal this time.Imagine if Yuzu decides not to participate in the Beijing Olympic..or retire before that..what the narratives going to be?

 

15 hours ago, barbara said:

Nathan Chen is athletic and has good, if stiff, jumps.  But that's not reason he beats Yuzu.  It's the biased scoring. Pure and simple.

 

Really agree with these two comments. It would be so awkward for the U.S. media if Yuzu re***** before the Beijing Olympics and they have no narrative to feed anymore.

He's been stating in multiple interviews that he's not set on going to Beijing yet (though he did say in a press conference after the 2018 Olympics that if he was to go to Beijing, then he would aim to win).

 

It feel like each Olympics he participated in, the media puts him some type of rivalry. In Sochi it was Patrick Chan and in Pyeongchang there were multiple contenders but mainly the press fed the Nathan vs Yuzu narrative. 

 

There's been so many rivalries with Yuzu over his skating career and I've wanted to ask this to the forum for a while: who has been your "favorite" rival of Yuzu's? It could be anyone: Javi, Patrick, Machida, Shoma, etc. 

 

 

[Melodie]

16 minutes ago, Esopian said:

 

 

Really agree with these two comments. It would be so awkward for the U.S. media if Yuzu re***** before the Beijing Olympics and they have no narrative to feed anymore.

He's been stating in multiple interviews that he's not set on going to Beijing yet (though he did say in a press conference after the 2018 Olympics that if he was to go to Beijing, then he would aim to win).

 

It feel like each Olympics he participated in, the media puts him some type of rivalry. In Sochi it was Patrick Chan and in Pyeongchang there were multiple contenders but mainly the press fed the Nathan vs Yuzu narrative. 

 

There's been so many rivalries with Yuzu over his skating career and I've wanted to ask this to the forum for a while: who has been your "favorite" rival of Yuzu's? It could be anyone: Javi, Patrick, Machida, Shoma, etc. 

 

 

Based on techniques: Patrick

 

Based on charisma and presence: Javi 

[citrusjunos]

31 minutes ago, Esopian said:

There's been so many rivalries with Yuzu over his skating career and I've wanted to ask this to the forum for a while: who has been your "favorite" rival of Yuzu's? It could be anyone: Javi, Patrick, Machida, Shoma, etc. 

 

 

Javi, if for no other reason than he was a ray of sunshine. He and Yuzu exemplified what rivals should be, respectful, without a need for bitterness that the media really likes to cultivate if they can. Could you imagine what kind of environment TCC would've been if they were anything like Yagudin and Plushenko? Also, they're clear examples of how rivals can push each other to be better: Javi became more focused seeing Yuzu work so hard, and Yuzu became even more motivated from his losses to Javi (and Javi was also the reason he came to TCC in the first place).

 

Anyways, I'll leave this with comments from Javi about Yuzu during Worlds, because it's heartwarming to see how much he respects him even now.

 

 

 

[mmmrazorz]

3 hours ago, shanshani said:

 

 

JSF people really need to start speaking up about the blatant double standard when it comes to scoring. It's not just Yuzu who suffers either--Rika is far less competitive against the Russians than she should be because of how inflated the Russians' scores are. 

Ugh this. I never really understand why JSF is so incompetent when it comes to politic when Japanese people basically fund this sport right now.

[tafattsbarn]

4 hours ago, rockstaryuzu said:

YOU need to join us over in The Planet's BTS Fan Club thread.

 

I was not aware that there was such a thread, but it does sound like a place for me hehe. I shall make my way there later then! 

 

 

 

 

[mmmrazorz]

And now Phil hersh is comparing Yuzu to Captain ahab..i don't think i will survive olympic season propaganda