General Yuzuru Chat

[makebelieveup]

52 minutes ago, Henni147 said:

 

Wow! NDP was used as an EX program and I didn't know? And more than that: he skated it in France at Eric Bompard and with such amazing quality on top?

Thank you so much for the link, @SuzyQ !! This really made my day 

 

 

#Footnote: The opening jump was a quad Toe, right? A TEXTBOOK quad Toe in an EX gala. And two triple Axels right after. And all this back in 2013, when only a handful of skaters could land these jumps in competition. The whole performance was so awesome, definitely the best version of NDP I've seen so far.

I think if he skates to a full program of NDP now the quality would be so much better! Same with Romeo and Juliet 2.0. I think these DW programs didnt do much for him in the past and the choreos were a bit generic, but I think he could bring more details to them now. Thats why even with origin, a program i dont think really fits him, he could still skate very well to it because of the level of skating he has now. He also skated his old programs a lot better at ciontu (but i preferred rj 1.0 original version bc i feel like he performed it better as a 17 yr old)

 

Btw, speaking of him executing impressive elements back then reminds me how much of a scoring circus isu has becoming more and more.

 

considering at the age of 16 he skated to etude with basically similar layout as PW, he got an 82.78 and that was his sb (thats virtually what Zagitova got with triples and no 3a!) While PW got a 101. And okay yes, I agree his skating skills werent on par back then to PW and everything else were lacking in comparison. And okay with Etude Sb his 4T was not good so say he lost a few GOE points. Had he skated etude clean and he would have gotten maybe 88-9 points at judges mercy. But like thats still 13 point gap. But honestly, thats not what Im upset about. 

 

what im actually upset about is compared to the ladies in todays field. If we compare him to Alena's sb sp with a less difficult layout, her sb sp received like what? 85+pts? And thats not to mention the pcs for ladies are already leveled with the coefficient as only .8. So converting it to men's scores, she would have scored about 100pts with just triples! Like wth. Not just her but all the ladies with Ultra c layouts. 

 

im not saying these ladies are not impressive but you could see how crazy scoring is. So the isu is telling me a 16 yr old with 4t and 3a back in 2011/2012 season is about 20 points less impressive than these ladies?

[KitSileya]

3 minutes ago, makebelieveup said:

I think if he skates to a full program of NDP now the quality would be so much better! Same with Romeo and Juliet 2.0. I think these DW programs didnt do much for him in the past and the choreos were a bit generic, but I think he could bring more details to them now. Thats why even with origin, a program i dont think really fits him, he could still skate very well to it because of the level of skating he has now. He also skated his old programs a lot better at ciontu (but i preferred rj 1.0 original version bc i feel like he performed it better as a 17 yr old)

 

Btw, speaking of him executing impressive elements back then reminds me how much of a scoring circus isu has becoming more and more.

 

considering at the age of 16 he skated to etude with basically similar layout as PW, he got an 82.78 and that was his sb. While PW got a 101. And okay yes, I agree his skating skills werent on par back then to PW and everything else were lacking in comparison. And okay with Etude Sb his 4T was not good so say he lost a few GOE points. Had he skated etude clean and he would have gotten maybe 88-9 points at judges mercy. But like thats still 13 point gap. But honestly, thats not what Im upset about. 

 

what im actually upset about is compared to the ladies now who skated. If we compare him to Alena's sb in a sp with a less difficult layout, her sb sp received like what? 85+pts? And thats not to mention the pcs for ladies are already leveled with the coefficient as only .8. So converting it to men's scores, she would have scored about 100pts with just triples! Like wth. Not just her but all the ladies with Ultra c layouts. 

 

im not saying these ladies are not impressive but you could see how crazy scoring is. So the isu is telling me a 16 yr old with 4t and 3a back in 2011/2012 season is about 20 points less impressive than these ladies?

I think scoring is a mess just like the next fanyu, but remember, the GOE is different. Alena can get a lot more points per element because her top GOE is +5, while Yuzu was capped at +3 for the same elements . If I've understood GOE correctly, it adds up to 50% of the base value of the jump - which means that we're not talking 2 points more, but percentages points more. 5 is 166% of 3, after all.

