Team USA

[Kadova]

On 7/29/2021 at 1:31 PM, Henni147 said:

 

"Now time to walk the talk."

 

Before even addressing the real issue. Why am I even surprised. *sigh*

If Nathan walks the talk, that will address the issue. Talking about the issue is great, acting is better.

[Kadova]

On 7/29/2021 at 9:15 AM, Mary_kyo said:

Well…the way Nick (and his PR team) want to reduce the problem to a “language problem”. As if the problem is not his mindset and how he has extremely benefitted from these skating's homophobic perspectives for years.

You mean Nathan is overscored because he's straight ? 

 

[Guest Mary_kyo]

47 minutes ago, Kadova said:

OK, so not agreeing with you means I'm not a decent person. I let you think about this.

Why don’t u read the thread I linked to u carefully? Don’t make it just about Nathan. This is about a harmful long-lasting mindset in FS (supported by ISU and Nathan unsurprisingly being the poster boy benefitted by it for a long time) that should be discussed and changed, not justified or excused with very poor (homophobic) attempts. 

[Henni147]

45 minutes ago, Kadova said:

In my opinion, so that's worth what it's worth, Javi was trashed because he was coming from a small fed which did not support him at all and no media support at all in his own country. So he was an "easy prey". On the other hand, Nathan is very well supported by his fed and the US media. Though he got trashed by the social media warriors. IMHB, none of them should have been trashed by anyone. I understood Javi words as he was worrying for the gay athletes knowing how homophobic Russian media can be, and I understood Nathan words as he was trying to prove the US homophobic you can be straight and perform in figure skating.

A nice and famous fanyu on twitter who wrote successive messages about the Nathan words shows you need to stop and thing before calling him homophobic:

 

https://twitter.com/Fran_klymydear/status/1419292702777151495?s=20

https://twitter.com/Fran_klymydear/status/1419642980194033667?s=20

https://twitter.com/Fran_klymydear/status/1419930431173152768?s=20

 

I cannot speak for others on this matter, but I want to make clear:

I do not make any assumptions whether Nathan himself is a misogynist or homophobe or not.

 

The key problem is the motivation behind the decisions he makes:

It would be 100% legit to say: "I want to skate to hip hop or wear athletic costumes, because that is my style, my personality and the best way for me to convey my own feelings."

But to choose all these things in the hope to satisfy a group of people with a bigoted world view is immature and very harmful for figure skating as a whole. Particularly because many people in charge share this view and yes, because a majority of conservative judges favors straight and 'masculine' skaters. This is not a secret.

 

Nathan is a three-time world champion and the ISU's poster boy. What is he afraid of? If his friends are unable to appreciate his hard work and effort as a figure skater, what is that friendship worth? What is a "good image" worth if I have to be a puppet of my social surrounding and cannot be true to myself?

Other American skaters like Adam, Jason or Amber are no world champions, but still have the courage to go out and fight these long-lasting prejudices.

 

I do not expect Nathan to run a campaign for LGBTQ rights, but I expect him to represent this sport in a way that it does not spoil the efforts of other skaters who keep on fighting for acceptance, respect and equality. I hope that he will finally grow up, stop hiding behind a facade and show us his confident, true self on the ice. Not what others want him to be. If he does that, I will bow to him.

 

 

But you cannot "walk the talk", when the only issue you see is a problematic choice of words. The problem goes way beyond wording.

[Guest Mary_kyo]

30 minutes ago, Kadova said:

A nice and famous fanyu on twitter who wrote successive messages about the Nathan words shows you need to stop and thing before calling him homophobic

Sorry, it’s not you or any other "famous nice fanyu" who should tell us when to stop lol wtf

[Kadova]

7 hours ago, Mary_kyo said:

Sorry, it’s not you or any other "famous nice fanyu" who should tell us when to stop lol wtf

I quoted Fran as an example of First reaction then second reaction then third reaction to prove the first reaction when discovering something is not always correct and changing mind, even slightly, is not bad. Nothing more. I wish you to think again, I'm not ordering you to change your mind.

