General Skating Chat

[moonkat]

 

39 minutes ago, monchan said:

Reading the whole thread is so funnyyyy lol. Idk if they are going for "artistry" or cheap art 

 Well, they found Yuzuru's weakness: his noodly arms and relaxed posture.   The power of the US fed isn't surprising, considering the power of the nation itself. Even if figure skating isn't as popular in the US as in other countries, the highly visible Winter Olympics still serve as motivation for powerful figures to influence the sport in the favor of the US.

It might be time for TCC to hold the aesthetically pleasing movement class where students learn to copy the transitional arm movement and body posture of top US skaters

[xeyra]

BTW, I'm not sure the aesthetic arm movement is going to be an official rule. It seems to be more of a common guideline in PCS judging, already being used, that's being informed to new judges trainees. It's the -5/+5 GOE and subsequent rule changes that are going to be officialized at some point, like the -5 for falls, -3 for stepouts, the -1/-2 for ugly tanos (how will judges even judge this!?), etc. 

[Xen]

2 minutes ago, xeyra said:

BTW, I'm not sure the aesthetic arm movement is going to be an official rule. It seems to be more of a common guideline in PCS judging, already being used, that's being informed to new judges trainees. It's the -5/+5 GOE and subsequent rule changes that are going to be officialized at some point, like the -5 for falls, -3 for stepouts, the -1/-2 for ugly tanos (how will judges even judge this!?), etc. 

I think so, the movements are just guidelines. Still waiting to see how the guidelines will be applied and given weight versus more complex footwork. As for the issue with style and Carolina in particular, if they relaxed the corridor judging a bit in ladies, it'd have the same effect- if ladies like Caro get 9.5 in IN and PE and Co for example, and more packed and less fluid programs get only 8.0's in the  same area, even if you give 9.25's in TR, it might not make up the difference. Granted, less artistic skaters might still win on TES alone, but at least it's clear whom the more artistic skater is. It'd also giving growing room for the more "balanced" skaters, which the current system doesn't really do (unless you lowball a bit at the start).

 

[xeyra]

23 minutes ago, Xen said:

I think so, the movements are just guidelines. Still waiting to see how the guidelines will be applied and given weight versus more complex footwork. 

 

 

Right now, they allow for Carolina to have as many PCS as an Alina (though not always Zhenya). As for the men, thankfully there's still some differentiation there, where Javi and Yuzu still get the highest PCS compared to Shoma or Nathan. Whether this will change more next season remains to be seen.

 

BTW, I don't think the new rules are going to be an issue for Yuzu unless he falls a lot or has major errors that will weigh more than in the previous system due to the new GOE intervals. But hopefully he will still get some kind of positive GOE differentiation with his great elements, such as his 3A/4T/4S, compared to others. If not, then I'll have lost any faith still left in this system. 

[Xen]

1 minute ago, xeyra said:

 

Right now, they allow for Carolina to have as many PCS as an Alina (though not always Zhenya). As for the men, thankfully there's still some differentiation there, where Javi and Yuzu still get the highest PCS compared to Shoma or Nathan. Whether this will change more next season remains to be seen.

 

BTW, I don't think the new rules are going to be an issue for Yuzu unless he falls a lot or has major errors that will weigh more than in the previous system due to the new GOE intervals. But hopefully he will still get some kind of positive GOE differentiation with his great elements, such as his 3A/4T/4S, compared to others. If not, then I'll have lost any faith still left in this system. 

Well Yuzu did say he plans to stay on top regardless of system changes.

ISU: *changes rules*

Yuzu: hmm, alright, I accept your challenge! *goes out and stays on top*

ISU: *changes more rules*

Yuzu: *continues to break more rules*

You know you are the GOAT when the system can't contain your rule-breaking ways.

[Murieleirum]

26 minutes ago, Xen said:

Well Yuzu did say he plans to stay on top regardless of system changes.

ISU: *changes rules*

Yuzu: hmm, alright, I accept your challenge! *goes out and stays on top*

ISU: *changes more rules*

Yuzu: *continues to break more rules*

You know you are the GOAT when the system can't contain your rule-breaking ways.

