General Yuzuru Chat

[axelsandwich]

10 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

I also doubt any watchdog group activities would prove worthwhile. Rather, I'd suggest fighting antis with facts. Whenever someone spouts a lie, everyone else should reply with the truth. There is such a thing as freedom of speech, so it's hard to shut them up, but we can try drowning them out. Fighting them is no good and there's no reason to stoop to that level. (Also giving any one group power is a bad idea, because as we know, power corrupts. And it's easy for things to get out of control.)

 

IMO, the best thing to do is to stay calm and respond rationally and not let antis get to us. Getting angry never really helped anyone.

Yes, my point is that there's a lot of anti hate/lies being spewed on JP twitter and that's where it's the 'worst' because Yuzu is more likely to see them. Hence how can we engage with JP twitter on a mass scale as intl fans who don't all have Japanese skills (I, for one, don't have the skills to engage constantly) and back up the JP fans already replying with facts (since numbers in a tweet do matter)... is not an easy problem to solve. 

[KatjaThera]

5 minutes ago, Toni said:

 

Yeah, except he also deliberately brought the bullying issue up with Johnny and Plushy in his interviews, making it absolutely clear that he wants people to talk about it. It was a theme he deliberately chose for the third day, when he knew it was being broadcast live around the world and he couldn't be censored then. I think he knew exactly what he was going to say about it and even rehearsed his speach. He's also mentioned it before CiONTU, so there is no way this was just a spur of the moment, private discussion (with thousands of people.) He wants us to actively try to stop people from bullying everyone -- even each other. That's absolutely clear. Just listen to him.

Well, if they wanted to censor the bullying they should have censored the whole Plushy talk, which they didn't. That was totally not the point of the so-called censorship. Also, bullying is a real issue in Japan that is being taken seriously. They would not censor that.

[Toni]

8 minutes ago, kaerb said:

Yes, my point is that there's a lot of anti hate/lies being spewed on JP twitter and that's where it's the 'worst' because Yuzu is more likely to see them. Hence how can we engage with JP twitter on a mass scale as intl fans who don't all have Japanese skills (I, for one, don't have the skills to engage constantly) and back up the JP fans already replying with facts (since numbers in a tweet do matter)... is not an easy problem to solve. 

 

"Nothing easy is worth doing."

[Echuka]

Master class: how to zip with elegance

 

[Fay]

1 minute ago, Echuka said:

Master class: how to zip with elegance

 

Brian could have helped  

[Toni]

5 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

Well, if they wanted to censor the bullying they should have censored the whole Plushy talk, which they didn't. That was totally not the point of the so-called censorship. Also, bullying is a real issue in Japan that is being taken seriously. They would not censor that.

 

Well that's not true. Plushy dodged the question, also, Japanese media and magazines weren't involved in bullying Plushy, Russian ones were, so they didn't care so much.

[ralucutzagy]

3 minutes ago, Echuka said:

Master class: how to zip with elegance

 

Oh, this costume ... it's exquisite ! My second fave! 

[Neenah]

5 minutes ago, Toni said:

 

Yeah, except he also deliberately brought the bullying issue up with Johnny and Plushy in his interviews, making it absolutely clear that he wants people to talk about it. It was a theme he deliberately chose for the third day, when he knew it was being broadcast live around the world and he couldn't be censored then. I think he knew exactly what he was going to say about it and even rehearsed his speach. He's also mentioned it before CiONTU, so there is no way this was just a spur of the moment, private discussion (with thousands of people.) He wants us to actively try to stop people from bullying everyone -- even each other. That's absolutely clear. Just listen to him.

I am sure his goal was to raise awareness not to create an army. I don't think he would appreciate it much if his fans turned into bullies themselves (which could happen easily when emotions are high) 

I personally understood his message differently. I felt that he said it to tell his fans that he is aware of the hate and it does hurt him, but the support and love of the fans helped him get through it. He was thanking the fans in that speech after all.