As a side note, if Nathan were homophobic, Yuzu would know it and would not love him like he does.

[Kadova]

1 hour ago, Henni147 said:

 

I cannot speak for others on this matter, but I want to make clear:

I do not make any assumptions whether Nathan himself is a misogynist or homophobe or not.

 

The key problem is the motivation behind the decisions he makes:

It would be 100% legit to say: "I want to skate to hip hop or wear athletic costumes, because that is my style, my personality and the best way for me to convey my own feelings."

But to choose all these things in the hope to satisfy a group of people with a bigoted world view is immature and very harmful for figure skating as a whole. Particularly because many people in charge share this view and yes, because a majority of conservative judges favors straight and 'masculine' skaters. This is not a secret.

 

Nathan is a three-time world champion and the ISU's poster boy. What is he afraid of? If his friends are unable to appreciate his hard work and effort as a figure skater, what is that friendship worth? What is a "good image" worth if I have to be a puppet of my social surrounding and cannot be true to myself?

Other American skaters like Adam, Jason or Amber are no world champions, but still have the courage to go out and fight these long-lasting prejudices.

 

I do not expect Nathan to run a campaign for LGBTQ rights, but I expect him to represent this sport in a way that it does not spoil the efforts of other skaters who keep on fighting for acceptance, respect and equality. I hope that he will finally grow up, stop hiding behind a facade and show us his confident, true self on the ice. Not what others want him to be. If he does that, I will bow to him.

 

 

But you cannot "walk the talk", when the only issue you see is a problematic choice of words. The problem goes way beyond wording.

Yes, and it's why his actions will show if he understood the issue or not.

[Guest Mary_kyo]

1 hour ago, Kadova said:

As a side note, if Nathan were homophobic, Yuzu would know it and would not love him like he does.

Please stop taking FS as a fanfiction.

Anyway, this discussion doesn’t go anywhere. You refuse to see the bigger picture:

 

 

I leave this thread, good luck to everyone.  

[yuzuangel]

From their interactions Yuzu is certainly cordial and respectful to Nathan. Yuzu is respectful to everyone? But ... that's about it. I don't know where people get that they "like" each other or "are friends" much less "love"?! Those are strong assumptions. A hug during a competition != friendship.

 

Just wanted to step in and say I hope we can keep this discussion level-headed (even though I understand this may be a hard topic) and remember that just because someone disagrees doesn't automatically mean they are wrong or a bad person. It seems sometimes we are talking about different things (ie explicit vs implicit homophobia).

 

On the one hand I believe Nathan is expressing a lot of internalized toxic beliefs about masculinity and that can be construed as implicit homophobia. And I sympathize with so many others who are sick of how many people in FS share his views. On the other hand I also don't think Nathan means to be homophobic. And I do think he is truly sorry that people felt hurt by his comments... I don't think he is a bad person, and I do think his apology is genuine. But he probably needs some more self awareness / soul searching to understand why his beliefs are harmful, and that kind of understanding isn't going to come in a just couple of days. I hope he eventually takes those steps, but it's possible it won't be until long after he's done with competitive skating.

[Melodie]

 

 

[Fay]

1 hour ago, Melodie said:

 

 

Did you really have to do this, Aljona? 

[Kadova]

On 8/2/2021 at 1:05 AM, Mary_kyo said:

Please stop taking FS as a fanfiction.

Anyway, this discussion doesn’t go anywhere. You refuse to see the bigger picture:

 

 

I leave this thread, good luck to everyone.  

I refuse to see your big picture or you refuse to accept a different opinion? Don't worry, I will stop there with you. I'm happy to disagree and well, we cannot always agree on everything.

[Kadova]

On 8/2/2021 at 5:45 AM, yuzuangel said:

From their interactions Yuzu is certainly cordial and respectful to Nathan. Yuzu is respectful to everyone? But ... that's about it. I don't know where people get that they "like" each other or "are friends" much less "love"?! Those are strong assumptions. A hug during a competition != friendship.