 

Yuzu reminding ISU that you skate with your feet, not your flapping arms.

Also: I can do crossovers. AND flap my arms. Do I get a pass for Olys too?

[meoima]

2 hours ago, WinForPooh said:

But the US ladies don't really have the jumps either right now, so... (One of the juniors at Worlds this time can do about a million 3Ts in a row but they're all tanoed and muscled. Is there an anti-tano guideline, too?)

Yes the thread did mention ugly arms over head will get deduction. I am sure they won’t use “ugly” in the final version but some different wording.

[meoima]

1 minute ago, Murieleirum said:

 

Yuzu reminding ISU that you skate with your feet, not your flapping arms.

Also: I can do crossovers. AND flap my arms. Do I get a pass for Olys too?

Lol no they’re looking for Carolina’s quality of arm movements not flappy bird moves lol. 

[Murieleirum]

5 minutes ago, meoima said:

Lol no they’re looking for Carolina’s quality of arm movements not flappy bird moves lol. 

 

I still don't think that's Transitions though. I love Carolina's skating, but if sport is about evolution and doing always more, I don't see why quality arm movements should be regarded as something they're not. You already have 3 Components that judge them: CO, PE, IN. 

[meoima]

5 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

I still don't think that's Transitions though. I love Carolina's skating, but if sport is about evolution and doing always more, I don't see why quality arm movements should be regarded as something they're not. You already have 3 Components that judge them: CO, PE, IN. 

Yes I know but that’s how the judges have been doing honestly. They consider upper body movements as transitions too. I remember someone on Twitter even said “Look at Daisuke Takahashi shaking his head and closing his eyes during skating, that’s really difficult.” 

Lol I have no comment.

[Xen]

Just now, meoima said:

Yes I know but that’s how the judges have been doing honestly. They consider upper body movements as transitions too. I remember someone on Twitter even said “Look at Daisuke Takahashi shaking his head and closing his eyes during skating, that’s really difficult.” 

Lol I have no comment.

Wow, I close my eyes when doing scratch spins, do I get bonus points on GOE?

*sorry, can't help but snapping at this*

[meoima]

3 minutes ago, Xen said:

Wow, I close my eyes when doing scratch spins, do I get bonus points on GOE?

*sorry, can't help but snapping at this*

Also if you look at they’re trying to reward more 2 foot skating with upper body movements, it’s like a tool to score skating who have less packed transitions but good posture and hands as good as the Russian girls who have packed transitions. We might see Osmond same PCS as Medvedeva.

[monchan]

i really cant wait to see how a program that fully manipulates the new scoring system would look like. putting score aside, lets see if it looks more aesthetics/beautiful to common audience than progs under current system. Ofc beauty is in the eyes of the beholders but u dont even need to know skating skill to see that Hanyu's jump is 'prettier' than nathan's or boyang's when its well-executed right? 

At least from icenetwork articles, that seems like what isu is aiming for w this new rule change. 

[OonsieHui]

I'm mad. Anyone else mad? Anyone else pissed? 

 

You do realise with the *judges can judge PCS off official practices" all that's going to happen is that official practices will become a pre-competition competition?? Skaters will start doing a FULL and actually go for it run through. Essentially doing double the amount of programmes per competition ..... 

[wombat-poodle]

4 minutes ago, OonsieHui said:

I'm mad. Anyone else mad? Anyone else pissed? 

 

 

Me. ):

 

I don't think the "judges can judge PCS off official practices" will make official practices a pre-comp comp.

 

^{What I think is that this rule is a thinly veiled excuse for judge's scores being different from what the skaters actually put out on the ice. So even if skater X from Big Fed Y splats and pops, they can get a high score because they, apparently, demonstrated a high level of skill in the OP. It's a fallback to make sure the anointed one doesn't ever bomb out of contention. <-- My *suspicion* only, not sure if it's true.}

 

 

Edit to add: Well if they ever put this ridiculous rule into practice I do hope they will start rewarding Yuzu for his crazy practice combos like 4T-1Lo-3S-3S-3S. He didn't land that 4T-1Lo-3S in SEIMEI but this practice combo is so much more impressive, right?????