5 minutes ago, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

So even if LGC wasn't Prince through and through, he sure as hell was able to put his own spin and interpretation into it that's no less rock-starish to me and to most who are truly seeing him. Maybe he's less flamboyant and glam but to me, he exudes a sharper and more masculine coolness than the image prince had projected.

 

it's interesting that you say you found yuzuru to be more masculine, because i personally thought he projected a pretty androgynous image that made him really suited to prince. i'm curious to hear a japanese person's opinion on this stuff accounting for japanese perceptions of gender presentation though, i feel like i'm kind of limited by my own frame of reference.

10 minutes ago, robin said:

 

Just dropping this here without comment 

 

The perfect ending to the lgc season. I looooooove Crazy Swan. And that zusaa is the BEST lgc zusaa. 

Wait, wait!! I get where this whole Yuzu's LGC is restrained comes from!!!

 

It's from the very fact that this is a Short Program of Figure Skating!! You know, there's the whole technical requirement, listing on top of my head:

• One solo triple or quad jump, that is preceded by recognisable steps
• One combination jump, a quad-triple, a quad-double, a triple-triple, or a triple-double
• One 2A or 3A
• No jump type can be repeated except in the combo
• 3 spins, one must be the flying type
• Stsq with different steps, counting toward the level

See, those requirements restrain the skaters, including Yuzu!!

Rock stars do not have those restrain!!! They can do whatever they want on stage, ergo their performances are not restrained!!

5 分, valkyrieさんが言いました:

 

it's interesting that you say you found yuzuru to be more masculine, because i personally thought he projected a pretty androgynous image that made him really suited to prince. i'm curious to hear a japanese person's opinion on this stuff accounting for japanese perceptions of gender presentation though, i feel like i'm kind of limited by my own frame of reference.

 

Yeah I actually found him more masculine than Prince, or rather, I found that the masculinity that he projects in his performances of LGC a sharper one than Prince's. And that part was all him, not Prince. Perspective and taste are interesting things, aren't they?

7 minutes ago, valkyrie said:

 

it's interesting that you say you found yuzuru to be more masculine, because i personally thought he projected a pretty androgynous image that made him really suited to prince. i'm curious to hear a japanese person's opinion on this stuff accounting for japanese perceptions of gender presentation though, i feel like i'm kind of limited by my own frame of reference.

 

I agree with you. I don't think he's particularly convincing in his expression of straight-up masculinity. He's too sharp, slinky, and playful for it, in my opinion. He suits very much the more androgynous style of Prince and kudos to Jeff for bringing it out.

10 minutes ago, valkyrie said:

 

it's interesting that you say you found yuzuru to be more masculine, because i personally thought he projected a pretty androgynous image that made him really suited to prince. i'm curious to hear a japanese person's opinion on this stuff accounting for japanese perceptions of gender presentation though, i feel like i'm kind of limited by my own frame of reference.

There was this very cool Tumblr post about this. Well, not strictly, but about how Yuzu isn't actually taking down gender constructs with his androgyny in the Japanese context because historically in Japanese performance arts, a male artist portraying a role or character or feeling/emotion well enough to be gender-bending, or feminine, was an affirmation of how good they are at their art form, so that gender does not restrain (constrain, maybe? Limit?) their expression. It also comes from how in traditional art forms for a long time, women were not encouraged to perform so some of the best performers did some of the most compelling feminine roles.(I think the blog, which did some serious annotating, also referred to certain words that might mean feminine in one context not being used in the sense we generally associate it with in this particular context, but my brain is woolly right now and I wouldn't want to be quoted.)

 

I'm simplifying dreadfully and not getting the nuances well at all, but I can't find the post now.

 

But since he's not performing for a home audience and he's performing for the world, Yuzu's androgyny - which is a quality that some of the best rockstars share, from Freddie Mercury in his skirt and high heels to David Bowie to Prince - does serve to knock away a few barriers. I think the blog's point was that the effect is there, but it might not be intentional in the context of his culture's history in performance arts. 