[makebelieveup]

9 minutes ago, KitSileya said:

I think scoring is a mess just like the next fanyu, but remember, the GOE is different. Alena can get a lot more points per element because her top GOE is +5, while Yuzu was capped at +3 for the same elements . If I've understood GOE correctly, it adds up to 50% of the base value of the jump - which means that we're not talking 2 points more, but percentages points more. 5 is 166% of 3, after all.

Even if scoring system was changed, how judges choose to score skaters could basically keep everything similar. if we look at how he was scored with his programs pre 18/19 season and how he was scored now, chopin gets virtually the same scores. 

 

Look at Zagitova who got 82 pts at PC under the +3/-3 system back then with only triple ltzloop. the idea still stands. she got 82 at worlds19 with the same layout.

 

 

[makebelieveup]

btw, on today's topic i woke up feeling so watered. happy that Yuzu is safe and so thankful that he is so thoughtful. I hope he can get much off ice training and rest as possible. Lol he is such a  biased patootie toward Seimei. 

 

 

eta: dont we all love to talk lol i remember we hit 5000 pages just like it was yesterday

[Henni147]

35 minutes ago, makebelieveup said:

I think if he skates to a full program of NDP now the quality would be so much better! Same with Romeo and Juliet 2.0. I think these DW programs didnt do much for him in the past and the choreos were a bit generic, but I think he could bring more details to them now. Thats why even with origin, a program i dont think really fits him, he could still skate very well to it because of the level of skating he has now. He also skated his old programs a lot better at ciontu (but i preferred rj 1.0 original version bc i feel like he performed it better as a 17 yr old)

 

Btw, speaking of him executing impressive elements back then reminds me how much of a scoring circus isu has becoming more and more.

 

considering at the age of 16 he skated to etude with basically similar layout as PW, he got an 82.78 and that was his sb (thats virtually what Zagitova got with triples and no 3a!) While PW got a 101. And okay yes, I agree his skating skills werent on par back then to PW and everything else were lacking in comparison. And okay with Etude Sb his 4T was not good so say he lost a few GOE points. Had he skated etude clean and he would have gotten maybe 88-9 points at judges mercy. But like thats still 13 point gap. But honestly, thats not what Im upset about. 

 

what im actually upset about is compared to the ladies now who skated. If we compare him to Alena's sb in a sp with a less difficult layout, her sb sp received like what? 85+pts? And thats not to mention the pcs for ladies are already leveled with the coefficient as only .8. So converting it to men's scores, she would have scored about 100pts with just triples! Like wth. Not just her but all the ladies with Ultra c layouts. 

 

im not saying these ladies are not impressive but you could see how crazy scoring is. So the isu is telling me a 16 yr old with 4t and 3a back in 2011/2012 season is about 20 points less impressive than these ladies?

 

I get what you mean. I remember the graphic that shows the PCS development of Patrick, Javi, Yuzu, Shoma, Nathan, Jason and Kolyada. Yuzu and Javi both started at the absolute bottom of the graph somewhere in the mid 6s with their PCS in their first senior season. Yuzu needed 2-3 years to reach the low 8s. Today newbie seniors, who get the backing from their influential federations, start in the high 8s or low 9s with their PCS now, although their performance skills are not superior to little Romeo in any way.

 

And the problem with this extreme PCS inflation is:

1. It doesn't motivate young skaters to improve their skating and performance abilities at all. Why changing anything, if I get such stellar scores with my current skills?

2. The truly great artists and mature performers don't get proper reward anymore, because the PCS range ends at 10 and the newbies are right behind or even in front of them with their 9s.

 

EDIT: At the same time the new PCS cap double-punishes skaters who are prone to making mistakes and drags down their PCS even further. I mean: just because you fell on a quad, it doesn't mean that your general skating skills or the composition of your program is worse than in a clean performance. It's just another tool to reward consistent jumpers independent from their skating quality.

 

In other words: the PCS segment got totally devaluated and the judging doesn't make any sense at all. This is such a sad development for the sport. But thankfully, Yuzu doesn't give up on his own values and still works hard on his total package. I'm so grateful for this.