 

I think that the best thing we can do is to stop the spread of hate and misinformation not just about Yuzu but about everyone and support him  in a positive way (no attacking other skaters). Remember that we are already considered a cult of obsessive fans and any organized action may be (or most likely will) be presented as an organized mob attack and things will only get worse for us and Yuzu. We really need to be careful in our behaviour since we are a target and our actions can be used to hurt Yuzu as well

[wingman]

@Toni: I appreciate you raising this topic, since I did not know about it in the other thread, and did not really dwelved too much on Yuzu's comment (I'll explain a below in a bit) .

@kaerb: I absolutely agree with you: we should work hard as a community to be a forum of love and support, to Yuzu, figure skating and other skaters. It is refreshing to see an online forum without hate - it really restores my belief in humanity. 

On what else we can do: if it is as @Toni pointed out that Yuzu wants us to discuss cyber bullying widely (not just him but the experience of others), then why not start a hashtag? #MeToo has been very successful, on a subject that everyone thought was unchangeable. Why not do a #MeToo for cyber bullying? Especially on JPN twitter. 

 

Cyber bullying is 1) rampant, 2) threatens the Internet, spews hate, makes people irrational and only talks to people of their own view, thereby wrap us up in a perpetual confirmatory bias, 3) induces stress and depression in victims, and 4) we are all victims. 

So why not fight back? Everyone can relate. 

 

Finally - I'd like to point to an attitude that's common so far on cyberbullying: "it's ok, it's how the Internet works, let's just get over it". Imagine saying this to a victim of sexual harrassment, domestic abuse, schoolground abuse; victims of stalkers, hate mails etc... It's clearly unacceptable, but we are all doing it. (I must admit, that's my initial reaction too. I thought: "Poor Yuzu, but that's just the Internet,  and I believe that he is strong enough to overcome it"). Yes, victim consolation is very important (and I always think it should be done first, and continuously). But it's time for us all to hit back. 

 

How about a #getoverit or #it'sjustatroll tag? 

p/s: 6 new replies after I'm done typing this.... what a thread!

[axelsandwich]

3 minutes ago, Toni said:

 

"Nothing easy is worth doing."

Yes...I know that? But logistically, this is a huge ask, with an unclear goal and there are many factors to consider - a 'list' of offenders could easily get out of hand, I don't know who has the time, energy and Japanese skills to seek out/translate/report on the antis constantly but I certainly don't. When this issue was happening, I was being messaged a lot of links to hateful tweets and my twitter followers and friends helped to report them and I even considered if there was something more systematic we could do. but Twitter's reporting system is dubious at times and they will not necessarily take any action, especially for vague nasty comments with no tangible threat or targeted harassment (many of them don't even mention Yuzu by name but it's clear they're talking about him...Twitter won't do anything about that). Frankly I had to step away because my own mental health was making it difficult to deal with. It's definitely not a job for one person. 

 

You seem passionate about the topic, perhaps you can spearhead some initiatives about solutions? I'm sure there are many people interested and willing to help. 

[Toni]

1 minute ago, Neenah said:

I am sure his goal was to raise awareness not to create an army. I don't think he would appreciate it much if his fans turned into bullies themselves (which could happen easily when emotions are high) 

I personally understood his message differently. I felt that he said it to tell his fans that he is aware of the hate and it does hurt him, but the support and love of the fans helped him get through it. He was thanking the fans in that speech after all.

 

I think that the best thing we can do is to stop the spread of hate and misinformation not just about Yuzu but about everyone and support him  in a positive way (no attacking other skaters). Remember that we are already considered a cult of obsessive fans and any organized action may be (or most likely will) be presented as an organized mob attack and things will only get worse for us and Yuzu. We really need to be careful in our behaviour since we are a target and our actions can be used to hurt Yuzu as well

 

Well... I suppose you have a point about immature fans becoming zealots (just different haters) instead of protectors of the innocent... I really hate that there's some truth in that... most haters don't even realize they're haters... I just pray that those of us who know the difference can take action and not remain silent.

