[Podcast][Translation] Kiss&Cry Ep. 1 - A figure skating podcast by Massimiliano Ambesi

[SSS]

8 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

Yuzuru Hanyu reached 97,92%

2 and 7 WOW magic number... I should add to my post lol

[SSS]

7 hours ago, Neenah said:

Thank you @Murieleirum for the translation 

 

It is not the 30% comment that makes me wonder about his sources, but what he said about the SP. How did he know that Yuzu is practicing both the 4L and 4Lz, this is a very specific scenario that none of us even considered and we discuss everything and anything Yuzu 

 

 

i thought I saw it in skating thread?

 

I LOVE YOU MAX! Love you @Murieleirumfor incredible translation

[Murieleirum]

3 minutes ago, SSS said:

i thought I saw it in skating thread?

 

I LOVE YOU MAX! Love you @Murieleirumfor incredible translation

 

I love Max (what balls of steel does that man have!) and I love this forum where I can share the love for amazing people with amazing people 

[SparkleSalad]

6 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

To me it seems like such a simple solution, I don't know if anyone will realize it, maybe someone will listen to this podcast, someone will get angry, will feel hurt in their pride, and say "who the fuck is this Mister Ambesi and what does he know about these things?", but I invite the Italian executives to confront me, me alone, against 10 of them, on the numbers of the last 10 years of figure skating. Let's see who accepts the challenge, to prove what has to change in the future, with numbers at hand. Maybe they will agree with me, and we will agree that 'Italians do it better', and everything will be fine.

 

How did you manage to hear anything said after that mic drop?  He's wonderful. How I wish I'd leart Italian just to hear his commentary live. 

 

Thank you again for sharing this amazing ranting Max with us all! 

[Murieleirum]

38 minutes ago, SparkleSalad said:

 

How did you manage to hear anything said after that mic drop?  He's wonderful. How I wish I'd leart Italian just to hear his commentary live. 

 

Thank you again for sharing this amazing ranting Max with us all! 

 

I didn't hear anything after that actually, my hearing was literally BURNED like the last ISU officials who managed to get to the end of the podcast without spontaneously melting away in shame and kuyashii. 

No, really, that's my favourite part in all the episode. He's too cool. And so damn right. 

[axelsandwich]

Thank you for such a comprehensive translation! Max has so much to say but he's so on point for so much of it (I'm also laughing at the frequent shade being thrown). I guess the only downside is that it makes me angry that the ISU aren't listening to him T__T

 

I loved his very pertinent observation that a skater's skills are developed by the competition around him - ie. implying Plushenko had the innate ability to achieve more types of jumps but because his competition was focused on skating skills and artistry, never managed to develop them further because he didn't need to. In a way, Yuzu skating at the tail end of the 'artistry era' (ruled by Patrick) and having to 'raise the technical bar/norm' to beat that allowed him to achieve both. Once this new technical bar settles, we may see a swing back into artistry but it will be awhile before that happens.

[Yoa]

9 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

The difference is huge. Huge.

9 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

then theoretically there would be the
3Flip, which could become something else, though, for example 3Lutz.

with 3Lz I am like "will he pop, or will he not, that is the question". In 3F we trust 

 

10 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

In his head, that jump has to be either a Lutz or a Loop; in fact, in training, he tries two different Short Programs: one
with the Loop, and one with the Lutz.

Interesting... I wonder if it's true or is it just Max's guess. We know that Yuzu's good 4Lo will get 2-3 goe from the judges but we know almost nothing about his 4lz. 

 

[katonice]

Thanks @Murieleirum for these translations! 

 

Max tells it like it is, and says what everyone has been thinking all this time. I really hope this podcast spreads, and that the right people hear it.

 

It's great that someone like him who has the platform and credibility, and being part of the skating community himself, is saying these things aloud. As it is, the ISU is just mostly preferring to ignore what the fans are saying, and are making plans and decisions based solely on their version of things.

[beki]

As a US fan, I was really struck with his words on Jason Brown and Max Aaron. Well, I agree 100%. But I could see some heads on the other forum exploding

[Xen]

9 minutes ago, beki said:

As a US fan, I was really struck with his words on Jason Brown and Max Aaron. Well, I agree 100%. But I could see some heads on the other forum exploding

Nah, I think said other Forum does recognize the difference between Jason and Max's skating. But Ambesi here doesn't say anything about Adam Rippon or Josh Farris. He's also very pro Patrick, so I think the other forum will also like him. =)

 

But I strongly agree with Max regarding the judging corridor syndrome that is going on for PCS. Judges really need to look at the feet, which they're kind of ignoring. If they actually fixed that issue, we'd see a bigger score difference between the more artistic skaters and athletic skaters (Jason vs Nathan), and some of the artistic guys could overtake the athletic guys, which could give us interesting results. The bigger question I have though, is why does the score have to be around 50% atheletic and 50% artistic? No, seriously. We know PCS is judged on a 100  point system, is it not enough to say guy X got 98/100 points so he's artistic too? Why do we have to judge artistic or not based on how much of guy X's total score came from PCS?