[makebelieveup]

18 minutes ago, Henni147 said:

 

I get what you mean. I remember the graphic that shows the PCS development of Patrick, Javi, Yuzu, Shoma, Nathan, Jason and Kolyada. Yuzu and Javi both started at the absolute bottom of the graph somewhere in the mid 6s with their PCS in their first senior season. Yuzu needed 2-3 years to reach the low 8s. Today newbie seniors, who get the backing from their influential federations, start in the high 8s or low 9s with their PCS now, although their performance skills are not superior to little Romeo in any way.

 

And the problem with this extreme PCS inflation is:

1. It doesn't motivate young skaters to improve their skating and performance abilities at all. Why changing anything, if I get such stellar scores with my current skills?

2. The truly great artists and mature performers don't get proper reward anymore, because the PCS range ends at 10 and the newbies are right behind or even in front of them with their 9s.

 

In other words: the PCS segment got totally devaluated and the judging doesn't make any sense at all. This is such a sad development for the sport. But thankfully, Yuzu doesn't give up on his own values and still works hard on his total package. I'm so grateful for this.

exactly this! And I think its also because judges/feds know these skaters will only get a few dominating seasons so why not maxed out their scores, which isnt a good logic to go by but its what happenning. 

 

and yes, because Yuzu's journey is different from other skaters, he also grows differently in his own ways. And even when the system is as unmotivating to him as it is now, he still finds ways to grow for himself and for us.

[Paskud]

1 hour ago, KitSileya said:

I swear, that smirk looking directly at the camera in Parisienne Walkways just kills me ded every time I see it. It's such a knowing smirk - as in, he knows exactly what he does to us with that sensual program.

kitty smile :3

 

[KitSileya]

1 hour ago, makebelieveup said:

Even if scoring system was changed, how judges choose to score skaters could basically keep everything similar. if we look at how he was scored with his programs pre 18/19 season and how he was scored now, chopin gets virtually the same scores. 

 

Look at Zagitova who got 82 pts at PC under the +3/-3 system back then with only triple ltzloop. the idea still stands. she got 82 at worlds19 with the same layout.

 

 

Yeah, the judges are scoring not based on what's performed on the ice, we totally agree on that. I sincerely believe that Yuzu and Javi drove them to desperation bit by bit (or podium by podium) between 2014 and 2018 . Yuzu because he kept breaking records, and Javi for following him up the podiums despite being from Spain, of all places! Clearly, if they judge fairly and without inflation, the wrong skaters win. And they cannot have that.

[SitTwizzle]

1 hour ago, barbara said:

Lovely - but, as a desert resident with some familiarity with dozens and dozens of blooming cactus, I can say that this is manipulated - there are no deep blue cactus flowers, for starters. Interesting photo tough.... Cactus flowers are extraordinary in their variety and complexity and colors.  But never blue.

Oh! What a scam!

https://laidbackgardener.blog/2017/12/04/how-to-recognize-fake-cactus-flowers/

[Veveco]

But the cacti of planet Hanyu are not restricted by earthly limitations 

[Paskud]

Yuzuru likes blue so I am blue cacti.😤

[SitTwizzle]

1 hour ago, KitSileya said:

I swear, that smirk looking directly at the camera in Parisienne Walkways just kills me ded every time I see it. It's such a knowing smirk - as in, he knows exactly what he does to us with that sensual program.

In a sense he does, but he also does it with a big pinch of salt. I see it as a sort of "let's play seduction", not an "I'm the best, nobody resist me" (which I tend to find insufferable).

He is so kind to "play with us", to introduce a sort of complicity.

[Sombreuil]

Doesn’t matter if the cacti are not real - they capture the mood

 

Speaking of which Olympic channel should be very careful encouraging people to copy these moves - apparently the simple ‘clap for the NHS ‘ on Thursday nights is causing extra A&E

visits - I dread to think what would happen to my joints if I substituted my low level exercise for Yuzuru’s ‘dance’ .🤕

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52506114

 

 

[Paskud]

His power!

 

[Paskud]

He was singing during POTO.