[Toni]

5 minutes ago, wingman said:

@Toni: I appreciate you raising this topic, since I did not know about it in the other thread, and did not really dwelved too much on Yuzu's comment (I'll explain a below in a bit) .

@kaerb: I absolutely agree with you: we should work hard as a community to be a forum of love and support, to Yuzu, figure skating and other skaters. It is refreshing to see an online forum without hate - it really restores my belief in humanity. 

On what else we can do: if it is as @Toni pointed out that Yuzu wants us to discuss cyber bullying widely (not just him but the experience of others), then why not start a hashtag? #MeToo has been very successful, on a subject that everyone thought was unchangeable. Why not do a #MeToo for cyber bullying? Especially on JPN twitter. 

 

Cyber bullying is 1) rampant, 2) threatens the Internet, spews hate, makes people irrational and only talks to people of their own view, thereby wrap us up in a perpetual confirmatory bias, 3) induces stress and depression in victims, and 4) we are all victims. 

So why not fight back? Everyone can relate. 

 

Finally - I'd like to point to an attitude that's common so far on cyberbullying: "it's ok, it's how the Internet works, let's just get over it". Imagine saying this to a victim of sexual harrassment, domestic abuse, schoolground abuse; victims of stalkers, hate mails etc... It's clearly unacceptable, but we are all doing it. (I must admit, that's my initial reaction too. I thought: "Poor Yuzu, but that's just the Internet,  and I believe that he is strong enough to overcome it"). Yes, victim consolation is very important (and I always think it should be done first, and continuously). But it's time for us all to hit back. 

 

How about a #getoverit or #it'sjustatroll tag? 

p/s: 6 new replies after I'm done typing this.... what a thread!

 

My goodness! What an excellent idea! I like both your hashtags too. I think Yuzu would be so proud if we started a movement against cyber-bullying in his name. We can also vote with our remotes and our money. Don't watch programs that indulge vicious rumors and shame people publicly. Don't buy magazines and newspaper that do the same. Don't click links to any of their articles on-line. BOYCOTT the sob's. Hit them where it hurts and put all this hate back in the bottle. So long as it makes them money, they'll keep doing it. And people will keep suppressing and censoring the voices of victims if we don't speak out angrily in defense of those victims (By the way, I am a #MeToo)

[wingman]

Add to this: I agree with @Neenah: never fight hate with hate. 

Also to be clear:by "fighting back" I mean to share our stories: of love, hope, hurt, perseverance, desparation, understanding, sympathy, empathy. 

 

If we have journalists here: one effective way to shut the haters is to do a cover story about them. Often times they are hateful because the world hasn't been so kind to them. Once their story has been heard and sympathized with, they can turn into the decent human that is present at our very core. This is also why trolls are so hard to fight: they seem to be some invisible mob, so we can't exercise our sympathy. Let's attach some faces to them. You can do it mentally (ie: relate the trolls to a particular troll you know in person). 

 

Sorry, this is getting OT... 

[tafattsbarn]

1 hour ago, kaerb said:

I hope this is okay to share this here (if sharing is not allowed on this thread, mods feel free to move to another more appropriate venue, I wasn't sure where to best put this) but some friends on twitter and I just started a FS podcast, trying to cover topics not addressed by current FS media, as well as fun stuff by fans and for fans. The first episode is out if you want to take a listen and we're always open to suggestions for topics to talk about etc. 

 

I managed to sneak a little Yuzuru reference in the end  

 

 

 

Thank you for sharing, i really enjoyed it! 

 

18 minutes ago, ralucutzagy said:

Oh, this costume ... it's exquisite ! My second fave! 

 

Mine too, it's so pretty and looks like a painting 

[wingman]

@Toni Yes, #MeToo!

I'm not sure if we should do it under his name though... We can certainly mention in our individual stories that we were inspired by him. But there are plenty of haters of #MeToo and I don't want to randomly associate Yuzu with a movement unless if it's his own explicit initiation.