12 minutes ago, SparkleSalad said:

 

He pulled that off in what's practically a wedding dress after making everyone weep and talking to a teddy bear. Case closed. 

 

He had us, the arena, our emotions and sanity, our future and our past, our lives and our deaths, our physical and emotional well-beings all in the palm of his hands within those 20 minutes or so from when he enterend until he left the arena

I wasn’t going to get into this whole Prince/rockstar thing, but y’all reminded me of when I saw Prince live a few years ago, which was beyond amazing even though I wasn’t a fan at the time. At the beginning of the show the stage was dark-ish and he came out, just stood at the center of the stage, arms down, palms facing forward and I was riveted. (And then someone came and hung the guitar on him and I loled.) That kind of presence can’t be faked and Yuzu has it. The gravitas of him standing still with his eyes closed at the beginning of Chopin is the same. 

 

Also, considering some videos I’ve seen of Prince performing, I think it’s very considerate of Yuzu not trying to be Prince cuz dear gods.  It would’ve been too leathal.

 

8 分, SparkleSaladさんが言いました:

 

I agree with you. I don't think he's particularly convincing in his expression of straight-up masculinity. He's too sharp, slinky, and playful for it, in my opinion. He suits very much the more androgynous style of Prince and kudos to Jeff for bringing it out.

 

I'm thinking our definition of masculinity is a very different one. I have a...very...broad perspective of it and androgyny is both masculine and feminine to me, not neither. And it's precisely his sharpness and slinkiness here that I find masculine. Like it was brought out into sharper relief by the femininity/fluidity in his movements. It's a nice balance of yin and yang, with the yang being highlighted by the yin.

 

Like for Weir, I think his style is more yin than yang. And Plushenko is the opposite. But they both helped shape Hanyu's style a lot.

 

So, if @eagle thinks it's more restrained, based on where they're coming from, then maybe it's not so far-fetched. I do not agree with it but I would hesitate to outright deny it if we're talking about personal perspectives.

2 minutes ago, cirelle said:

I wasn’t going to get into this whole Prince/rockstar thing, but y’all reminded me of when I saw Prince live a few years ago, which was beyond amazing even though I wasn’t a fan at the time. At the beginning of the show the stage was dark-ish and he came out, just stood at the center of the stage, arms down, palms facing forward and I was riveted. (And then someone came and hung the guitar on him and I loled.) That kind of presence can’t be faked and Yuzu has it. The gravitas of him standing still with his eyes closed at the beginning of Chopin is the same. 

 

Also, considering some videos I’ve seen of Prince performing, I think it’s very considerate of Yuzu not trying to be Prince cuz dear gods.  It would’ve been too leathal.

I've felt like I'd get nosebleed from watching him on a big screen! I'm a wee bit jealous that you got to see him live. What an experience it must've been.

 

I suppose watching Yuzu live is similar in impact in some ways.

2 minutes ago, WinForPooh said:

There was this very cool Tumblr post about this. Well, not strictly, but about how Yuzu isn't actually taking down gender constructs with his androgyny in the Japanese context because historically in Japanese performance arts, a male artist portraying a role or character or feeling/emotion well enough to be gender-bending, or feminine, was an affirmation of how good they are at their art form, so that gender does not restrain their expression. It also comes from how in traditional art forms for a long time, women were not encouraged to perform so some of the best performers did some of the most compelling feminine roles.

 

I'm simplifying dreadfully and not getting the nuances well at all, but I can't find the post now.

 

But since he's not performing for a home audience and he's performing for the world, Yuzu's androgyny - which is a quality that some of the best rockstars share, from Freddie Mercury in his skirt and high heels to David Bowie to Prince - does serve to knock away a few barriers. I think the blog's point was that the effect is there, but it might not be intentional in the context of his culture's history in performance arts. 