 

Just wanted to step in and say I hope we can keep this discussion level-headed (even though I understand this may be a hard topic) and remember that just because someone disagrees doesn't automatically mean they are wrong or a bad person. It seems sometimes we are talking about different things (ie explicit vs implicit homophobia).

 

On the one hand I believe Nathan is expressing a lot of internalized toxic beliefs about masculinity and that can be construed as implicit homophobia. And I sympathize with so many others who are sick of how many people in FS share his views. On the other hand I also don't think Nathan means to be homophobic. And I do think he is truly sorry that people felt hurt by his comments... I don't think he is a bad person, and I do think his apology is genuine. But he probably needs some more self awareness / soul searching to understand why his beliefs are harmful, and that kind of understanding isn't going to come in a just couple of days. I hope he eventually takes those steps, but it's possible it won't be until long after he's done with competitive skating.

Exactly, what makes me think Yuzu actually likes Nathan, is the smiles he gives him, the shiny eyes....that goes beyond politeness for me I agree it is my opinion and not a proven fact.

I have many friends from different sexual orientation, and I follow figure skating for decades, I'm very well aware of the horrific treatment LGBTQ+ people can get, in figure skating and everywhere else. This is why Javi, Yuzu, Gaby (from P/C) and others support gay and all LGBT skaters openly, and they're 1000% right to do so. Opposing Nathan who decided to prove to all homophobic idiots that straight figure skaters can succeed, which is complete bs in my opinion.

I now have one question if someone can explain this to me:

I can't see Nathan or any straight skater benefitting from the ISU because the said skater is straight. Everyone knows Nathan benefits from the huge support he gets from the US fed, and therefore from the ISU. So he gets a benefit coming originally from his nationality and not a benefit from his sexual orientation.

On the other hand, I am waiting to see if skaters who came out this June will get harsh treatment from the judges next season. I want to believe they won't, the judges better dare not.

[yuzuangel]

57 minutes ago, Kadova said:

Opposing Nathan who decided to prove to all homophobic idiots that straight figure skaters can succeed, which is complete bs in my opinion.

That's the thing though, proving that straight figure skaters can succeed, as if straight figure skaters are unsuccessful in figure skating, is just utter nonsense. If he thinks he is oppressed for being straight, that is delusional at best and a slap in the face at worst to all the non-straight skaters who have been passed over, called slurs, discriminated against, and/or underscored in favor of others. I mean you have Olympic champions throwing homophobic slurs at skaters within the last year, and only a decade ago gay skaters were openly called homophobic slurs on TV. To act like you are suddenly the one oppressed for being straight?? Have we been watching the same sport, Nathan?

 

And I think that is what people are angry about. Not because Nathan's apology was scripted, not because they are nitpicking at his words, not because boohoo he won against our fave.

 

Re. Do skaters get dinged because they came out as LGBT? Obviously there's no rule in the rulebook that says if you are LGBT your elements are worth less. But more than half of your score is about presentation and fed backing, and the fed very clearly backs whoever they think makes the sport look good. And gee whiz, I wonder why they choose to back Evan Lysacek over Johnny Weir etc.

[Guest Mary_kyo]

 

Ok, I came back because of the notification of you quoting me 

2 hours ago, Kadova said:

what makes me think Yuzu actually likes Nathan, is the smiles he gives him, the shiny eyes

 First, Oh god…please. I can’t believe I see this in this forum while discussing such sensitive topic….. This is my main problem in discussing with you because you mix your fantasies with realities. Saying “Nathan was told he was gay, so he wants to prove he is straight” is not an excuse for a guy who trained with Adam, dated Amber….

This is the problem: “what nathan said isn’t just an example of misspeaking. it’s a continuation of what homophobia means within figure skating “

https://twitter.com/pinkbIades/status/1419774775573032960

Anyway, some interesting takes on this for everyone:

 

Honestly, no matter how I look at it, what he said sucked in many different ways. He had no choice but to apologize. But who knows how long it will take him to really change a mindset, if ever....