[beki]

Idk, you'd be surprised, in the American men's thread the sentiment that quad points are the only points that matter pops up frequently. And I'm thinking, if Jason Brown's skating is good enough to inspire our lord and savior Yuzuru Hanyu, it should be good enough for you too! Then again they don't worship in our church...

[xeyra]

34 minutes ago, Xen said:

But I strongly agree with Max regarding the judging corridor syndrome that is going on for PCS. Judges really need to look at the feet, which they're kind of ignoring. If they actually fixed that issue, we'd see a bigger score difference between the more artistic skaters and athletic skaters (Jason vs Nathan), and some of the artistic guys could overtake the athletic guys, which could give us interesting results. The bigger question I have though, is why does the score have to be around 50% atheletic and 50% artistic? No, seriously. We know PCS is judged on a 100  point system, is it not enough to say guy X got 98/100 points so he's artistic too? Why do we have to judge artistic or not based on how much of guy X's total score came from PCS?

 

I guess because the original system wanted to keep a balance between tech and components, hence it was designed with that 50-50 in mind. But when you think about it, PCS is not inherently 100% artistic since two of the components (Skating Skills and Transitions) are technical marks. In fact, in the end, within those ideal 50% of a total score in PCS, only 30% are actually 'artistic' scores. 

[Xen]

1 hour ago, beki said:

Idk, you'd be surprised, in the American men's thread the sentiment that quad points are the only points that matter pops up frequently. And I'm thinking, if Jason Brown's skating is good enough to inspire our lord and savior Yuzuru Hanyu, it should be good enough for you too! Then again they don't worship in our church...

I actually find that trend in US men's skating slightly disturbing. If you think about it, the US men's skaters who had done well, such as Paul Wylie, Todd Eldridge had an interesting combination of technique and artistry. However ever since US men tried to go toe-to-toe with Yagudin and Plushenko, I think the technical has been over-emphasized, so men with good artistry tend to be undervalued (ie Weir, Brown, etc). It's an odd trend, especially if you consider that Yuzuru, Patrick and Daisuke were leading the field up to Sochi, and now it's Yuzuru, Javi and Shoma leading the field.

[Murieleirum]

9 hours ago, kaerb said:

Thank you for such a comprehensive translation! Max has so much to say but he's so on point for so much of it (I'm also laughing at the frequent shade being thrown). I guess the only downside is that it makes me angry that the ISU aren't listening to him T__T

 

There are some ISU Italian officials that know him well, I'm sure of it. Some of them comment figure skating on RAI. The question is: will their conscience hold fort and refuse to be touched by Max, or will they take a step back and help him help them? 

 

9 hours ago, Yoa said:

Interesting... I wonder if it's true or is it just Max's guess. We know that Yuzu's good 4Lo will get 2-3 goe from the judges but we know almost nothing about his 4lz. 

 

He never speaks about his informants, but he's very careful to say when something is a rumor or it's a fact. So I bet he already saw that beautifully landed 4Lz that we all are craving like air 

2 hours ago, Xen said:

But I strongly agree with Max regarding the judging corridor syndrome that is going on for PCS. Judges really need to look at the feet, which they're kind of ignoring. If they actually fixed that issue, we'd see a bigger score difference between the more artistic skaters and athletic skaters (Jason vs Nathan), and some of the artistic guys could overtake the athletic guys, which could give us interesting results.

 

This reminds me of the battle between Patrick and Yuzuru. Yuzuru had higher tech than Patrick, but he didn't reach his PCS right away. Not at all, actually. He stayed behind those even in the Olympics. In the Olympic year, Yuzuru was twice below the 8 and almost always below the 9, if I remember correctly. And his Skating Skills, Transitions and Artistic Components weren't worse than some of the rewarded athletes now. Actually, some items were already better. So, Max is damn right when he says that things changed when judges lost orientation and started rewarding certain skaters with inflated PCS that didn't correspond reality, and then couldn't go back anymore. And now it's like... they can't and don't want to admit they were wrong?

[wombat-poodle]

Actually, I don't think Max has been the only one to talk about raising the PCS coefficient in order to balance out TES and PCS. This blog (https://fuckyeahdearlybeloved.tumblr.com/post/165305764611/i-think-the-isu-wants-to-kill-the-figure-skating) mentions it too, and crunches some numbers to show that this is actually a viable solution. I mostly support the idea as well, but only if judges are better trained and subject to some sort of accountability system, because the risk with a higher coefficient is that there will be lot more room for manipulation. Sometimes I'm just appalled at how some layman fans are more knowledgeable and logical than ISU judges and specialists themselves.