 

i actually saw that post too, so i know exactly what you're talking about. it was interesting, though i did feel like it was relying a bit too much on using historical evidence to make conclusions about modern japan, without really looking at popular opinion nowadays. iirc the op of that post wasn't japanese themselves (?) which is why i'd really like to hear a japanese person speak about contemporary views (and how they're informed by the historical tradition) on the topic! 

7 minutes ago, WinForPooh said:

There was this very cool Tumblr post about this. Well, not strictly, but about how Yuzu isn't actually taking down gender constructs with his androgyny in the Japanese context because historically in Japanese performance arts, a male artist portraying a role or character or feeling/emotion well enough to be gender-bending, or feminine, was an affirmation of how good they are at their art form, so that gender does not restrain (constrain, maybe? Limit?) their expression. It also comes from how in traditional art forms for a long time, women were not encouraged to perform so some of the best performers did some of the most compelling feminine roles.(I think the blog, which did some serious annotating, also referred to certain words that might mean feminine in one context not being used in the sense we generally associate it with in this particular context, but my brain is woolly right now and I wouldn't want to be quoted.)

 

I'm simplifying dreadfully and not getting the nuances well at all, but I can't find the post now.

 

But since he's not performing for a home audience and he's performing for the world, Yuzu's androgyny - which is a quality that some of the best rockstars share, from Freddie Mercury in his skirt and high heels to David Bowie to Prince - does serve to knock away a few barriers. I think the blog's point was that the effect is there, but it might not be intentional in the context of his culture's history in performance arts. 

 

http://doramaticbites.tumblr.com/post/171551859613/to-the-japanese-hanyu-may-not-be-gnc

1 minute ago, valkyrie said:

 

i actually saw that post too, so i know exactly what you're talking about. it was interesting, though i did feel like it was relying a bit too much on using historical evidence to make conclusions about modern japan, without really looking at popular opinion nowadays. iirc the op of that post wasn't japanese themselves (?) which is why i'd really like to hear a japanese person speak about contemporary views (and how they're informed by the historical tradition) on the topic! 

 

Yes, it didn't take into account contemporary views, I remember that. For better or for worse, modern art forms (or forms of entertainment) are very different from historical ones.

 

But it was still interesting, a different perspective of what androgyny in performance might mean in different contexts. It did make me think of how in Europe, too, women weren't encouraged to act and historically all the glorious female roles were played by men - and that hasn't drastically impacted how femininity in performance is viewed now. So it would be interesting to read more.

 

(Was the op not Japanese? I don't think I checked!)

 

1 minute ago, Pamigena said:

 

http://doramaticbites.tumblr.com/post/171551859613/to-the-japanese-hanyu-may-not-be-gnc

 

That's the one.  

@valkyrie My woolly brain is mixing up you and @SparkleSalad because sparkle used to be Wakababy.  I can tell between all the different Yuzus just fine, but apparently there's only room in my head for one Wakaba.

15 分, cirelleさんが言いました:

I wasn’t going to get into this whole Prince/rockstar thing, but y’all reminded me of when I saw Prince live a few years ago, which was beyond amazing even though I wasn’t a fan at the time. At the beginning of the show the stage was dark-ish and he came out, just stood at the center of the stage, arms down, palms facing forward and I was riveted. (And then someone came and hung the guitar on him and I loled.) That kind of presence can’t be faked and Yuzu has it. The gravitas of him standing still with his eyes closed at the beginning of Chopin is the same. 

 

Also, considering some videos I’ve seen of Prince performing, I think it’s very considerate of Yuzu not trying to be Prince cuz dear gods.  It would’ve been too leathal.

 

That's it! Whether we find him convincing in his masculinity or not, or whether we find him wildly unrestrained or the opposite, it is his ability to generate polar opinions among those who appreciate him that is a huge part of what makes his skating so appealing, cos it really depends on the person and as such appeals differently depending on where they come from. You don't need to come from one kind of environment to enjoy his style. There's something in there for everybody, but only if you let yourself enjoy it.

 

Because in all our differing opinions, the one thing I'm sure we can all agree on is that he has gravitas. In spades.